Halifax Stadium Discussion

[cormiermax]

Chiac is usually looked down upon by Acadians, its like in English if someone only used slang. Its very ugly, and most educated Acadians speak proper Acadian French which is closely related to the French spoken in Quebec, but with some very noticeable differences.

[wespidel]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I don't really want to get in the middle of this, but I am not a smart man. CFL ready doesn't mean "flashy". A bare-boned 25,000 seat stadium with some private boxes would work fine. Expandable to 40,000 is to host a Grey Cup, which people go to from all over the country, since it seems some people don't know that here. All this talk about a 250 million dollar stadium is stupid though. You could build a solid stadium with only 50. You don't need to build a BC Place or Skydome, but a simple small stadium would suit a CFL team just fine.

You all are not educated when it comes to what is needed in CFL model stadium today in order to attract a CFL owner. The facility has to have all the necessary amenities needed in a CFL model stadium that all the current and the new CFL stadiums that are being built have. And all will have the ability to host a Grey Cup game with the minimum capacity of 45 thousand. This is not an opinion, it is reality which the Commissioner of CFL has explained and outlined many times. He also has stated clearly that a CFL model ready made stadium, which it would have to be, would cost 150 to 200 thousand dollars, and that is fact and reality. The CFL has a business model that works for the owner, that is why Bob Young could not be viable in a bare boned 29,000 seat stadium and is building a new CFL model stadium which will be viable.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I'm curious whether a CFL team would actually get a lot of support in this region as it appears to me that football is one of the less popular sports in the Maritimes.

Also, if we are going to spend a bunch of money on a stadium how about one that can be used 12 months of the year, given our typically bad weather for about 8 months of it. How about a replacement for the Metro Centre - hockey is still king here plus it can be used for wintertime concerts, etc.

Admittedly I'm not well-versed on the perceived public need for a stadium, but I keep seeing CFL being thrown into the mix and I really don't know anybody around here who is pumped up over the CFL...

[wespidel]

Originally Posted by wespidel

You all are not educated when it comes to what is needed in CFL model stadium today in order to attract a CFL owner. The facility has to have all the necessary amenities needed in a CFL model stadium that all the current and the new CFL stadiums that are being built have. And all will have the ability to host a Grey Cup game with the minimum capacity of 45 thousand. This is not an opinion, it is reality which the Commissioner of CFL has explained and outlined many times. He also has stated clearly that a CFL model ready made stadium, which it would have to be, would cost 150 to 200 thousand dollars, and that is fact and reality. The CFL has a business model that works for the owner, that is why Bob Young could not be viable in a bare boned 29,000 seat stadium and is building a new CFL model stadium which will be viable.

150 to 200 million by the way is not unrealistic for HRM and the province to manage, since they had no problem giving 120 million towards a unpopular new convention centre when a CFL franchise would probably have more of an economic impact than a convention centre.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Hali87

I guess I just meant French that would be more intelligible to the average French speaker than the Chiac dialect.

I understand. In the south, from what I've heard over the years, Chiac is definitely more common.

I like how there isn't just one standard of French in New Brunswick, but I must admit there is a degree of conflict between the different dialects.

Southern Acadians that speak Chiac (one being my father, who is certainly not stupid considering his university degrees in journalism) often feel that the Acadian dialect of "the north" isn't liberal enough.

One of the strengths of the English language is its ability to take words from other languages and artistically incorporate it, which morphs the language. This is the method Chiac has adopted; it doesn't just use English -- it also morphs existing French words. This is also why the French in France are allowing their language to evolve, assimilating words from English, Spanish, even German.

Quebec French is extremely conservative, and not even northern Acadian French passes the test.

If there's one thing Canadian francophones dislike more than an anglophone who cannot speak French, it's another francophone who doesn't speak their form of French. My Brayons friends (from Edmonston) could talk forever about how horribly rude Québécois are -- just as my Acadian friends in Moncton could forever discuss about the rude northern Acadians/Brayons.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

Chiac is usually looked down upon by Acadians, its like in English if someone only used slang. Its very ugly, and most educated Acadians speak proper Acadian French which is closely related to the French spoken in Quebec, but with some very noticeable differences.

Whilest Early Modern English was developing, it was considered slang and ugly by those clinging to Middle English. It is not necessarily indicative of education.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by wespidel

150 to 200 million by the way is not unrealistic for HRM and the province to manage, since they had no problem giving 120 million towards a unpopular new convention centre when a CFL franchise would probably have more of an economic impact than a convention centre.

You are the wise one. I wish you alone were ruling over Halifax.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by wespidel

150 to 200 million by the way is not unrealistic for HRM and the province to manage, since they had no problem giving 120 million towards a unpopular new convention centre when a CFL franchise would probably have more of an economic impact than a convention centre.

I really want to see the CFL expand, preferably to Halifax and also Quebec City, but I would like to understand how a CFL club that would play 9 home dates and host the Grey Cup once every 20 years would be more economically beneficial to a city like Halifax than an expanded, state-of-the-art convention centre that could host multiple events during a given year.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Whilest Early Modern English was developing, it was considered slang and ugly by those clinging to Middle English. It is not necessarily indicative of education.

Perhaps not. But the reality is that Chiac more often than not is a one-way evolution - of francophones towards standard English. Isolated anecdotes aside, as I have said before, anglos in SE NB don't speak Chiac - they speak regular English. They aren't meeting Acadians halfway in Chiac. And so in this sense Chiac is more like a transitional phase between standard French and standard English.

And I say this as someone who as on occasion waxed poetic about Chiac.

I mean, this is one of my all-time favourite songs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxev9qgQnIg

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I really want to see the CFL expand, preferably to Halifax and also Quebec City, but I would like to understand how a CFL club that would play 9 home dates and host the Grey Cup once every 20 years would be more economically beneficial to a city like Halifax than an expanded, state-of-the-art convention centre that could host multiple events during a given year.

Anyone care to enlighten me?

Another key factor with the convention centre is that the current building is at capacity and business is leaving the region because the current facility can't handle even medium-sized events.

Public-sector development isn't just about popularity contests and doling out juicy contracts. There are often reasons for building things. In the case of the convention center, this rationale was a lot more substantial than Halifax's nonexistent CFL team.

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Whilest Early Modern English was developing, it was considered slang and ugly by those clinging to Middle English. It is not necessarily indicative of education.

I should certainly hope we wont see some hideous bastard language replace traditional Acadian French.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by wespidel

150 to 200 million by the way is not unrealistic for HRM and the province to manage, since they had no problem giving 120 million towards a unpopular new convention centre when a CFL franchise would probably have more of an economic impact than a convention centre.

These things are unpopular... not grounded in any spending reality or anything of the sort.

Its all a smear campaign against what is perceived to be money going into private hands. People were against the trade centre largely because (a) they are anti-market based economies where governments create an enabling environment and (b) anti-tall buildings.

An anti-stadium plan has emphasized the first category significantly while not addressing the multifaceted use of a stadium. You'll find its the same people against everything. Meanwhile these types are the very ones taking government money for themselves (i.e. MLA spending scandal). If you took a per capita basis on what people like Epstein justified as taking out (e.g. buying himself books) and we'd have millions for a stadium.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Perhaps not. But the reality is that Chiac more often than not is a one-way evolution - of francophones towards standard English. Isolated anecdotes aside, as I have said before, anglos in SE NB don't speak Chiac - they speak regular English. They aren't meeting Acadians halfway in Chiac.

By not speaking Old English, in a sense, anglophones are meeting them halfway. Middle and Modern English are transitions toward the French language (for example, see: The Norman Conquest and Occupation of England).

Today in New Brunswick, yes, the transition is mostly one-way. Some anglophones in NB do speak Chiac; however, most bilingual anglophones aim to speak French that is more akin to the standards found in Quebec.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

I should certainly hope we wont see some hideous bastard language replace traditional Acadian French.

According to Quebec, all Acadian and Brayons dialects already are.

A lot of people in my family speak Chiac, so I take objection to your harsh words. They also know northern Acadian French (they all went to francophone schools), but they choose to speak Chiac because it's part of their culture. It's their own language.

[RyeJay]

Getting back on topic: I wonder if Mike Savage is going to continue making noise about a stadium through the media? He has a bit more fodder now to support his desires.

[wespidel]

Moncton gets regular season CFL game while the Ticats are building their new CFL model stadium. Als and Cats Sept.21/2013 at 4 pm.I can't wait to see AC live play. This game will sell out fast!

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

According to Quebec, all Acadian and Brayons dialects already are.

A lot of people in my family speak Chiac, so I take objection to your harsh words. They also know northern Acadian French (they all went to francophone schools), but they choose to speak Chiac because it's part of their culture. It's their own language.

Many in my family also speak Chiac, doesn't mean I should say its a nice dialect when it really isn't. True Acadian French should be maintained, and Chiac should be looked down upon.

[wespidel]

[QUOTE=Acajack;6038753]I really want to see the CFL expand, preferably to Halifax and also Quebec City, but I would like to understand how a CFL club that would play 9 home dates and host the Grey Cup once every 20 years would be more economically beneficial to a city like Halifax than an expanded, state-of-the-art convention centre that could host multiple events during a given year.

Anyone care to enlighten me?[/QUOTE. The economic benefits of a CFL franchise is outlined very clearly Just simply do some research on what it does for the city of Regina!

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

Many in my family also speak Chiac, doesn't mean I should say its a nice dialect when it really isn't. True Acadian French should be maintained, and Chiac should be looked down upon.

And Quebecers look down upon all Acadian French.

But I don't care about that. I enjoy the varieties of language, despite people's hatred toward them.

[cormiermax]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

And Quebecers look down upon all Acadian French.

But I don't care about that. I enjoy the varieties of language, despite people's hatred toward them.

Where did you hear that Quebecers look down upon proper Acadian French? Iv never heard this. Acadian French actually sounds better than Quebec French, the accent is much cleaner.