The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

The first of the new Montreal Metro trains being assembled at Bombardier. Slated for delivery starting in 2014.









http://metrodemontreal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16475&start=0

I can't wait for those to be finished....

[ssiguy]

.................and let the battle of the Ontario cities begin.

If I was in Ottawa, London, or Kichener and wanting to build my rapid transit system I would be beyond furious right now.

The city of Hamilton only has 540,000, just a few thousand more than Waterloo and much smaller than Ottawa's 900,000. London has less than Waterloo but is more densely populated and has higher transit ridership levels than KW or Hamilton. Ott/Lon/KW are expected to pay a good chunk of their transit costs while Hamilton {and of course Toronto} get away scott free.

What exactly is the province going to say when those cities looking for 100% capital infrastructure cost coverage are denied? Sorry, we ran out of money after giving Toronto and Hamilton everything they wanted, try back again in 10 years?

Forget just Ott/Lon/KW, what about all the other cities and towns in the province who are expected to pay for a portion of their transportation costs? Somehow I just don't envision Queen's Park sending a cheque in the mail to Ontarians outside the GTA/Hamilton a cheque in the mail to make up the difference.

This is going to only reinforce the notion that most people in Ontario have about Queen's Park.................people who live in the extended GTA and then the "others".
This is not only patently unfair but is political opportunism 101 and very divisive.

[Innsertnamehere]

If I was in Ottawa, London, or Kichener and wanting to build my rapid transit system I would be beyond furious right now.

Both Kithener and Ottawa have already received grants from the province for their lines, and they opted to go for a direct payment from the municipality rather than a new province run, but locally applied tax that the province is providing.

The city of Hamilton only has 540,000, just a few thousand more than Waterloo and much smaller than Ottawa's 900,000. London has less than Waterloo but is more densely populated and has higher transit ridership levels than KW or Hamilton. Ott/Lon/KW are expected to pay a good chunk of their transit costs while Hamilton {and of course Toronto} get away scott free.

Hamilton will pay for it's LRT through a new locally applied transit tax, which is run by the province. NOT A SINGLE CENT WILL COME FROM PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE GTA!

What exactly is the province going to say when those cities looking for 100% capital infrastructure cost coverage are denied? Sorry, we ran out of money after giving Toronto and Hamilton everything they wanted, try back again in 10 years?

I think it would be more along the lines of:
"sorry but the GTHA was willing to pay for it's transit using a transit tax, if you want to do that too, we will be happy to help. of course you could always opt to pay directly to the province, and circumvent the transit tax, like Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo have"

as for the lack of funding, the largest city in Ontario that isn't getting LRT is London, which seems to have no interest in it regardless. If the municipality were to actually do the EA on it, and start asking for funding, I'm sure it would receive it in good time.

the province doesn't just give money to cities without them asking first, so you can't complain that london isn't getting LRT if it hasn't even asked for it.

Forget just Ott/Lon/KW, what about all the other cities and towns in the province who are expected to pay for a portion of their transportation costs? Somehow I just don't envision Queen's Park sending a cheque in the mail to Ontarians outside the GTA/Hamilton a cheque in the mail to make up the difference.

that is the friggin point of the government, to build infrastructure. the government is extending the 400 to sudbury, how come there isn't a peep about that? all of ontario is paying for it. or how about the windsor-essex parkway? or the 404 extension? or the 407 extension? or the 427 reconstruction? or even the evergreen line, of which the provincial government is supplying $500 million dollars? why do people in Victoria have to pay for it? because it is INFRASTRUCTURE, which the GOVERNMENT is responsible to pay for.


As for the province just giving the GTA $38 billion in infrastructure, the GTHA will pay for through a new tax, that is only collected in the GTHA. It just so happens to be managed by the province, but it doesn't mean it is a province wide tax.

you also seem to have the impression that the City of Toronto won't be paying for a single cent of Transit City. On paper, it won't. but if the projects go a single cent over the $8.4 billion dollar budget, the City of Toronto will have to pay up. (and truthfully, I find it unlikely that it will come in under budget)

[kwoldtimer]

The Record has already been in touch with Glen Murray re his comments and Murray has assured that all municipalities will be treated fairly. He clarified his comments re Hamilton. I suspect that Waterloo Region will proceed in whichever way proves most beneficial. Just to note that federal and provincial money has been pledged, but nothing has yet been received by the Region, as far as I know.

[Chadillaccc]

I don't even know why London was brought into the discussion in the first place. Having rode the system a few times, I can somewhat say it is the most bullshit transit system of any major city in the country. The city government has no interest in LRT, so why bitch and complain about why the provincial government isn't giving them any? Every other city that asked has received it. Ottawa, Waterloo Region, Hamilton, and Toronto.


and btw... if you're going to start spouting statistics, get your facts straight. Comparing Hamilton's municipal 540 000 to Waterloo Regions metropolitan 500 000 is ridiculous. Hamilton is a metropolitan area of 750 000, the core city being 540 000 with a commuter-shed of 210 000.

[Innsertnamehere]

Yep, just a ridiculous as saying toronto is bigger than Chicago.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Yep, just a ridiculous as saying toronto is bigger than Chicago.

Not really. As Chicago's "metropolitan area" is the size of Belgium, and the same size as El Salvador and Puerto Rico combined. While Toronto's is the actual size of its metropolitan commutershed. If we were to bring them down to/up to size, I'm certain the comparison wouldn't seem so ridiculous.

[Rotax]

Originally Posted by MTLskyline

The first of the new Montreal Metro trains being assembled at Bombardier. Slated for delivery starting in 2014.









http://metrodemontreal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16475&start=0

Le premier train devrait être livré en juillet 2013. Il sera testé sur le réseau pendant plusieurs mois. La mise en service voyageur est prévue pour février 2014.

Beaucoup de photos ici : https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=951cf004e...1CF004EAB05E71&id=951CF004EAB05E71%21107

Merci à Asakha sur metrodemontreal.com/forum

[caltrane74]

New Glass Trainshed at Union Station
The majority of the work here is unseen
New Concourse and Retail Mall being built deep
Under the existing Concourse and Railtrack

[MTLskyline]

Originally Posted by Rotax

Le premier train devrait être livré en juillet 2013. Il sera testé sur le réseau pendant plusieurs mois. La mise en service voyageur est prévue pour février 2014.

Beaucoup de photos ici : https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=951cf004e...1CF004EAB05E71&id=951CF004EAB05E71%21107

Merci à Asakha sur metrodemontreal.com/forum

Merci pour l'info!

[LeftCoaster]

Toronto's new streetcar took a test trip last night. Can't wait to see these guys on the road.


http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/new-ttc-streetcar-takes-maiden-test-voyage-1.1195188

[Chadillaccc]

Neato! Entering revenue service... next year? I think someone said that.

[LeftCoaster]

2014 apparently. I don't know the exact date, if there is one yet.

[caltrane74]

A very European looking streetcar, for a very North American City.

[Coldrsx]

HUGE potential news for Edmonton


Speculation that federal announcement could involve LRT money


BY GORDON KENT, EDMONTON JOURNAL MARCH 14, 2013 10:43 AM



An artist’s impression of the new LRT line from Mill Woods to City Centre. Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose and Minister of State for Finance Ted Menzies will be in Edmonton Thursday to make an “important funding announcement” for Edmonton. There’s speculation it could involve money for southeast LRT construction.
Photograph by: Supplied
EDMONTON - Two federal cabinet ministers will be in the city Thursday to make what a news release describes as an “important funding announcement” for Edmonton.

Councillors say they haven’t been told what Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose and Minister of State for Finance Ted Menzies will announce, but there’s speculation it could involve money for southeast LRT construction.

Edmonton is banking on $400 million from the federal government to help pay for the $1.8-billion project, and has applied for support under the federal public-private partnership fund.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmo...ncement+could+involve/8097695/story.html


(http://sohi.ca/img/gallery/LRT_2.JPG)

[Coldrsx]

Government of Canada and City of Edmonton Announce Public-Private Partnership (P3) to Speed up Light Rail Transit Access for Edmontonians


March 14, 2013

On behalf of the Honourable Jim Flaherty, Minister of Finance, the Honourable Ted Menzies, Minister of State (Finance), and the Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for Status of Women, announced a P3 Canada Fund investment of up to $250-million to support the construction of the City of Edmonton’s new Light Rail Transit (LRT). The Ministers were joined at the event by Edmonton Mayor Stephen Mandel.

This investment will allow the City of Edmonton to enhance its public transit services. The new line and supporting facility will help reduce traffic congestion and greenhouse gas emissions, increase transit ridership, deliver direct economic benefits by providing residents with a lower-cost transportation alternative, and create jobs both during and after construction.

“Our Government is proud to support municipal investments in infrastructure projects that harness public and private sector expertise to deliver vital local services, like light rail transit, that promote long-term economic growth,” said Minister Menzies.

“This project means Edmontonians will save money on commuting and have more time to spend with their families rather than in traffic,” said Minister Ambrose. “It also means high-quality jobs for people in Edmonton and throughout the surrounding region.”

“The City of Edmonton welcomes this important funding announcement by the federal government,” said Mayor Stephen Mandel. “The Southeast to West LRT is a key part of our transportation infrastructure. It will connect communities in Mill Woods and southeast Edmonton to the central core and is essential to our plans for building a better, more accessible city.”

Through a competitive bidding process, a private sector proponent will be selected to design, build, finance, operate and maintain the new light rail transit project over a 30-year period. By entering into a long-term P3 agreement, the City will transfer significant risks over the whole lifecycle of the project to the private sector, allowing the City of Edmonton to realize greater value for taxpayers’ dollars. Edmonton will retain ownership of the infrastructure, will be the fare setter and revenue collector, and will ensure safety and security standards are maintained.

The project includes the construction of the southeast leg of the Southeast to West LRT (Valley Line), running 13.2 kilometres from Mill Woods to downtown Edmonton. The line is an urban style low-floor LRT that will integrate directly into existing communities, with an initial projected daily ridership of 28,000 passengers, increasing to 49,000 by 2044. The project also includes the construction of a signature bridge spanning the North Saskatchewan River, a 350-metre tunnel, and an operations and maintenance facility for the new line.

PPP Canada Inc. was established by the Government of Canada to improve the delivery of public infrastructure by achieving better value, timeliness and accountability to taxpayers, through public-private partnerships. PPP Canada acts as a leading source on P3 matters through knowledge development and sharing. In addition, the Corporation provides expertise and advice in assessing and executing P3 opportunities at the federal level as well as leveraging greater value for money from federal investments in provincial, territorial, municipal and First Nations infrastructure through the P3 Canada Fund.

The P3 Canada Fund is a merit-based program with the objective of supporting P3 infrastructure projects that achieve value for Canadians, develop the Canadian P3 market and generate significant public benefits.

For information on PPP Canada and the Government of Canada’s P3 Canada Fund investments visit p3canada.ca.
For information on Edmonton’s Southeast to West LRT, please visit edmonton.ca/setowestlrt.

http://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/n...ounce-public-private-partnership-P3.aspx

[SFUVancouver]

Sounds like a similar P3 model for Edmonton as was used for the Canada Line in Vancouver. A few suggestions, though: make sure the contract specifies station sizes that can be expanded later; make sure there is a mechanism to increase the level of service throughout the life of the concessionaire contract; and make sure that it is clear how additional trains will be added during the life of the contract.

[Chadillaccc]

How is that working out for Van/Richmond? I haven't heard too many complaints.

[someone123]

The Canada Line itself is nice but it seems like there were a few problems with the bidding process and ultimate contract. SFUVancouver mentioned the lack of capacity for expansion. On top of that it might have been more expensive than alternatives like using the same SkyTrain technology the rest of the system uses. I have heard that one reason why that technology lost out was that the bidding process artificially excluded advantages derived from the existing SkyTrain lines. That might have been better for bidders but it was not good from the perspective of the city.

[ssiguy]

Hey Ched, just to let you know that London does have a long term plan for LRT but it's more immediate goal is a rapid BRT system which it also has no money for. The LTC also has higher risership numbers than KWC eventhough it serves more people and London has higher percapita ridership numbers than Hamilton.

My point was somehow Hamilton 550,000 expect {and get} 100% transit capitol funding but the 900k in Ottawa, 450k urban core KWC, and the 380k in London simply don't qualify. No particular reason they don't, they just don't. It is offensive how some Ontarians get something for nothing but others aren't so lucky.

Put this into context...........Alberta were to give $1 billion to Edmonton for LRT and expect no contribution and when Calgary ask for the same it's told will give you $330 but only if you cough up the same amount yourselves and get the feds to kick in their one-third.