Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[xd_1771]

For reference, median monthly parking rates in Vancouver are actually behind four other Canadian cities. Heck, in 2004 the median cost was just $140, about half as much as it was in 2012. The big reason we're getting less cars into Vancouver is because affordable but competitive transit alternatives have been built. That 20% reduction value I quoted is between 1996 and 2006.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

And with the cost of gas going up the cost of using an automobile won't peak until the lifetime cost of gas-operated vehicles exceeds that of electric vehicles.

It already does. Lower maintenance combined with fuel savings already offsets the costs with about a 6% discount rate according to my excel charts. Most places it doesn't, but BC has cheap electricity and expensive gas. I also chucked in CO² emissions, but the cost isn't significant at $30/t.

I have an excel sheet if you would like.

Also, I think parking rates jumped significantly with the PST/HST changeover. A quick search says the jump was 21%. I would imagine that probably offset any drop in price from lagging demand.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by crazytown

Why not make the HOV lanes during rush hour - BUS ONLY lanes? Would that not help in the short term until ALRT is built?

Originally Posted by DKaz

That's what they have right now. Bus only lanes during rush hour.

It's the right hand turns that still mess it up.

[st7860]

I was reading up on the portland rail system and i thought it was amusing - ok so they have a decent number of light rail lines but.... trains come only every 15 minutes.

http://trimet.org/max/

Nothing comes close to skytrain (as little as 80 seconds apart) lol

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by st7860

I was reading up on the portland rail system and i thought it was amusing - ok so they have a decent number of light rail lines but.... trains come only every 15 minutes.

http://trimet.org/max/

Nothing comes close to skytrain (as little as 80 seconds apart) lol

it's 17 minutes off peak and not even FTN level

[st7860]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

it's 17 minutes off peak and not even FTN level

I don't live very close to Skytrain. Its a 10 minute walk to two skytrain stations. However, I prefer it that way, because when I get to the station, I know that I don't have to run for it. In oregon it seems that there are far more lines so more people would live close to one, but the frequency between trains there is kind of sad.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by st7860

I don't live very close to Skytrain. Its a 10 minute walk to two skytrain stations.

Those two statements are contradictory...

[osirisboy]

lol its not contradictory if you think a 10 minute walk is a long time

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

lol its not contradictory if you think a 10 minute walk is a long time

It's not, though. 10 minute walk is 800-1000m, that's really not far.

[Alon]

I like 1.1 km from where the Arbutus station would be, and this is far enough that the subway wouldn't save me any time over the 84, in principle. In practice the subway would be much more frequent off-peak and wouldn't have rush hour pass-ups, so door-to-class trip times would drop, but that's a matter of operating costs and capacity mainly.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by Jebby

It's not, though. 10 minute walk is 800-1000m, that's really not far.

Yes I know. I don't think it's far. I was just saying that maybe for st1760 it is. It's a bit relative. I mean if the guy had no legs it might be considered very far lol

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Yes I know. I don't think it's far. I was just saying that maybe for st1760 it is. It's a bit relative. I mean if the guy had no legs it might be considered very far lol

He'd probably have an electric wheelchair

[OhioGuy]

This news piece was aired at the end of February:

GlobalTV BC: Broadway line Skytrain fight [VIDEO]

[Rico]

Seems Edmonton is getting funding for their next LRT line. 1.8 Billion for a 13.2km low floor LRT line expected to get 28,000 boardings on opening. How can something with economics like this get funded while Broadway does not? I am not really critical of the Edmonton project per say, it is just the Broadway line provides a much much greater economic justification (any of the final 3 options) and we still are not building it.

[nname]

Easy.. no one want to pay for it here.

In Edmonton, the city approved 800M budget from general fund, government of Canada gave 250M, so the province and private sector would pick up the rest of the 950M. The ETS would just have to operate the line and not having to pay for anything.

Meanwhile, in Vancouver:
- The city don't want property tax increase (ie. they'll contribute $0)
- The province try to pay as little as they can, and leave a funding gap for someone to fill in, or the project won't get built
- Everyone expect TransLink to magically come up with the money for the rest through efficiencies
- Any tax increase from TransLink would labelled explicitly as "paying for xxxx line", so many people protest against it if they don't benefit from it - so it won't get approved by the province

If Vancouver is in the same playing field as rest of Canada, then the province would have to pay at least three times as much (given the ratio of population in the province), and the city would have to contribute much much more through property tax increase...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by nname

The city don't want property tax increase (ie. they'll contribute $0)

Let's not forget that the municipalities, including Vancouver, voted in favour of a property tax increase, contingent on negotiations with the province to come up with other revenue sources as well. In other words, the cities said: "we'll contribute if you contribute".

When the province backed out, the mayors withdrew their support. What other leverage do they have? If the province comes back to the table then I have no doubt that the mayors would reconsider.

IMHO it's really the province that's been the roadblock, not the cities.

[nname]

I thought the property tax would just temporary. It would be in place for 2 years if no alternative funding source is found. If the funding source is found, then no property tax will be collected.

[officedweller]

The property tax increase was supposed to be a temporary stop gap measure until a more sustainable source of funding could be found.
Note that the property tax share would have gone towards the operating budget - not capital costs.

So down the line - Vancouver is demanding construction of a Broadway Line (and all the economic spinoffs and tech industry benefits it would bring), but are not pitching in (even temporarily) for operating costs of the current system.

So - there's no reason to think that if the Broadway Line is built that Vancouver or the other municipalities will pitch in in future to fund the operating costs of the expanded system.

Ultimately, it adds up to the municipalities having their hands out requesting more infrastructure, but closing their wallets on funding the system and those expansions. They want to preserve property tax revenue to pay for their own municipal pet projects - they don't think of transit being a municipal project (like in Edmonton or Toronto where transit is a municipal responsibility and the municipalities themselves pitch in for system infrastructure) - here, it's a regional responsibility - so each municipality wants to pawn off responsibility to someone else (i.e, drivers (gas tax, parking tax), consumers (sales tax)) rather than using its own property tax revenues (where increased property taxes could hit them come election time, as opposed to gas tax, etc. that can be blamed at the regional level (i.e. TransLink)). Politics...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The property tax increase was supposed to be a temporary stop gap measure until a more sustainable source of funding could be found.

There's no saying whether or not the mayors might have agreed to make the property tax increase permanent as part of a a new funding deal. Unfortunately, the province backed out of the negotiations. The ball's in their court as far as I'm concerned...

[nname]

They are not. I think they made it explicitly clear on whatever they signed back then...