PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

by underlying facts, I guess you mean things like the percentage of those with a college degree, average household income, racial breakdown, etc?

Overall population can matter too, although I'd agree you generally need to look beyond that headline number to get a real sense of where an area is heading.

But what I actually meant is that the same physical locations will still be gaining or losing the same number of people--the new CSA definition will not directly change that, just how that information gets reported.

And I don't think it will even have much indirect "marketing" impact, because MSAs tend to be WAY more important than CSAs when it comes to reporting on these issues.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Overall population can matter too, although I'd agree you generally need to look beyond that headline number to get a real sense of where an area is heading.

But what I actually meant is that the same physical locations will still be gaining or losing the same number of people--the new CSA definition will not directly change that, just how that information gets reported.

And I don't think it will even have much indirect "marketing" impact, because MSAs tend to be WAY more important than CSAs when it comes to reporting on these issues.

This may be a long shot for now, but I would like to see some of these parts of the CSA eventually added to the MSA (i.e. Lawrence County, Indiana County, as well as Steubenville). Does that happen over time?

I get what you mean about how certain places will still gain or lose the same amounts of people, but those trends don't always have to be definite. Pittsburgh, both in terms of the city and region, was losing population for decades. For the first time in roughly 40 years (60 years if just talking about Pittsburgh city-proper), the region is growing again.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

They have a heat-map thingy that purports to explain the logic by the locations, with Squirrel Hill (and Regent Square, another possibility I would have thought) not making the cut. I'm OK with that for now, but I would hope that if this takes off, and in general biking interest in Pittsburgh continues to grow, they will be able to expand their location map.

I can kinda see why Regent Square wouldn't be included... at the present time, that is. It's probably seen as too isolated from the heart of the East End. Though Squirrel Hill would seem like a logical inclusion for bike share inclusion. Large student and young populations and borders on Oakland and Schenley Park, with a lot of commuting between the neighborhoods. I could definitely see people grabbing a bike to ride down Forbes or through the Park into Oakland... maybe the issue is no one would want to ride back up, thus leaving empty racks too often in Squirrel Hill?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Does that happen over time?

MSAs and CSAs are both based on commuting patterns. For an MSA, you start with the core urban counties, and then add outlying counties as long as they have enough commuter exchange with the core. CSAs are then made up of MSAs (metro or micro) which have sufficient commuter exchange between them as a whole, but the individual counties of the outlying MSAs presumably don't have enough commuter exchange with the core of the primary MSA to be included in that MSA. However, if the commuter exchange with the core of the primary MSA picks up in some of those currently non-primary-MSA counties, then eventually more counties could be shifted into the primary MSA.

I get what you mean about how certain places will still gain or lose the same amounts of people, but those trends don't always have to be definite.

Indeed. My point is just that the real trends are what we should care about, including how they can be influenced by policy. From that perspective, how the data is reported is of interest to making sure we understand what is happening, but it is not itself a primary issue.

[Wheelingman04]

Originally Posted by East Edge

This is what I mean by "World Class City!". Very cool.

I agree too and I love going up on observation decks in skyscrapers around North America. Our Neighboring cities Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati and Buffalo all have one. Why not us. Our downtown is amazing!

[Wheelingman04]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

In nerdy statistical news, the government has released updated Metropolitan Area definitions today. The Pittsburgh CSA is growing.. in land mass.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/bulletins/2013/b13-01.pdf

The Pittsburgh-New Castle CSA has added the Weirton-Steubenville WV-OH MSA and the Indiana, PA micropolitan area. Of course, our additions are pretty modest compared to some other CSAs... this "mega-metro" definition is getting so broad that it's beginning to lose all meaning (for example, Cleveland adds New Philadelphia to its CSA, which is 86 miles away).

So based on the latest population estimates...

Pittsburgh CSA

2010: 2,447,393
2011: 2,450,281
Change: +2,888

Weirton-Steubenville MSA

2010: 124,454
2011: 123,243
Change: -1,221

Indiana County

2010: 88,880
2011: 89,298
Change: +418

New Pittsburgh CSA

2010: 2,660,727
2011: 2,662,822
Change: +2,095

Increase over previous definition: +212,541

One problem with adding Weirton-Steubenville is that area is still in population freefall... so it will be harder for the expanded Pittsburgh CSA to squeak out overall population growth with the WV/OH drag.

On the plus side, WheelingMan (who lives in Weirton) can now officially claim to be a Pittsburgh CSA resident.

Thanks Evergrey Living just a very short distance, close enough to walk to Paris, PA always irritated me because I couldn't ever say I was part of the Pittsburgh area officially since I lived on the West Virginia side. Now that is cool and I'm happy about it, but you are right the population decline here in our metro is bad. Unfortunately there isn't much of a loss in Brooke and Hancock County, WV but Steubenville and the rest of Jefferson County Ohio are the main problem. They are losing a lot of population fast. Weirton is now the biggest city in the metro. There are a lot of corrupt politicians over there and the crime in Steubenville is bad for such a small city. Some other areas of Jefferson County area so isolated and died when the industries left and there is really no hope for them.

The West Virginia side is doing pretty decent overall though the high death rate and amount of old persons as a percent of the population is not positive. The population decline has slowed dramatically over the last 2 census counts.

The crime rates in WV are very low and the government and community services are very good. Also people in Weirton don't necessarily have to move to have a good, well paying job in Robinson, green tree, downtown Pittsburgh or other parts of the metro.

Many label Weirton as a bedroom community of Pittsburgh including the chamber of commerce, the convention and visitors bureau, all the hotels and Howard Hanna's Weirton Heights office close to where I live. Southwestern Pennsylvania Transit does rideshare for jobs in Pittsburgh including a couple of stops in Steubenville and Weirton. If anyone wants to know more about any of this just let me know.

[Wheelingman04]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Oh, you're right that it is bleeding people. I'm just saying that since it's officially linked with a burgeoning metro area, maybe some of the growth can shift over to Steubenville-Weirton. Maybe something else can happen to encourage growth -- better access in some form between Steubenville and the greater Pittsburgh area...

Youngstown is bleeding people considerably. I wonder if that will be added at some point, either to Cleveland or Pittsburgh's CSA.

That would be very nice. I know Starpointe Business Park off of the Burgettstown exit is only 5 miles from the WV state line and the city limits of Weirton and they are expanding quickly so it should help the 22 corridor from Steubenville-Weirton- N. Washington County. Most people from the Burgettstown area come to Weirton to shop, get groceries, and go get prescriptions and go to Weirton Medical Center. Many Ready the Weirton Daily Times Newspaper too.

[mstem58]

wheelingman04, buffalo does have a 360 view atop it's city hall, but it NEEDS it, it's very flat, in Pittsburgh, you have wonderful hills that afford spectacular views, i took the tram up from station square many years ago and i still remember the wonderous pittsburgh skyline!

[Wheelingman04]

Originally Posted by mstem58

wheelingman04, buffalo does have a 360 view atop it's city hall, but it NEEDS it, it's very flat, in Pittsburgh, you have wonderful hills that afford spectacular views, i took the tram up from station square many years ago and i still remember the wonderous pittsburgh skyline!

Yeah but being on top on this tower will afford views right into the core of the city and you will be able to finally see the roofs of the other towers and the density for the first time and get good views of the Oakland section of town and the Hill District and Uptown. Not to mention on clear days you can see for 50 miles in all directions because this tower is much higher than the surrounding hills. You can't do that with Mount Washington because all the hills surrounding downtown Pittsburgh are approximately the same height. I'm sure I could see around the area I live, the airport area, other city and suburban areas and the steam from the nuclear power plant in shippingport. <(That dreaded thing)

[George Woods]

During my hours-long bike-ride on Saturday, I took these photos of some projects well underway in the 9th Ward, below Butler.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by George Woods

During my hours-long bike-ride on Saturday, I took these photos of some projects well underway in the 9th Ward, below Butler.

Thanks! Lawrenceville is really coming along amazingly well.

[Private Dick]

Downtown Pittsburgh Shifting from 9 to 5 Business District to Full-Fledged Neighborhood

http://wesa.fm/2013/03/12/downtown-pitts...iness-district-full-fledged-neighborhood

[Wheelingman04]

Lawrenceville is looking great! It is amazing how fast this section of town is changing.

[themaguffin]

I couldn't ever say I was part of the Pittsburgh area officially since I lived on the West Virginia side. Now that is cool and I'm happy about it,

I always said it when I lived in OH. These CSA designations don't mean much to me. Steubenville isn't far from the city of Pittsburgh really and when you factor in how close it is to the Robinson, the airport and of course Star Lake....

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Downtown Pittsburgh Shifting from 9 to 5 Business District to Full-Fledged Neighborhood

Interesting discussion in there about affordable housing. I think additional affordable housing (outside of student housing) in the Golden Triangle itself is extremely unlikely--we'll be lucky to get some modest mid-market units.

The Hill/Bluff, on the other hand, remains a good place for (smart) mixed-income projects. Maybe parts of the North Side as well, and in the West End (I wouldn't hold out much hope for the Strip).

All that can work to give lower-income people good access to the economic and other opportunities in and around Downtown, but that does depend on maintaining (and if possible upgrading) the transit system in that area.

And to tie together some threads--the new bike share network could certainly help, particularly with some expansion outside of the current planned map.

[Private Dick]

Also posted in City Discussions... nothing new for Pittsburghers to hear this, but a good read nonetheless:

Rust Belt Renaissance: The Future American City

http://thepolitic.org/rust-belt-renaissance-pittsburgh-and-the-future-of-the-american-city/

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Also posted in City Discussions... nothing new for Pittsburghers to hear this, but a good read nonetheless:

Rust Belt Renaissance: The Future American City

http://thepolitic.org/rust-belt-renaissance-pittsburgh-and-the-future-of-the-american-city/

That is a good read. Other cities in the ever decaying rust belt can certainly take note of how Pittsburgh has redefined itself and continues doing so. Cities like Cleveland and Detroit should turn to its assets and build on those. Manufacturing is no longer the economic engine. What else is there on which to build an economy?

Pittsburgh has its aforementioned assets, and it's nice to see Pittsburgh becomming an example here for other cities in decline given these assets.

The article mentioned something that I am in 100 percent agreement with; the need for improved transit and access to it, as well as overall transportation.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

That is a good read. Other cities in the ever decaying rust belt can certainly take note of how Pittsburgh has redefined itself and continues doing so. Cities like Cleveland and Detroit should turn to its assets and build on those. Manufacturing is no longer the economic engine. What else is there on which to build an economy?

Pittsburgh has its aforementioned assets, and it's nice to see Pittsburgh becomming an example here for other cities in decline given these assets.

The article mentioned something that I am in 100 percent agreement with; the need for improved transit and access to it, as well as overall transportation.

Well, a good read in a fluffy, lots of sizzle not a lot of steak, sense.

[Private Dick]

I'm a busy guy on here today... trying to avoid doing work

URA buys Pittsburgh's 'skinny building' and its plumper neighbor

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...s-plumper-neighbor-678974/#ixzz2NMRn8sZJ

March 12, 2013 1:07 pm
By Mark Belko / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Downtown Pittsburgh's "Skinny Building" is about to change hands.

The sliver of a structure at 241 Forbes Avenue, considered by some to be one of the world's skinniest buildings, and the adjacent John M. Roberts & Son building on Wood Street are being purchased by the city's Urban Redevelopment Authority for a combined $1.3 million.

Both buildings, owned by Garland Real Properties Inc., sit in the heart of the Fifth and Forbes retail corridor, across the street from the $400 million Tower at PNC Plaza skyscraper now under construction and a block from the entrance to Market Square, with its multitude of restaurants.

Yarone Zober, URA board chairman and chief of staff to Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, said the intent is to improve the aesthetics of both buildings and to convert the Roberts building's upper floors, which are now vacant, into housing or some other use.

The Roberts building is now home to a 7 Eleven convenience store, while the "Skinny Building" houses a merchant who sells T-shirts, hats and other merchandise. Mr. Zober said both retailers have leases and would remain once the URA takes control of the structures.

He said a paramount concern to the retailing is to improve the look of both structures, similar to the facade improvements that have been made to the Italian Sons and Daughters building across the streets and several other properties in the corridor.

[Evergrey]

It was a crap article with the same tired platitudes and Rust Belt iconography. Even trotted out the inaccurate old stereotype about Pittsburgh "not retaining its youth" followed by an anecdote from some kid who doesn't want to get his political science PhD at Pitt/CMU/Duquesne. Gee... a lot of people get their doctorates in faraway locations... pretty weak example to use as some sort of indictment on Pittsburgh's youth demographic.

But, I will give the writer kudos for actually delving into components of population change with the net migration numbers.