Halifax Central Library | 27 m | 6 fl | Completed

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Everyone on this forum, from what I've seen, has acknowledged the library's grand budget. The public benefits, however, are enormous; and no one has to pay for tickets to get in, unlike what Haligonians will have to do to see games at a potential stadium, even after taxpayers foot the bill for its construction.

So what? HRM could build a stadium like they are building this edifice, with a "no limits" philosophy, and provide free access to all events held there on the taxpayer's tab. It is really not much different. Why the majority of taxpayers, who will never set foot in this monument to Judith Hare, are being forced to pick up the tab for her ego exercise is really quite unconscionable.

I wonder how much money will be raised once the campaign is launched.

I feel I can say with confidence that it will not be enough.

One wonders if there is any truth to the rumor that the street upon which it fronts is to be renamed "Queen Judith St."?

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It is really not much different. Why the majority of taxpayers, who will never set foot in this monument to Judith Hare, are being forced to pick up the tab for her ego exercise is really quite unconscionable.

I'd be very surprised if the majority of HRM taxpayers didn't set foot in the new library. Most people are, if not excited, at least interested in the project. It's not for a "select few" or "special interests", its for everyone. Most people (read: the majority of taxpayers) seem to be embracing it.

[DigitalNinja]

It's mostly for people in the downtown core. No one in my family has stepped foot inside the library since they lived downtown. I even go to University and never once have went in that building.

I don't think we should be giving a building to first nations, a people who don't even want to pay taxes. Taxes which came in place due to wars in which they did not want to partake in, and yet war is something that building stands for.

And another thing is that they are blocking economic progress of our nation. I am not super conservative, or anti-first nation but I am Pro-Canada anything that stands in the way of Canada's economy and potentially jobs I cannot agree with.

[FuzzyWuz]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

I even go to University and never once have went in that building.

Didn't take English I'm guessing.

[Nifta]

If it's to a legislative building for the Mi'kmaq, I'd love to see a 'heritage centre' component, in the style of the Glooscap Heritage Centre near Truro. It'd be a great tourist attraction during the Summer Months, especially for non-North American visitors who'll find this fascinating.

Having said this, a decent urban park would be nice, or preferably a civic square / general gathering place. Fountains etc. A nice central gathering point for people in the city. Not the ideal location for such a place though, since there's very little of interest to the public immediately surrounding it. It'd need some cafes at the minimum to make it lively. It'd be lovely for it to have a direct link to the new library, but that'd mean pedestrianizing Spring Garden Road. One can dream...

[DigitalNinja]

Originally Posted by FuzzyWuz

Didn't take English I'm guessing.

Nope, not when I major in Chinese and Japanese.

[Hali87]

Originally Posted by DigitalNinja

And another thing is that they are blocking economic progress of our nation. I am not super conservative, or anti-first nation but I am Pro-Canada anything that stands in the way of Canada's economy and potentially jobs I cannot agree with.

The Mi'kmaq, specifically? I'd love to see some evidence that the Mi'kmaq people, individually or as a whole, "are blocking economic progress of our nation"... "Our Nation" being the Non-Natives of Canada, I guess?

Then again, I'm no fan of Bill C-45 so maybe I'm not worth your time.

[Nouvellecosse]

I'm a bit surprised to hear people complaining about the new Library's budget. I for one am glad to see the government not penny pinching on a valuable public amenity. I'm so used to seeing historic public buildings that are grand, beautiful, and memorable, while all contemporary public buildings seem penny-pinched, downsized and utilitarian. It's almost like people have this attitude that the city was built 100 or 200 years ago, and all we should be doing today, is spending as little as possible to just maintain it.

It would be disrespectful to taxpayers if the money was wasted, in the sense of accounting irregularities, corruption, lack of transparent bidding etc. But for the government to spend it on a beautiful, centrally located, public facility that we can all be proud of an enjoy? There's nothing shameful or wasteful about that.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It would be disrespectful to taxpayers if the money was wasted, in the sense of accounting irregularities, corruption, lack of transparent bidding etc. But for the government to spend it on a beautiful, centrally located, public facility that we can all be proud of an enjoy? There's nothing shameful or wasteful about that.

It gets to a question of role and financial capacity. The provincial and federal govts are multiple orders of magnitude larger than HRM in terms of financial capacity. They are better equipped to build such monuments. HRM gets the majority of its revenue from property taxes, which are imposed supposedly to provide services to those property owners. That is the role of a city, not to build municipal monuments. Add to that the manipulation of the entire process by the head of the library and the concerns become even more important.

Incidentally, a read of the HRM library Board minutes over the last year or so make for interesting reading. Not only was the entire budget for this thing set without a final design or specification being determined, leading to the budget overruns we are now seeing, but also it seems Queen Judith and King Richard of Butts are apparently at such a level of disagreement over spending and finances that the Board has recommended that some dispute resolution process that HRM has adopted needs to be used to settle the differences between them. If true, good on Mr. Butts for standing up for the taxpayers.

[Duff]

Here is a picture I took with my cellphone from the 5th floor of the Maritime Centre.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

So what? HRM could build a stadium like they are building this edifice, with a "no limits" philosophy, and provide free access to all events held there on the taxpayer's tab. It is really not much different. Why the majority of taxpayers, who will never set foot in this monument to Judith Hare, are being forced to pick up the tab for her ego exercise is really quite unconscionable.

It's big of you to admit some difference.

The library's budget is not infinite; clearly, it has limits. The public benefits from the library, unlike what we'd get from a more expensive stadium, are obvious.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I feel I can say with confidence that it will not be enough.

They have most of the money already. And they haven't even started campaigning.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Duff

Here is a picture I took with my cellphone from the 5th floor of the Maritime Centre.

Thank you for this! I don't believe we've seen this angle yet.

[DigitalNinja]

The cantilever floor is going to look great once this is done!

[SekishikiMeikaiHa]

Weekly updates:

[fenwick16]

I am excited to see the steel cantilever section being constructed.

[someone123]

Apparently the steel "living room" section is essentially complete at Cherubini. They'll soon be mounting it on top of the existing concrete structure. The building exterior meanwhile is supposed to be completed by this summer.

[gm_scott]

Originally Posted by someone123

Apparently the steel "living room" section is essentially complete at Cherubini. They'll soon be mounting it on top of the existing concrete structure. The building exterior meanwhile is supposed to be completed by this summer.

Fantastic, shouldn't be too long then. if you don't mind me asking how do you get your information? If I'm being too nosy just ignore this post

[pblaauw]

Originally Posted by someone123

Apparently the steel "living room" section is essentially complete at Cherubini. They'll soon be mounting it on top of the existing concrete structure. The building exterior meanwhile is supposed to be completed by this summer.

How are they going to move it from Cherubini to the library site? Are they going to take it apart and truck it in pieces? I can't imagine them being able to move such a large structure all in one piece.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Except it's not for budget overruns. All tenders awarded are reported to be within budget. This is an ask to up the quality of materials... vinyl floor to wood, acoustic tile ceiling to linnear metal, etc. If the increase wasn't granted, they would have continued with the design as tendered.

Odd - considering I would have expected the cost estimating to include premium finish rates in the $$ per sq. ft. Still, I'm sure that there is a range of cost/sq. ft considered appropriate for public buildings, and while vinyl and acoustic tile tend not to be utilitarian, they could be considered appropriate for a lower-profile civic structure.

Despite the stated intent for the upgrade to be paid for via fundraising, there is the risk that the money won't be raised, and the municipality will have to provide the additional money itself.

Okay? But everybody cries foul over the convention centre (mostly paid for by the feds, aka non-NS tax dollars).

I'm just trying to illustrate that public spending, budgeted or not, has been cited as a reason not to build Nova Centre or the stadium. The reality is that everything costs money.

I'm okay with it, but Keith did beg the question that other funds would be sought.

Its hypocritical for people to be for this project and against the others. Libraries, commerce centres, and stadiums are all important... that is why any REAL city has them all.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

Except it's not for budget overruns. All tenders awarded are reported to be within budget. This is an ask to up the quality of materials... vinyl floor to wood, acoustic tile ceiling to linnear metal, etc. If the increase wasn't granted, they would have continued with the design as tendered.

Odd - considering I would have expected the cost estimating to include premium finish rates in the $$ per sq. ft. Still, I'm sure that there is a range of cost/sq. ft considered appropriate for public buildings, and while vinyl and acoustic tile tend not to be utilitarian, they could be considered appropriate for a lower-profile civic structure.

Despite the stated intent for the upgrade to be paid for via fundraising, there is the risk that the money won't be raised, and the municipality will have to provide the additional money itself.

If you read the library Board minutes from the past year, they contain the admission that the tenders for certain trades came in over budget by about $2 million. They blamed collusion among the contractors. Who knew?

Also in those minutes is the info that they did not prepare a detailed cost estimate of the palace before making the budget ask. They used notional estimates and comparable projects but did not do a line by line detailed construction budget. That is why I expect far more such items in the future and would expect that the total budget will be far in excess of the stated $55 million.