The Great Canadian Skyline Thread! II

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by logan5

I don't think anybody thinks that.

Well...

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by logan5

I don't think anybody thinks that. I wonder which city would be considered the most urban after the first 3? Maybe little old Victoria?

I can only hope you're joking.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I can only hope you're joking.

Just looking to provoke a response, but Victoria's pretty decent though. It's downtown area is more vibrant than a lot of cities in NA many times its size (imo).

[Nouvellecosse]

And how did your experiences there compare to the time you spent in places like Ottawa, QC, Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Halifax?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

And how did your experiences there compare to the time you spent in places like Ottawa, QC, Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Halifax?

I haven't spent an extended period of time in many other cities except for Regina, so I rely on Google Earth street view to try and get a feel for what a city is like. Not 100% effective but I feel it's a pretty good way to gauge a city.

You said that you hoped I was joking about Victoria... what is your impression on how it stacks up to say a city like Winnipeg?

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by logan5

I don't think anybody thinks that. I wonder which city would be considered the most urban after the first 3? Maybe little old Victoria?

Depends on how one measures urbanity. But there is no way that it is Victoria, by any measure. The answer is likely either Ottawa or Calgary (not surprisingly), again, depending on how one measures a subjective thing like "urbanity."

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Reesonov

Depends on how one measures urbanity. But there is no way that it is Victoria, by any measure. The answer is likely either Ottawa or Calgary (not surprisingly), again, depending on how one measures a subjective thing like "urbanity."

Quebec City might deserve an honourable mention. It's area of ''apparent urbanity'' is probably quite a bit smaller than those of Ottawa or Calgary, but within that smaller area it is arguably more intense than in either of the other two.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec City might deserve an honourable mention. It's area of ''apparent urbanity'' is probably quite a bit smaller than those of Ottawa or Calgary, but within that smaller area it is arguably more intense than in either of the other two.

Yeah, it would certainly have more "old world" urbanity than either Calgary or Ottawa. My impression of Ottawa is that it has a larger area (than Calgary or QC) of what most people would characterize as an "urban" environment. Calgary has a smaller but more concentrated urban area (muscular, very dense CBD; more diverse population; LRT, etc.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Reesonov

Yeah, it would certainly have more "old world" urbanity than either Calgary or Ottawa. My impression of Ottawa is that it has a larger area (than Calgary or QC) of what most people would characterize as an "urban" environment. Calgary has a smaller but more concentrated urban area (muscular, very dense CBD; more diverse population; LRT, etc.)

Three letters to make any Ottawan jealous.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by logan5

I haven't spent an extended period of time in many other cities except for Regina, so I rely on Google Earth street view to try and get a feel for what a city is like. Not 100% effective but I feel it's a pretty good way to gauge a city.

You said that you hoped I was joking about Victoria... what is your impression on how it stacks up to say a city like Winnipeg?

I haven't been to Victoria, so I can't comment on how busy or vibrant it is, which is certainly an important element of urbanism. But in terms of built form, I've done a lot of exploring on streetview as well as looking at photo threads here on SSP and SSC, and I honestly don't see why people consider it to be especially urban (again, from a built form perspective) unless they were just judging it in a western context, or it's super busy.

Of course, growing up in the east, I tend to have a bias regarding built form, in that when a streetscape is more imposing-looking by having larger buildings closer to the street forming a strong streetwall, I view the street as looking more urban. And in Victoria, the downtown seems to be dominated by 1-3 story buildings, and the inner city neighbourhoods seem dominated by fully detached 1-2 story houses set back from the street a good 2-5 metres.

I can't say I've spent a lot of time streetviewing Winnipeg for comparison purposes though. So other than some photo tours I've seen of the downtown (which definitely look quite urban) I'm not that familiar with it.

[softee]

Originally Posted by logan5

I haven't spent an extended period of time in many other cities except for Regina, so I rely on Google Earth street view to try and get a feel for what a city is like. Not 100% effective but I feel it's a pretty good way to gauge a city.

It's pretty obvious to me while looking at google streetview that some areas of certain cities were photographed early in the morning while the streets and sidewalk were still relatively empty.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Reesonov

Yeah, it would certainly have more "old world" urbanity than either Calgary or Ottawa. My impression of Ottawa is that it has a larger area (than Calgary or QC) of what most people would characterize as an "urban" environment. Calgary has a smaller but more concentrated urban area (muscular, very dense CBD; more diverse population; LRT, etc.)

Ottawa seems to have a really tiny "urban" fealing zone compared to the city size to me. Thunder Bay feels like you can walk around in the core longer than Ottawa where strolling a block from the CBD leavers you in super quiet residential neighbourhoods.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Beedok

400 footers are crucial. That's how Hamilton blows Ottawa out of the water.

Ottawa is not hard to beat in this department.No debate there.Hamilton doesn't have near the downtown density as Ottawa though.I mean Ottawa is pretty much twice it's size, so it's understandeable

Originally Posted by Beedok

Ottawa seems to have a really tiny "urban" fealing zone compared to the city size to me. Thunder Bay feels like you can walk around in the core longer than Ottawa where strolling a block from the CBD leavers you in super quiet residential neighbourhoods.

Were you just in the Market, because ya that is a pretty small area.
There's Elgin which is pretty much a night club zone, and Bank street stretches a fair way..There's also an office district..Albert, Queen, Slater etc.
Never been to Thunder Bay, so I can't judge if it's core is larger than Ottawa's.I'm betting not though..I mean let's face it, Ottawa is still a smallish city, but it seems you may be underestimating it's core a little bit..Maybe you just didn't see all of it.It doesn't have many yet, but Ottawa does have a few other mini cores or districts.Preston street in the Italian section, and Richmond Road in Westborough come to mind which pretty much look like main streets in any small city.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Three letters to make any Ottawan jealous.

Ottawa's Light rail is coming..It's already been tendered and awarded..Hold your breath because a whole 2.0 km downtown will be underground and will be a bonafide subway just in the downtown..ha.. Ya It could use more height..I would argue the density though, because Ottawa's business area is pretty dense...Just not tall.

[someone123]

Ottawa's core also seemed kind of small to me. Partly I think that is a result of preconceived notions from population figures and comparisons to Quebec City and Halifax. If you were to take Halifax and multiply it by 3 you would not get Ottawa.

Victoria has a nice downtown core, but it is much smaller than Quebec City. One big difference is that there are no neighbourhoods in Victoria that would be considered "old" in Eastern Canada. There are no sizeable inner city districts of rowhouses and pre-war flats, it's just a few blocks of downtown stuff and then early 1900's neighbourhoods of houses interspersed with post-war buildings. Unlike, say, Calgary, there also isn't a disproportionately large new downtown core. Victoria has almost a small town feel, and I think a lot of people who live there like it; if they wanted a big city they'd be in Vancouver.

Vancouver is kind of similar to Victoria in that there aren't a lot of interesting inner-city neighbourhoods. There's the downtown peninsula and then there are some OK areas like Broadway. If you walk east of downtown Vancouver you do not get the Plateau. East Vancouver does have a few nice old apartment buildings but it's mostly little wooden houses from the early 1900's, many of which have been given hideous reno jobs.

[chrisallard5454]

People are talking a lot about the urbanity of cities and are leaving out the Exchange District in Winnipeg. I think that one neighbourhood (never mind the other 3 km/sq) rivals any other city's downtown (excluding of course the big 3). The Exchange is more urban in itself than anything Ottawa, Victoria, etc. has to offer. I would even say it trumps Calgary's historic built form. This is from the perspective of someone saying Winnipeg doesn't have the old building stock that Ottawa has... Sorry, definitely not true.

For those of you street viewing city neighbourhoods, that haven't spent time searching Winnipeg I suggest you search this one.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Exchange+D...Winnipeg,+Division+No.+11,+Manitoba&z=16

[niwell]

Ottawa has a pretty big "urban" area for it's size. The street wall on Bank goes south a far ways. Even further is the one on Wellington/Richmond to the west. Rideau to the east. Far more of a main street area than Calgary or Edmonton.

I'd put Winnipeg in 5th in terms of old style urban areas in Canada after Ottawa actually. Maybe equal even. Both have more significant older urban areas compared to Calgary or Edmonton. Sorry.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Ottawa seems to have a really tiny "urban" fealing zone compared to the city size to me. Thunder Bay feels like you can walk around in the core longer than Ottawa where strolling a block from the CBD leavers you in super quiet residential neighbourhoods.

Yeah... no. Ottawa actually has a fair number of urban neighbourhoods. Centretown, Lowertown, the Glebe, Sandy Hill, Hintonburg, Vanier, New Edinburg, Old Ottawa South, Westboro. It is a really underrated place in my opinion. It's the bastard stepchild of Toronto and Montreal - in a good way.

[kool maudit]

i lived in ottawa for four months before coming to kosovo. i was impressed by the food scene, and certain monumental gestures, but i wasn't impressed with the urban neighborhoods. the glebe was nice in an annex/westmount kind of way, but westboro was really suburban. there were some great little restaurants on the strip there, but a lot of breaks in the streetwall, and the sidestreets were made of houses with driveways and yards. the market area is older and therefore better in this regard. i wasn't hugely impressed with the city. honestly, halifax presents a more consistent urban footprint at less than half the size.

[SignalHillHiker]

I mentioned before that Ottawa is the only city in Canada where all of the Newfoundlanders I know who've moved there have loved it. My FB wall is always full of, "God, X is awful!", "5 months until I'm home for two weeks! I can't wait to get out of X!", etc. But never from the ones in Ottawa. And they all say that their Newfoundlander friends there love it too. There's definitely something special about that city.

As for Winnipeg's urban neighbourhoods... I spent 6 years there and I certainly wouldn't rave about them. The Exchange and Osborne Village (EDIT: including Corydon, which is basically part of the same strip) are the only real, functioning ones that I can think of - and, even then, Osborne Village is the only one that feels finished. The Exchange still very much feels like a work in progress. Selkirk Avenue could probably be considered one as well (and a VERY intriguing one), though only for the poorest residents. Calling St. Boniface one would be a bit of a stretch, though it does have that small-town, Main Street look. Downtown is a disaster - most of the pedestrians use pedways and underground tunnels, so the actual streets have a disproportionately high number of beggars. And that's basically it.

In all honesty, I think you could fit all of Winnipeg's functional urban neighbourhoods within old St. John's. I definitely (and oddly) feel like I'm living in a significantly bigger city since I've moved back home. The only time St. John's feels smaller to me is when I look up or have to leave downtown - everything here is short and close-by. But my life here covers a much larger and denser area than the Broadway-to-South-Osborne stretch where I spent most of my time in Winnipeg.

[kool maudit]

then again, i have no experience of the west, really. i've been to vancouver once. i may be using an overly eastern-biased definition of what makes a place urban. i feel like the houses need to be attached. i grew up in halifax and montreal, though. i didn't realize that these sort of arrangements were somewhat atypical in canada until well after they had cemented themselves in my mind as prerequisites.