General Updates and News

[someone123]

I really hope St. Pat's is handled better than the last school. Hopefully we'll see a decent mixed-use development and an attempt at creatively using the existing structure instead of more thoughtless demolition.

[Keith P.]

Oh, good. That will ensure it will go to a non-profit who cannot afford to maintain/upgrade it, which means we will be afflicted with another rundown building on a prominent corner.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Oh, good. That will ensure it will go to a non-profit who cannot afford to maintain/upgrade it, which means we will be afflicted with another rundown building on a prominent corner.

Exactly what I was thinking. Or asbestos community garden. Watts would love that.

There should be a 15-20 story development on this site with retail at street level and parking behind.

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian

Exactly what I was thinking. Or asbestos community garden. Watts would love that.

There should be a 15-20 story development on this site with retail at street level and parking behind.

If I'm not mistaken, it was a site identified for significant height in the work being done for the corridors within the Regional Centre plan.

[ILoveHalifax]

I would much prefer they bull doze the whole thing and start from scratch with some new exciting design. We have enough of our development framed by so called heritage and 1950's is not really signifigant heritage.

[Fischbob]

From taking a look at the school in Google Street View, I tend to agree with ILoveHalifax. There may be some heritage value to the building but I think that's outweighed by the site's current street presence: passive institutional walls, few entrances and large setbacks. Starting from scratch would allow for the extension of Quinpool's commercial streetscape as well as providing a nice shot in the arm for residential density in the area. Perhaps some parts of the building such as the auditorium could be retained and/or repurposed.

[MonctonRad]

There is nothing worth saving architecturally at Saint Pats. Better to bulldoze and start afresh with a good quality mixed use development with decent height.

Repurposing older buildings and/or preserving facades is a great idea for selected developments in the core, but Quinpool is an arterial street connecting to, but not intimately associated with the downtown. There is no need to do anything to preserve this relic of an old high school. It's falling apart anyway.

Some added height along the west side of the commons would be very nice, and would add to the urban appeal of the neighbourhood, as well as the skyline as seen from the commons. I would agree, something in the 18-25 storey range would be very nice. Just make it nicer than Quingate Place. I lived in the condos behind Quingate for four years and that is a pretty nondescript building......

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Repurposing older buildings and/or preserving facades is a great idea for selected developments in the core, but Quinpool is an arterial street connecting to, but not intimately associated with the downtown. There is no need to do anything to preserve this relic of an old high school. It's falling apart anyway.

.

Mmm, honestly though, and I don't say this to be argumentative, but repurposing older buildings and facades isn't great "for selected development." If the building in question is in any way substantial, it's usually the best choice--and that means economically as well. (Seriously, compare property values in heritage-rich inner-city districts with property values in heritage-deprived inner-city districts. With few exceptions, the former are usually higher, frequently enough that most urbanists and planners today infer a cause and effect scenario.)

It's funny to see how Halifax was late to the game with modern developments in the '50s-60s, and is now late to the game again as most other Canadian cities have pretty much stopped reckless demolition and come to value their finite supply of older structures. (I can't even think of a single significant heritage demolition in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal in the last few years. I can think of some crappy facadectomies and a few unfortunate fires, but no full-on tear-downs. But I can think of several impending BIG ones in Halifax, including tow full blocks of Spring Garden.)

Anyway,as you might expect, I also disagree that the 1950s isn't significant heritage. The building could be very handsomely restored. It is true that the building doesn't really add much to Quinpool though, from a commercial perspective, which is why I wouldn't get too up in arms about it. But I'd LOVE to see the auditorium saved. Great mid-century take on neo-classical, and there are so few grand theatres in the city.

[haligonia]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Anyway,as you might expect, I also disagree that the 1950s isn't significant heritage. The building could be very handsomely restored. It is true that the building doesn't really add much to Quinpool though, from a commercial perspective, which is why I wouldn't get too up in arms about it. But I'd LOVE to see the auditorium saved. Great mid-century take on neo-classical, and there are so few grand theatres in the city.

Yes! The auditorium is lovely, and would make for a great music/performance space if properly restored.

[someone123]

There have been lots of demolitions of heritage buildings in Toronto (a 15-20 storey 20's Art Deco office building is probably going to come down), Montreal, and Vancouver (which has very little left -- right now one big story here is the Waldorf Hotel) over the last few years. That doesn't make it right in Halifax, but actually the situation there is pretty typical (although I think it has more significant heritage buildings than most Canadian cities in terms of age, uniqueness, and national impact). Canada as a whole isn't that great about heritage preservation, and there's a bias toward preserving quaint buildings or buildings based on historical personalities or events rather than preserving buildings for the sake of maintaining urban character.

The "keep or demolish" question is a false dilemma. It might be possible to reuse part of the building. It's also not just a heritage issue, it's also an economic and environmental issue. The bottom line is that there doesn't seem to be enough information to decide whether or not to keep the building, even though some people always jump to the conclusion that it should be torn down and replaced. Back in the 1960's and 70's some people thought that just about every old stone building should be torn down because they inferior to new buildings. The 20's and 30's buildings in particular were not yet appreciated much, just as 50's buildings are not much appreciated today.

[MonctonRad]

I don't know anything about the auditorium at Saint Pats. If it is very nice, or if it has tremendous sentimental value then preserving the auditorium would certainly have to be a consideration. The auditorium at the Moncton High School is a major issue in terms of redeveloping that property.

Doesn't Saint Pats have an issue with asbestos? Wouldn't that caise major problems in trying to save this property?

[someone123]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Doesn't Saint Pats have an issue with asbestos? Wouldn't that caise major problems in trying to save this property?

It would take some detailed information and knowledge about trade-offs (how much it would cost to tear down the building or construct a replacement vs. fixing the problems) to decide whether or not it's worth dealing with.

To be honest I think asbestos is often used as an excuse for demanding new buildings. Mould is similar. Both of them are real health hazards to be sure but they also cause hysteria and they are convenient excuses.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't know anything about the auditorium at Saint Pats. If it is very nice, or if it has tremendous sentimental value then preserving the auditorium would certainly have to be a consideration. The auditorium at the Moncton High School is a major issue in terms of redeveloping that property.

Doesn't Saint Pats have an issue with asbestos? Wouldn't that caise major problems in trying to save this property?

Just about any office building, public, building, or school constructed or renovated between the the 1930s and early 1980s probably has some asbestos in it somewhere, as do lots of private homes. We all go in and out of asbestos containing buildings everyday, so I agree with Someone123 that asbestos is often used as an excuse for demolition. Scotia Square and all our 1970s bank towers are probably full of insulating asbestos.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by someone123

There have been lots of demolitions of heritage buildings in Toronto (a 15-20 storey 20's Art Deco office building is probably going to come down), Montreal, and Vancouver (which has very little left -- right now one big story here is the Waldorf Hotel) over the last few years.

Yeah, I just saw that art-deco one. Not a total demo, in that they're saving the facades on two sides, but the renderigs I've seen (a 16-storey deco tower stapled to one corner of a much larger glass tower) looks kinda stupid. Funnily enough, something like it was proposed in 200, and Christopher Hume wrote a column at the time condemning such facadism as outdated urban thinking—13 years ago!

But then there's stuff like this, which reminds me of impending development at 5262 Sackville (Strange Adventures). This building on Yonge was the subject of a demolition application last year by a developer who wanted to build a tower. The city quickly put through a heritage designation on it, and now the developer is going to dis-assemble it and then re-assemble it on the other side of the block, restored, at their own expense. It would be great to see developers take that sort of care here, as opposed to the Danny Chedrawes and Mickey MacDonalds, who think nothing of proposing the destruction of a whole block.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I don't know anything about the auditorium at Saint Pats. If it is very nice, or if it has tremendous sentimental value then preserving the auditorium would certainly have to be a consideration. The auditorium at the Moncton High School is a major issue in terms of redeveloping that property.

Doesn't Saint Pats have an issue with asbestos? Wouldn't that caise major problems in trying to save this property?

I don't remember what the inside of the st. Pat's auditorium is like but the exterior is by far the nicest part of that building (at least in its current state). It would be nice if the auditorium were saved for this reason and also because, outside of the universities, there aren't actually that many spaces like this in the city. I'm pretty indifferent as to whether they redevelop the exsisting (ruins of a) building or build something new, although if a substantial fix-up were done I could see this being converted into an interesting loft-style apartment building (much like Greenvale).

[musicman]

Last time i was in Saint Pats there was one whole wing that was closed off... The building is in deplorable shape and has been basically left to rot for the last 20 or so years. Even when there were students in it. There are beams in there that i'm sure you could punch through with a chipping hammer. It is very unfortunate that it has been left to basically wast away..

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by musicman

Last time i was in Saint Pats there was one whole wing that was closed off... The building is in deplorable shape and has been basically left to rot for the last 20 or so years. Even when there were students in it. There are beams in there that i'm sure you could punch through with a chipping hammer. It is very unfortunate that it has been left to basically wast away..

Even when I was a student at St Pat's in the early '70s it was in bad shape, especially the seating area. I can only imagine what it is like now. A number of years ago HRSB stripped the sandstone off most of the building, leaving the ugly mess it now is, because it was apparently either a safety hazard or was hiding leaky walls. I would think the lack of maintenance of the structure must be severe by now.

[musicman]

The sandstone is actually on citadel high... they took distinctive parts from both schools it replaced.

[SekishikiMeikaiHa]

Marriott Renovations, Front Entrance:

[worldlyhaligonian]

You have to be out of your mind to think that St. Pat's auditorium or anything aside from exterior sandstone features should be saved.

That who site needs to be redeveloped. Sell it to a developer, demolish it, and build residential capacity. No wonder rent is so high in the city, we have no decent apartments in this area. Its either homes or shady units in Quinpool towers.