Rideau Centre Expansion | Completed

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

What could be nice on the 4th level/rooftop would be a whole bunch of full service restaurants with indoor/outdoor access. I can imagine a half-dozen interconnected restaurant pavilions up there with patios, kind of like a mini-village. The Westin could also join in with an entrance and one of their eateries. I think it would really liven up that roof garden and put it to better use. There will definitely be demand downtown for more the well advertised big restaurant chains mostly found in the suburbs, like Montana's, Jack Astor"s, TGIF, Chili's, etc. and if you put 6 or so of these in one spot it would be a guaranteed draw.

hmmm...that would be like Deja Vu...maybe we weren't ready for it the last time?

[eternallyme]

What is the square footage of the current 4th floor theatres? They could probably put about 30 stores up there, and perhaps an outdoor connection to the old Sears store as well (I don't think they have a common wall though).

[Shalaby]

'Unique' tenant needed for Rideau Centre - Ottawa Business Journal

The theatre is one of the only tenants on the shopping centre’s fourth floor, meaning people have to go out of their way to get there.

“I crave something unique for downtown Ottawa and if there was another reason for me to go to the Rideau Centre as opposed to just shop, I’d probably go there more often,” said Mr. Holmes.

Ouu what about a Dave & Busters?!

Another market watcher feels the space could be used for retail if the Rideau Centre finds the right tenant.

$10 says Mark read this thread

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Shalaby

'Unique' tenant needed for Rideau Centre - Ottawa Business Journal



Ouu what about a Dave & Busters?!



$10 says Mark read this thread

I looked on Google Earth, and the theatre and the old Sears/future Nordstrom do NOT have a common wall on the 4th floor, and the food court would be on the 2nd floor. Some options:

1) Connect them indoors, by constructing a new 4th floor of retail (then what do you have like, 300 stores in total with two expansions? Who knows what stores could find their way into Ottawa if the Rideau Centre expanded all the way to 300 stores!).

2) Leave the space alone, but repurpose it for outdoor "sidewalk sales" on the rooftop outdoors. Likely would need a new 4th floor entrance on the Nordstrom side as well to maintain connections.

3) Move a restaurant (or a combination with entertainment options) there. Perhaps combined with a rooftop patio?

Office space would be a total waste of space in some of the most prized retail space in Ottawa (and all of Canada!).

BTW, I also think the pathway between the DND and the mall beneath the Mackenzie King Bridge (2nd floor) needs significant improvements. With that leading into the food court, that would be a good opportunity - perhaps some quick food carts to attract employees. Closing the dangerous at-grade pedestrian crossing (forcing those crossing the bridge to go underneatth) would also help a lot.

[J.OT13]

Do you guy's remember when CF hinted at a residential component? That might be there spot (with spill over in the parking lot/expansion area).

So, to sum up, if not a restaurant or club of sorts (my vote), it might be reserved for an office/ or condo/ or hotel tower. If it's office space, I will be upset considering the potential the Ogilvy had for it on the 4th and 5th floors.

[constructivism]

I don't think that space could be utilized for a tower, typically shearwalls run from ground level to their required maximum height. Introducing shearwalls into an existing structure may introduce limitations on use.

That being said, the space could be a used as a component of a future tower ie. amenity areas.

However, bassed off drawings for the site, it does not appear that a tower, whether residential/commercial/hotel, is under consideration.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

What is the square footage of the current 4th floor theatres? They could probably put about 30 stores up there, and perhaps an outdoor connection to the old Sears store as well (I don't think they have a common wall though).

The theatre itself is about 15000 square feet (so big but not department store massive). There is also a fair amount of mall space outside the theatres that something more could potentially be done as well as the outdoor terrace.

[Shalaby]

Originally Posted by c_speed3108

The theatre itself is about 15000 square feet (so big but not department store massive). There is also a fair amount of mall space outside the theatres that something more could potentially be done as well as the outdoor terrace.

I just came back here to say the more I think about it, the more I wish they would consider moving the food court up there. The eaton centre's food court is on it's own level accessible by escalator.

Although I didn't realize the space was only around 15000 sqft, which I suppose would be too small.

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by Shalaby

I just came back here to say the more I think about it, the more I wish they would consider moving the food court up there. The eaton centre's food court is on it's own level accessible by escalator.

Although I didn't realize the space was only around 15000 sqft, which I suppose would be too small.

The mall addition will basically starts against the side wall of the theatre (but a floor below). I don't think it would be a huge stretch to expand that level out over the addiction if they really wanted to during the mall addiction.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by Harley613

hmmm...that would be like Deja Vu...maybe we weren't ready for it the last time?

Not sure why you would bring up the old Market Mall as a comparative example. It was a half-baked development with poorly advertised mediocre restaurants that were windowless. It might have worked if the building extended all the way to George with a central atrium and if they had integrated one of the buildings mid-block so it had third entrance facing the market itself. The upstairs of the mall was a dead end, there was no way they could get foot traffic to go up there without a strong anchor. If the Rideau Centre were to revamp their 4th floor, they would need to put at least two or more ways to get up there, as shoppers really don't like to back track. This is why most newer malls have moved away from the old "dumbbell" format.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by Shalaby

I just came back here to say the more I think about it, the more I wish they would consider moving the food court up there. The eaton centre's food court is on it's own level accessible by escalator.

Although I didn't realize the space was only around 15000 sqft, which I suppose would be too small.

I agree 100%. I too would prefer a food court up there on its own level, with a glass ceiling to boot for natural light and added cool-ness effect. Kind of like in downtown Warsaw at the Zlote Tarasy, food court is on the top level of the mall, which since its opening is one of the city's landmarks thanks to the amazing wavy/bubbly glass roof, exterior view:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5a2k9Lagf_0/T5...6-11_-_005_-_Warszawa_-_Zlote_Tarasy.jpg
Interior views:
http://www.olesku.pl/2010/06/zote-tarasy-interior-in-evening.html#.UUDW-qFJD5M


Also, what is the size of the current Rideau Centre food court?

[c_speed3108]

I suspect the old food court isn't tons bigger than that. Probably 30000-35000 (from memory so I might be way off) Rideau doesn't have a terribly large food court or even a large number of food court stalls. I gather the idea is to expand that number.

The old Sears was 240000 sqft. Nordstrom is taking the top two floors which are about 157000 sqft (according to Metro and Obj). This leaves about 83000 on the first floor.

[Shalaby]

Originally Posted by Radster

I agree 100%. I too would prefer a food court up there on its own level, with a glass ceiling to boot for natural light and added cool-ness effect. Kind of like in downtown Warsaw at the Zlote Tarasy, food court is on the top level of the mall, which since its opening is one of the city's landmarks thanks to the amazing wavy/bubbly glass roof, exterior view:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-5a2k9Lagf_0/T5...6-11_-_005_-_Warszawa_-_Zlote_Tarasy.jpg
Interior views:
http://www.olesku.pl/2010/06/zote-tarasy-interior-in-evening.html#.UUDW-qFJD5M


Also, what is the size of the current Rideau Centre food court?

Oh man, it looks incredible inside and out. You'd think mall planning would be conducive to having something like a food court on the top level too. I thought the point was to get people walking through the mall. Placing the food court on street level, with street access is convenient, sure- but I thought these people were out to make money. I see it similar to placing the milk at the back of the grocery store.

I think the existing food court is a lot smaller than 30,000 sqft. Just for comparative purposes I think the eaton centre 'Urban Eatery' is about 45,000 and seats something like 1000 people. I feel like Rideau's is surely less than half that size.

[J.OT13]

They missed an opportunity when they built the Convention Centre; having some sort of relationship/access between the OCC and the roof top terrace would have been awesome.

[mac_junkie1]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Of everyone in this city, I'm probably the most disappointed to see a perfectly fine (structurally), architecturally stunning historic building torn down.

But anyway, I have to accept the inevitable, nothing I can do to save it now.

While we are here, I would like to ask a few questions. I’ll start with two;

1. In the mid-1980s, the building still had its original bird-cage/manual elevators. Are those still there?

2. Has anyone given a good reason to tear it down? BTW, Rideau expansion is not a reason; they could have expanded the Rideau into Ogilvy as originally planned in the 80s. Esthetical damage is also not a good reason, since the inside and outside damage is Cadillac Fairview’s fault (even when Viking Rideau owned it, CF had a say).

Regardless, I appreciate the Facebook link, thanks for that.

I'm also very disappointed that the entire building has to come down, and I asked questions and got answers that really cleared up some of my thoughts.

The building has not been taken care of inside and out. The inside was fully stripped in 2006 to remove all the asbestos that was there. The inside could never have been saved. Just look at the white wall on the side. Its such a hoge/poge of messes. The building hasn't been taken care of for around 30-40 years. Shame on everyone. Too many alterations and "reverts to original" have ruined the building. Its not worth completely saving. There's missing moldings, cornices, bricks and all that. As it is, its useless. It could never have been saved. Remember, when it closed, it was put up for sale before Rideau/Viking had bought it. No one wanted a space that big. A complete restoration as it is would've cost astronomical prices. Its sad to see it go, but I'm SO GLAD its coming back, and coming back as 1907. We've all seen this building as it has been since 1935. Its time to restore it back to its original vision and let Ottawa see THAT once again. The interior is so outdated. It can't be saved. I tried to find every point I could to save it as a full, but its not worth it. Its kinda ugly at 5 floors. I like its 4 floor look and under. Also, the basement of the 1906-1907 portion are only about 6ft tall. Its so tight down there, = useless space. People were shorter then, now a little taller. The 1916 portion is split by 3-4 stairs going lower which was the sports dept in the '40s. The winding staircase is still there, but only the stairs part. The nice wall is gone. When I went thru it, the only thing left "original" was 4 offices on the front on the 5th floor. THATS IT. Everything else was gone.

As for the elevator, I peaked into it because it was split open and it looks like the ones at The Bay across the street. Looks identical. Not sure about the service elevator at the back though. They were sealed shut.

Remember, this whole job isn't being done because Rideau/Cadillac want to. This is being done because the city did something right and granted it heritage status. If it was up to Rideau, it would've disappeared 13 years ago. Barry has "restored" most of Ottawa's heritage structures, and he'll do complete justice on this one also. He's the right guy for the job. If you look on the facebook page, click on 1907 and look at the newspaper sketch. Its so neat. That's what were getting. Something very special.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by mac_junkie1

I'm also very disappointed that the entire building has to come down, and I asked questions and got answers that really cleared up some of my thoughts.

The building has not been taken care of inside and out. The inside was fully stripped in 2006 to remove all the asbestos that was there. The inside could never have been saved. Just look at the white wall on the side. Its such a hoge/poge of messes. The building hasn't been taken care of for around 30-40 years. Shame on everyone. Too many alterations and "reverts to original" have ruined the building. Its not worth completely saving. There's missing moldings, cornices, bricks and all that. As it is, its useless. It could never have been saved. Remember, when it closed, it was put up for sale before Rideau/Viking had bought it. No one wanted a space that big. A complete restoration as it is would've cost astronomical prices. Its sad to see it go, but I'm SO GLAD its coming back, and coming back as 1907. We've all seen this building as it has been since 1935. Its time to restore it back to its original vision and let Ottawa see THAT once again. The interior is so outdated. It can't be saved. I tried to find every point I could to save it as a full, but its not worth it. Its kinda ugly at 5 floors. I like its 4 floor look and under. Also, the basement of the 1906-1907 portion are only about 6ft tall. Its so tight down there, = useless space. People were shorter then, now a little taller. The 1916 portion is split by 3-4 stairs going lower which was the sports dept in the '40s. The winding staircase is still there, but only the stairs part. The nice wall is gone. When I went thru it, the only thing left "original" was 4 offices on the front on the 5th floor. THATS IT. Everything else was gone.

As for the elevator, I peaked into it because it was split open and it looks like the ones at The Bay across the street. Looks identical. Not sure about the service elevator at the back though. They were sealed shut.

Remember, this whole job isn't being done because Rideau/Cadillac want to. This is being done because the city did something right and granted it heritage status. If it was up to Rideau, it would've disappeared 13 years ago. Barry has "restored" most of Ottawa's heritage structures, and he'll do complete justice on this one also. He's the right guy for the job. If you look on the facebook page, click on 1907 and look at the newspaper sketch. Its so neat. That's what were getting. Something very special.

Thanks for that. I do understand that in the condition it was in last November, it would have been extremely tough to restore to its 1934 (or maybe even the 50s) rendition. A lot of pieces were missing all around, as you mentioned (bricks, pieces of moulding, even the Greek spandrels were crumbling and missing pieces).

I still believe it could have been fully saved in 2000 when Viking Rideau originally applied for demolition. But anyway, I trust that Padolsky will do a good job restoring the façade to its 1907 version.

I just wish I would have gotten the chance to go inside at least once.

[mac_junkie1]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks for that. I do understand that in the condition it was in last November, it would have been extremely tough to restore to its 1934 (or maybe even the 50s) rendition. A lot of pieces were missing all around, as you mentioned (bricks, pieces of moulding, even the Greek spandrels were crumbling and missing pieces).

I still believe it could have been fully saved in 2000 when Viking Rideau originally applied for demolition. But anyway, I trust that Padolsky will do a good job restoring the façade to its 1907 version.

I just wish I would have gotten the chance to go inside at least once.

It was pure luck to be able to go in. I spoke to "certain" people who allowed me in. I took tons of pictures and once I know what I'm doing with them, I'll publish more of them. So far I've let a few go here and there, but someone else gets first pick at them first after me.

Maybe it could've been saved in 2000, or just better taken care of before, but it would've cost a lot regardless, and in 2000, there was no purpose to restore it. It sat empty for sale for years. Too big a location, and it small a market for a building that size. Oh well..... Why dwell on the ignorance of the past :-p Its good to see it finally get the love it got when it was first built. Keep checking my Facebook page. I'll add a few more shots I took today. The 4th floor is now starting to come down along with more of the west white wall.

[brentgaulois]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Thanks for that. I do understand that in the condition it was in last November, it would have been extremely tough to restore to its 1934 (or maybe even the 50s) rendition. A lot of pieces were missing all around, as you mentioned (bricks, pieces of moulding, even the Greek spandrels were crumbling and missing pieces).

I still believe it could have been fully saved in 2000 when Viking Rideau originally applied for demolition. But anyway, I trust that Padolsky will do a good job restoring the façade to its 1907 version.

I just wish I would have gotten the chance to go inside at least once.

Definitely agree with you. My grandmother used to work there as a supervisor (or floor manager?) there in the '60s and '70s (maybe '80s?). I'll have to find out more from her, would be interesting if she had any photographs.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by brentgaulois

Definitely agree with you. My grandmother used to work there as a supervisor (or floor manager?) there in the '60s and '70s (maybe '80s?). I'll have to find out more from her, would be interesting if she had any photographs.

My mother also worked there during the spring/summer 1985. She says it was here favourite place to work.

She never paid a whole lot of attention to the interior details, but she remembers the old elevators and operators fondly as well as the checkered floor we can see in a few historic photographs.

[J.OT13]

About the Ogilvy;

The original plan was to knock down the whole building and every one of its walls and store the 1907 detailing and bricks until they were remounted on the Rideau expansion. But now that they are demolishing the building before removing the bricks from the 1907 façade (BTW, I know they will be using a large part of the 1916 pillars to recreate the ridges between the top of the first and second floors), I am wondering if they have decided to keep the 1907 wall in situ while they are building the Rideau expansion behind it.

The main reason that I am speculating about it is the rounded corner. If they are to dismantle it, they would have done the same with the 4th and 5th floor section to assure they have enough bricks to rebuild it.