The future of Ottawa's Transit

[eternallyme]

The O-Train has had ZERO problems today, so a great argument for rail. Meanwhile, buses are virtually stalled, with even the Transitway seeing stuck buses.

[matty14]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

A lot of the traffic on Bank goes through it (to south of Billings), not to Centretown or the Glebe, so a subway would most probably be used in the same way.

I tend to disagree with this especially during the peak hours when there are extra trips on the 1 that are short turned at Billings and Rideau. I take the 1 a lot and more often than not it:

1. is at least at sitting capacity by the time it goes through Somerset (SB) or Billings (NB), and
2. Stops almost every single time at Slater, Somerset, Gladstone, Flora, Chamberlain, Glebe/First, Third, Fifth, and Sunnyside to pick up and drop off.

I don't have any actual ridership numbers in front of me but my slightly educated guess is that ridership in the Wellington <--> Billings corridor is quite decent. Adding a quicker and more convenient underground LRT would increase that significantly IMHO, and with the new Lansdowne, it will experience even more usage. Does it justify the cost right now? Probably not, but I think 30+ years in the future it could be a main North-South LRT line.

Originally Posted by Aylmer

Much of the traffic which currently uses Bank could be diverted onto a SE LRT line along the current 97 Transitway.

I totally agree with this. Am I the only one who thinks that the city not having the potential for the SE Transitway to be converted to rail is a big mistake? As of right now, it appears to me that the current SE Transitway will "T-Bone" the Hurdman station so there will be no way to have the SE Transitway be converted to rail and continue downtown, at least not without completely rebuilding the station or having awful transfer points. So the plan seems to be to have passengers from the south take their bus to Greenboro, transfer to the O-Train, and then transfer again at Bayview to get downtown. I suppose you could have all local buses that currently terminate at Greenboro continue to Hurdman, but I feel like that would add significant operating costs.

I believe the current O-Train line should be a secondary LRT that could be extended to Gatineau in the future. The way passengers from the south should be getting to downtown Ottawa is by a converted SE Transitway. The benefits to this being that it could join up with the Confederation Line at Hurdman and continue downtown (reducing transfers for southern passengers) and it can double the frequency of trains running through the Hurdman <--> Lincoln Fields spine (much like the Vancouver SkyTrain where the Waterfront <--> Columbia corridor is shared by the Expo and Millenium Lines).

Ideally, I would have had the city build the main spine between Hurdman and Lincoln Fields first (scrap the Hurdman <--> Blair section until a later phase), that way the main line can build up ridership, both tunnels get done at once (the second tunnel being whatever amount of inevitable tunneling required to get the trains onto the Byron corridor), and Hurdman and Lincoln Fields CAN be designed as big, overbuilt transfer stations, because 25-30 years in the future they still will be (unlike Tunney's and Blair which will eventually become simple main line stations like the rest of them). Extensions and separate lines that converge at Hurdman/LF can be built in later phases.

[matty14]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

My thought for a Carling-Downtown streetcar line...

Totally off topic but what program do you use to draw these maps? Illustrator? Looks really nice.

[eemy]

Originally Posted by matty14

Totally off topic but what program do you use to draw these maps? Illustrator? Looks really nice.

I was going to ask the same thing. They look really sharp.

[Kitchissippi]

Yup, they're done on Adobe Illustrator. Aylmer asked me the same question a while back and I think he's using it now, too.

[Cre47]

The more we see buses stuck during the winter... the more genius is Andy Haydon's vision of transit... geeeez.

[Aylmer]

Nope, I'm on inkscape.

Here's some of my impressions quickly thrown together. I'll probably finish a whole map within a few weeks of adding a bit here and there.

I would have two lines going south - A Riverside-Hull line that runs on the old railway to Chaudière and along Laurier to the Museum and an Airport line that runs directly into the city core and continue on to Barrhaven via Nepean.
For Nepean, I would compliment the E-W line and the Nepean-Airport line with a Carling Tramway and a smaller-capacity line along Bronson and Heron, then up through Alta Vista.

I also added some STO Tram lines (or, God forbid, Rapibus) to the mix with links to Lincoln Fields via Deschênes, Bayview via PoW and Sparks st via ROW on Portage.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Rail would be king on a day like today...especially underground rail.

A basic LRT system of a few lines could have gotten most people out of downtown to a station in their general neighbourhood pretty easily. OCT would mostly have to worry about local bus routes from those stations. Instead we had buses stuck all over the transitway. Montreal road had multiple #12's stuck on every hill climb.

Those artics sure suck in snow. I had a chat with my councillor about that today so he's well aware.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

A basic LRT system of a few lines could have gotten most people out of downtown to a station in their general neighbourhood pretty easily. OCT would mostly have to worry about local bus routes from those stations. Instead we had buses stuck all over the transitway. Montreal road had multiple #12's stuck on every hill climb.

Those artics sure suck in snow. I had a chat with my councillor about that today so he's well aware.

The problem is, there are not enough 40-foot buses to pull all the artics from service on days like today without impacting service levels. They would need to reduce service by over one-third somehow as 359 buses (and high capacity buses) would be out of service (based on spare ratio, about 300 to 320 in-service buses) with no replacement. Such would be very difficult unless a lot of people stay home - they could remove all the express and school trips to get to that, and even then that may not be enough. During off-peak periods, they probably have enough buses to run all 40-footers, although the double deckers may have to go on undesirable trips (ideally on routes like the 95) during midday and evening service as well.

On weekends, it is a lot easier as there are certainly enough 40-foot buses to run a Saturday or Sunday service.

I also think they should look into chains for the 40-foot buses and Para Transpo vehicles to improve traction further, and pre-set detours and deviations should be planned and proactively applied.

[waterloowarrior]

saw this on facebook

[matty14]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

I also think they should look into chains for the 40-foot buses and Para Transpo vehicles...

I'm almost positive tire chains are illegal in Ontario.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The problem is, there are not enough 40-foot buses to pull all the artics from service on days like today without impacting service levels. They would need to reduce service by over one-third somehow as 359 buses (and high capacity buses) would be out of service (based on spare ratio, about 300 to 320 in-service buses) with no replacement. Such would be very difficult unless a lot of people stay home - they could remove all the express and school trips to get to that, and even then that may not be enough. During off-peak periods, they probably have enough buses to run all 40-footers, although the double deckers may have to go on undesirable trips (ideally on routes like the 95) during midday and evening service as well.

On weekends, it is a lot easier as there are certainly enough 40-foot buses to run a Saturday or Sunday service.

I also think they should look into chains for the 40-foot buses and Para Transpo vehicles to improve traction further, and pre-set detours and deviations should be planned and proactively applied.

I would never advocate pulling the artics off the road during rush hour. The drop in service would be detrimental.

Another issue is snow clearing. a few passes of a plow on Montreal road would have gone a long way to help prevent the buses from getting stuck.

I got home quite late to find my neighbourhood side streets were better plowed than the main roads.

What boggles my mind is that buses got stuck on the Transitway. Isn't the Transitway top priority for plowing?

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by matty14

I'm almost positive tire chains are illegal in Ontario.

They are banned in urban areas for sure. I'm unsure about their legality in rural areas though.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

I would never advocate pulling the artics off the road during rush hour. The drop in service would be detrimental.

Another issue is snow clearing. a few passes of a plow on Montreal road would have gone a long way to help prevent the buses from getting stuck.

I got home quite late to find my neighbourhood side streets were better plowed than the main roads.

What boggles my mind is that buses got stuck on the Transitway. Isn't the Transitway top priority for plowing?

Detrimental? How does NO service compare to such due to stuck buses and backlogs?

The rate the snow was falling, plows would have to run pretty much CONSTANTLY to keep the buses from getting stuck, and they don't have anywhere near enough of them without making local and even collector roads impassable. Snow was falling at the rate of 3 to 5 cm an hour during the rush hour and it was very heavy and wet.

Leading buses with plows works in cases of infrequent buses, but not during rush hour when even the Transitway is problematic.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Detrimental? How does NO service compare to such due to stuck buses and backlogs?

The rate the snow was falling, plows would have to run pretty much CONSTANTLY to keep the buses from getting stuck, and they don't have anywhere near enough of them without making local and even collector roads impassable. Snow was falling at the rate of 3 to 5 cm an hour during the rush hour and it was very heavy and wet.

Leading buses with plows works in cases of infrequent buses, but not during rush hour when even the Transitway is problematic.

So you suggest we replace 60' artics with less frequent 40' buses? I can tell you that for route #12 that isn't a viable option. That route is often standing room only during rush hour on the best of days. And on crappy weather days even more people take the bus.

As for plowing, maybe have the plows do an extra pass at known problem areas. Every major snow storm a #12 bus will get stuck going uphill on Montreal rd just passed Carson. the city should keep track of where their buses get stuck to establish these patterns.

[matty14]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

They are banned in urban areas for sure. I'm unsure about their legality in rural areas though.

They are. Just looked up the Highway Traffic Act.

Section 69:

(2) No vehicle shall be operated or object moved over or upon any highway with any flange, rib, clamp or other device attached to its wheels, or made a part thereof, which will injure the highway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 69 (2).

So tire chains = not an option.

[Kitchissippi]

Next time I drive over a pothole, I shall have sympathy for the injured highway.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Next time I drive over a pothole, I shall have sympathy for the injured highway.

LOL, the choice of words in the law is comical.

[Catenary]

So since:
1. Artics are required to maintain the level of service on a regular day and in the snow
2. Snow tires are out
3. Other aids are out (chains)
4. The plows are already doing their best

It would seem that one of the last remaining options is to simply get the stuck buses moving again faster. As far as I know OCT only has 3 Tow Trucks, and I can't imagine contractors are going to be easy to come by in the middle of a blizzard. This must mean incredible waiting times for stuck buses while the truck sets up and slowly winches the bus free to continue.

My solution is a small fleet of agricultural tractors. They're relatively cheap (compared to a tow tuck), versatile in all seasons, last forever, can be equipped with a plow to help out and are more than capable of dragging a kinked artic around a corner so it can get traction and continue on it's way. All that's needed is some chain, pull, and everything keeps moving.

This is of course fixing the symptom not the cause, but the cause is tricky. We know there will be a few days a year that get snow, might as well be better prepared.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Those artics sure suck in snow. I had a chat with my councillor about that today so he's well aware.

It's not just the artics. None of the buses stuck on Bank St. were artics as far as I could tell.

Vehicles will get stuck when the snow is that thick and heavy- there's just no way around it. Cars can be pushed out- buses not so easily.

I found that in Winnipeg they have an emergency snow plan where service is focused on key corridors during a snow storm. Maybe we need something similar here?

http://winnipegtransit.com/en/special/snowplan