Canadian City Proposals - Page 335

Nouvellecosse · #**6681** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 9:09 PM**

I'd say it depends on where it is. If it's an outer suburban area, it's just "typical" and probably wouldn't stand out. Anything closer in would be considered hideous.

SignalHillHiker · #**6682** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 9:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

I'd say it depends on where it is. If it's an outer suburban area, it's just "typical" and probably wouldn't stand out. Anything closer in would be considered hideous.

First of all, I LOVE your logic. Brilliant. And I completely agree with that reasoning.

Sadly, it is pretty close in. It's only about a 5-10 minute drive from the heart of downtown. BUT it is near the university and in an area considered modern, relatively suburban...

O-tacular · #**6683** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 9:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Edmonton's proposed new massive 'arts campus'.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BDvxPxWCIAASQ21.jpg:large)

(http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/8004657.bin?size=620x400s)

(http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/8004654.bin?size=620x400s)

EDMONTON - Key Edmonton philanthropists and businessmen are preparing to unveil plans for a new downtown arts campus and public plaza on Monday.

The plans call for a large, glass open-air atrium with a theatre and university arts campus just north of city hall, behind and beside the new Royal Alberta Museum.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Plans+leaked+open+arts+galleria+downtown/8004653/story.html

Beautiful! I'll have to make a trip up north one of these days. Stuff like this and the new AGA definitely bring the city up a few pegs.

MonkeyRonin · #**6684** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 9:32 PM**

Architecturally they're bland but inoffensive; its the landscaping (i.e. the sea of parking) that is truly horrid and is representative of taking a big shit on the city.

(edit: that was directed at the St. John's development)

jeddy1989 · #**6685** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 9:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Architecturally they're bland but inoffensive; its the landscaping (i.e. the sea of parking) that is truly horrid and is representative of taking a big shit on the city.

(edit: that was directed at the St. John's development)

just to put it in perspective this is where this proposal is:

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st.+john%C...1pqh5YLnFVKnpnDedRQ&cbp=12,15.94,,0,4.68

the parking lot already exists and is barely visible to anywhere in the city unless you are in the lane going right up to the buildings

Also in the origional area development plan there is suppose to be senior town houses in a ring between that parking lot and the laneway

this development will actually have 2-3 floors of parking in the podium type connecting structure with green space on top between the two condo towers

SignalHillHiker · #**6686** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 9:51 PM**

I agree that the surface parking lot is problematic... BUT... it's already there. AND they're building a parkade with a green roof between the two towers.

That's a wonderful first step.

This is the beginning of our residential density, beyond the rowhouse districts. It's just such a HUGE leap in the right direction by our standards. In the future, hopefully, this is very average and normal - as it would be in most large Canadian cities. But for us, at this point in time... this is a potential turning point.

This is the first time developers have felt confident bringing something like this here - and we have to make sure the rubber boot crowd doesn't derail it. We want this to be our new minimum for central residential development.

Chadillaccc · #**6687** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 10:23 PM**

Just so you know, 95% of other forumers don't know what "the rubber boot crowd" is. That's a St. John's thing

SignalHillHiker · #**6688** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 10:26 PM**

Oh, sorry!

Rubber Boot Crowd refers to misguided NIMBYs in downtown St. John's. Some people use the term to refer to all heritage protectionists and apply it to anyone who doesn't want to bulldoze old St. John's and erect Mississauga in its place.

But most of us use it to refer ONLY to those who are 100% opposed to building ANYTHING on any site downtown that wasn't already there before. So, you have an empty lot, they will protest if you don't rebuild Hanna's Grocery from the 1900s, or Smith's Tailors from the 1800s. ANYTHING else other than that, they act like we're bulldozing old town for a parking lot.

They are the unreasonable, unrealistic, uncompromising NIMBYs.

MonkeyRonin · #**6689** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 10:35 PM**

Okay, but why do they wear rubber boots?

SignalHillHiker · #**6690** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 10:38 PM**

Well, rubber boots are an actual thing here. Even fashionable young people wear them during fall/winter/spring. It's kind of like how Balkan people use umbrellas when it snows. It's a cultural quirk.

BUT they are associated with two groups of people in St. John's culture:

1. Working class downtown residents who just hate change.
2. Misguided downtown hippies who are opposed to any development that isn't a vegan community garden for wheelchair-bound immigrants.

So it was a natural thing for people in St. John's to attribute to anti-development people.

It would be like saying... "The Dreadlock Crowd" to refer to a pro-marijuana legalization group in Jamaica.

Copes · #**6691** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 10:47 PM**

Also keep in mind that this proposal is about 4 stories higher than anything in the city currently. These would easily be our tallest buildings. So, while agree that the buildings themselves are hardly beautiful... or in my opinion even attractive, they are well enough outside our downtown to not be offensive (or seen in skyline shots). Meanwhile, they DO set a precedent in our city for larger scale construction, and provide some density which is sorely lacking in that area of town.

And the rooftop garden is pretty cool and as far as I know, also a first of its kind.

So yeah, I completely agree, pretty ugly structures. BUT, when considering what it is and where it is proposed, it is an exciting proposal for our city as if it goes forward it will help push us in the right direction, without ruining our regular downtown skyline shot with some sub-standard towers.

Townie709 · #**6692** Posted **Feb 25, 2013, 11:13 PM**

About St. John's development:

It's not a hideous development. It's outside the downtown in a mainly suburban area. While the design is nothing special, it's certainly not hideous. Just simplistic. Also, keep in mind, these are not the final renders. Just a preliminary design. The parking is already there, so this design does not create more surface parking, but reduces it and greatly densifies the area.

A proposal such as this (16 story suburban residential) is hardly worth mentioning in bigger cities such as Toronto, Montreal or even Halifax for that matter, but for St. John's it's a big step forward in the right direction from our current practice of suburban sprawl and will be our first true highrise residential complex. This is the first of hopefully many more densifying residential proposals to come for St. John's.

So while the design isn't breathtaking and may not be considered a big project to many other fourmers, it represents a shift in the right direction for our small growing city. If built, the towers will be the third tallest in the city and will have a very positive impact on not only the skyline in that part of the city, but also how that part of the community functions as a whole. Whether the design is breathtaking, or simplistic, has no effect on what this development symbolizes and how it will positively impact that part of the city.

Chadillaccc · #**6693** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 12:32 AM**

It is actually pretty hideous... and while the area around it may feel suburban, it is in the city of St. John's and not very far from downtown, therefore, not suburban.

It's like something for Laval... or Longueuil.. whiechever one of those has those really narly shitboxes comprising its entire core.

Townie709 · #**6694** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 1:40 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

It is actually pretty hideous... and while the area around it may feel suburban, it is in the city of St. John's and not very far from downtown, therefore, not suburban.

It's like something for Laval... or Longueuil.. whiechever one of those has those really narly shitboxes comprising its entire core.

Actually, in the city of St. John's, the downtown is not a huge area. It is most certainly outside the downtown, located near the outer edge of the "urban core" and beginning of the suburbs. But Im sure you know much so more about my own city than I do, so I won't bother explaining..

Beauty is subjective. I don't feel it's anything special or unique, but I don't believe it's anywhere near hideous either. You can have your opinions and I'll have mine.

SignalHillHiker · #**6695** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 2:37 AM**

I have to agree with Townie on this one, Chadillac. I mean... remember our Hilton proposal? That's what hideous looks like.

This looks normal and fine by comparison.

And they're 16 floors... and twins... I'm doing my happy dance. Umph umph... oh yeah...

Chadillaccc · #**6696** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 2:43 AM**

Well, yes. When compared to the worst of highrise proposals our country has seen recently, then yes it's not terrible.

SignalHillHiker · #**6697** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 2:44 AM**

I'll take it!

Chadillaccc · #**6698** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 2:46 AM**

haha. and sorry Townie, I wasn't trying to be rude. Was just saying that it's hardly in the suburbs when it's still in the city itself. Isn't the site visible from downtown? Say like in one of Signals pano's of the city?

SignalHillHiker · #**6699** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 2:52 AM**

Chadillac - depending on the angle, it's possible to make them look very close to downtown or not very close at all.

In reality, by the standards of St. John's core urban area (not including separate municipalities in the suburbs), they are about half-way across the city from downtown, which is, of course, at the edge along the harbour.

Here is an angle that makes them look about as far from downtown as you could possibly make them look.

These towers will be in the middle of the yellow box at the right edge of the photo:

And here is an angle that will make them look VERY close to downtown. The buildings in the background of this shot are the existing ones in the yellow box above:

Old and New St. John's by Signal Hill Hiker Photography, on Flickr

PoscStudent · #**6700** Posted **Feb 26, 2013, 2:52 AM**

Here's better pictures of where the proposed condos are going, which are assisted living condos for seniors. It's a weird area because there are suburbs that are just outside of this view, but there's also a school, apartments, condos, a church, a long term care facility, and a strip mall all around here. The parking lots aren't great but may vanish over the coming years with more development.