PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Retrofit Allegheny Center? That would be a colossal waste of time. I say take a wrecking ball to that 1960s monstrosity and start over.

I'd be fine with that, but if the owners wanted to keep most of the structure in place (which is in fact being used) but would allow opening up a passage for Federal Street, I'd also accept that as at least a temporary measure.

Would anyone favor moving Pittsburgh's primary intercity train station to a completely new structure between Federal and Sandusky Streets?

Not until we had actually invested in getting real intercity train service somewhere.

There was an article recently involving a possible consolidation of 10 public transit agencies into one entity. Anyone think there would be a higher possibility of regional rail service with a "SWEPTA?"

I think it could well be harder to get any sort of commuter rail done if the regional agencies are consolidated. I just don't see the other counties in the area (outside of Allegheny) having much interest in such a project.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'd be fine with that, but if the owners wanted to keep most of the structure in place (which is in fact being used) but would allow opening up a passage for Federal Street, I'd also accept that as at least a temporary measure.

I know PNC is one of the main tenants, and the word is they likely will relocate to the Tower at PNC Plaza when it's built according to some articles a while back in both the PG and Trib.

Not until we had actually invested in getting real intercity train service somewhere.

Fair enough. I still think we need to improve our ties with Cleveland and points west. I also agree that we need to improve our infrastructure linking points east as well. Yes, building 168 new miles of passenger rail infrastructure might be prohibitively expensive, but there are several benefits that you cant put a finite dollar value on. At the same time, what about using the new infrastructure to generate millions and millions of new revenue through economic development as a direct result?

I think it could well be harder to get any sort of commuter rail done if the regional agencies are consolidated. I just don't see the other counties in the area (outside of Allegheny) having much interest in such a project.

It would be nice if these places could change their tune regarding rail in western PA. The region as a whole is on the cusp of economic rebirth. Jobs and population are reflecting that. It would be nice to establish some kind of real passenger rail connection, both regionally and intercity.

City planners everywhere are trying to invest in some form of rail transportation. As usual, Pittsburgh is always about some 50 years behind the curve. Rail can accomodate existing growth and promote future growth and development, especially in core communities. The Pittsbugh region does seem to have quite a few core communities that seem isolated from the city as well as each other...

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

I know PNC is one of the main tenants, and the word is they likely will relocate to the Tower at PNC Plaza when it's built according to some articles a while back in both the PG and Trib.
.

Can you source that? PNC Mortgage is located in Allegheny Center. I highly doubt PNC Mortgage will be relocated to the Tower at PNC Plaza.

[BrianTH]

Unfortunately, I don't think a majority of the people in the outlying counties are yet ready to embrace the economic development vision implied by investing seriously in regional rail. It doesn't help they are constantly and misleadingly being told the current relative health of the regional economy is all about Marcellus. I think we'll get there eventually, but it may take some cohort replacement in the regional electorate.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Can you source that? PNC Mortgage is located in Allegheny Center. I highly doubt PNC Mortgage will be relocated to the Tower at PNC Plaza.

I forget which article it was in, whether it was in the Trib or in the PG. But it was roughly a year ago; whenever this tower was announced. Come to think of it, it was probably just speculation circulating around the whole Tower at PNC proposal more or less; that PNC would be pulling employees from throughout the downtown area and consolidating them all in the Tower. One of those locations was Allegheny Center. Again, it probably was speculation...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Can you source that? PNC Mortgage is located in Allegheny Center. I highly doubt PNC Mortgage will be relocated to the Tower at PNC Plaza.

What I recall reading is that higher-level employees will be relocating from One and Two PNC, and other employees currently located in scattered Pittsburgh offices not in the PNC "campus" will be relocated to One and Two PNC, plus the Mellon Bank Branch they are converting.

I don't know if that notion includes some of the people currently in Allegheny Center, but if so they likely wouldn't be moving directly into the Tower, but rather into space freed up/added elsewhere in this new expanded "campus". Still, I think PNC has a lot of space in Allegheny Center (like 400,000 sqft or maybe more), so I am not sure it is plausible they would all be coming over.

Edit: By the way, I recall reading the occupancy rate in Allegheny Center was approaching 90% (PNC is one big tenant, but they have a lot of others), and rents had been rising. I know it is an eyesore and I hate its pedestrian-unfriendly lower levels, but I do think it is currently functional, and as such it may not be the best near-term project to tear it down entirely.

[Steel City Scotty]

According to this article from November of 2009, it looks like PNC Mortgage hasn't been in Allegheny Center for very long...

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2009/11/02/story2.html

Nov 2, 2009, 12:00am EST
PNC sets up mortgage services operation at Allegheny Center
Merger brings new opportunities

In recent months, Kevin Krasne has watched as cubicles at National City Bank’s mortgage services operation at Allegheny Center were removed, refurbished and replaced to make way for the bank’s new owner, PNC Financial Services Group Inc.

“They spent a ton of money re-outfitting all of their space and doing it in a very green way,” said Krasne, director of leasing for Allegheny Center.

Now, those recycled office materials will result in a major recycling of office space as PNC sets up its own mortgage services operation in Pittsburgh for the first time. The move also represents a significant shift in fortunes for Allegheny Center, filling out 320,000 square feet of office space with new activity and a new look. “It’s a monster change, and it’s a great thing for us,” Krasne said.

[Evergrey]

That's because PNC Mortgage was National City Mortgage before 2009.

[Steel City Scotty]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

That's because PNC Mortgage was National City Mortgage before 2009.

Yeah, I saw that in the article.

I was just saying that the company just recently took over that spot and made a new home for themselves in Allegheny Center Mall. The comments from executives indicated that they were thrilled about the location and were excited about all of the opportunities it had to offer.

Of course, from a P.R. standpoint, that's exactly what they should be saying, and we don't know if the company still feels the same way (or ever really did).

[Evergrey]

PNC is not gonna relocate PNC Mortgage from Allegheny Center to The Tower at PNC Plaza. In fact, PNC's mortgage unit in Allegheny Center isn't even the Headquarters of PNC Mortgage... which is located in Downers Grove, IL. It's just another regional mortgage office.

The new tower will house corporate functions, which are located in the current HQ One PNC. PNC also has units scattered among US Steel Tower and National City's former regional HQ at Stanwix and Ft. Pitt. These employees will likely be consolidated in any space freed up in One PNC or another PNC-owned property Downtown.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

PNC also has units scattered among US Steel Tower and National City's former regional HQ at Stanwix and Ft. Pitt. These employees will likely be consolidated in any space freed up in One PNC or another PNC-owned property Downtown.

Will those employees alone take up all the new space combined (including the Mellon Bank Branch, which I believe is slated for 800 employees)? I'm not saying I know otherwise, just curious if there are really that many scattered employees in Downtown alone right now.

[JClarke]

Hi all! Is there any prognosis for returning growth to Pittsburgh? I keep track of various major city populations and noticed that pitt has shrank big time since the 1950's. Does the city have any plans in place to rejuvinate the population? Im from MO. and have seen the same thing in St.Louis.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by JClarke

Hi all! Is there any prognosis for returning growth to Pittsburgh? I keep track of various major city populations and noticed that pitt has shrank big time since the 1950's. Does the city have any plans in place to rejuvinate the population? Im from MO. and have seen the same thing in St.Louis.

There's evidence that at least the metro area has started to reverse the decline and is growing in population. Can't seem to find specific data about the city itself but given that we have the lowest apartment vacancy rate in the country, probably means that the city is growing too.

[themaguffin]

According to the Census Bureau, the city has finally reversed its decline and is increasing.

[BrianTH]

I suspect the City population started growing late in the 'naughts. More importantly, though, the population of young, well-educated people in the City is booming, with the losses coming largely from the older, less well-educated population that dates to before the steel bust. That change in mix, which the overall population figures don't really capture, is what is driving the low rental vacancies, providing the rationale for redeveloping neighborhoods like East Liberty, and so forth.

[Steel City Scotty]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I suspect the City population started growing late in the 'naughts. More importantly, though, the population of young, well-educated people in the City is booming, with the losses coming largely from the older, less well-educated population that dates to before the steel bust. That change in mix, which the overall population figures don't really capture, is what is driving the low rental vacancies, providing the rationale for redeveloping neighborhoods like East Liberty, and so forth.

Does this sadden anyone at all?

I'm going to guess the answer is "No!," and as someone who would consider myself a "young, well-educated" person, I'm certainly glad that people like me are the ones who are moving to the city and helping to bring it back to life as a headquarters for technological breakthroughs in the fields of medicine, computers and robotics, just to name a few.

But, part of Pittsburgh's charm has always been that it's a "big city with a small-town feel," filled with good-hearted, blue collar workers ("good ol' boys") who talk a little funny and enjoy the simpler things in life. But, with the factories where they spent their days now being long gone, I guess it's inevitable that this older crowd will eventually die out and the impressive young professionals will replace them.

Like I said, I totally agree with anyone who replies to this message with something along the lines of, "This city has to evolve with the times" or "Without the influx of people in their 20s and 30s bringing their well-educated minds to Pittsburgh, the city will cease to exist." I plan to be one of those "minds" within the next few years.

I was just curious if anyone felt a little sentimental about the necessary change in demographics.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Steel City Scotty

I was just curious if anyone felt a little sentimental about the necessary change in demographics.

At least some, yes. Many changes will be for the better, but Pittsburgh is probably going to get a little less distinctive, a little less friendly, quite a bit more expensive, and so forth.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Steel City Scotty

But, part of Pittsburgh's charm has always been that it's a "big city with a small-town feel," filled with good-hearted, blue collar workers ("good ol' boys") who talk a little funny and enjoy the simpler things in life.

I wouldn't call Pittsburgh's older demographic who happened to be blue collar workers, "good ol' boys"... at least not in the present-day connotation of that term.

Even though for generations, so many Pittsburgh families worked in industries related to steel and heavy manufacturing, that doesn't mean that the notion that the city's populace was characterized by their enjoyment of the "simpler things" is accurate. I think that is naive in that it projects current understanding of what it means to be "blue collar" onto past generations... in an obviously very different time.

Basically, I just don't think your general understanding of Pittsburgh's (or many other "rustbelt" cities') population makeup was like in the past is very accurate.

[Jonboy1983]

Pittsburgh is still known as a friendly city. Hopefully if anything, these younger folks can adopt that from these "good ol' boys and girls." I would like to see Pittsburgh continue to differentiate itself from places like New York and Philly. Long term residents there are not exactly too outsider-friendly, based on personal experiences...

[Steel City Scotty]

I wasn't using "good ol' boys" in the negative context that it is often used in today (ex. "He's just a member of the 'good ol' boy' network."). Basically, I was using a literal version of the phrase, describing traditional Pittsburghers as "good, old" hardworking, down-home, red-blooded Americans.

I agree with Jonboy that I don't want the city to lose the image of being welcoming and friendly. I have no problem with Philadelphia, New York or D.C., but these are a few cities that have a reputation of being a bit elitist, with their residents projecting themselves as better than out-of-towners or country folk.

Again, I've never experienced that myself, but I know that line of thinking is out there.