LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 4.0

[Easy]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

Plans were submitted for 1200 S Grand and 1211 S Olive. Seven floors/20,000 sq ft of retail each. 347 and 293 units.

And parking for 320 and 275 spaces. Maybe the first time that a new building had fewer parking spaces than units.

[Easy]

Does anyone know what's going on in the parking lots across Grand from LATTC? They are dug up and it looks like something has broken ground. I went to the college website and it looks like the only thing that they had for that side of Grand was a parking garage that looks like its already completed and just north of the lots under construction.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Gram3000

My only gripe is with these developers...Why do they have to use the whole lot for their squatty developments instead of a portion, then allowing another to come and possibly build higher on the rest of the lot? It makes the block look like it grew organically instead of instantly, this is what adds to the urban fabric!

I agree. This is what's happening with 8th and Grand. It's not the height necessarily that bothers me, it's the size of the lot they occupy.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

I agree. This is what's happening with 8th and Grand. It's not the height necessarily that bothers me, it's the size of the lot they occupy.

Agreed as well. It's like a horizontal skyscraper and contributes to a monolithic appearance, unless they somehow design in some variation without being hokey. Boston has several of these block-size monoliths and they're just too big and kind of oppressive. This design looks better than those, but I still think it might be too homogenous given the lot size.

[blackcat23]

Originally Posted by brudy

Agreed as well. It's like a horizontal skyscraper and contributes to a monolithic appearance, unless they somehow design in some variation without being hokey. Boston has several of these block-size monoliths and they're just too big and kind of oppressive. This design looks better than those, but I still think it might be too homogenous given the lot size.

This is true, but it's probably the only way these projects can pencil out. You want to save money by building with wood instead of steel/concrete, but you can only fit so many units inside of seven stories...so you build wider.

I'm curious to know how they're going to handle parking. Ideally, they put it underground. If not, maybe a parking structure with ground floor retail?

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by blackcat23

I believe those are intended for the large surface lot on the north side of 12th street.

I have a hunch the average person, now & well into the future, isn't going to be if astani's new apt proj, or just about any other proj in dt, is too short, too horizontal or too monolithic. I have a sneaking suspicion the average person is gonna have a bigger problem with the hood cuz it's about as exciting & attractive as this....



maps.google.com


^ that's what ppl in the evo condo tower & nearby AT&T bldg have been looking out over for a long time. I'm sure they're anxious & ready for change. and that lot is but the tip of the iceberg.

[DJM19]

8th and Grand would not bother me if it was 5 different buildings on that site. Its too monolithic.

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by DJM19

8th and Grand would not bother me if it was 5 different buildings on that site. Its too monolithic.

On the bright side, it'll activate the whole block.

Originally Posted by citywatch

I have a hunch the average person, now & well into the future, isn't going to be if astani's new apt proj, or just about any other proj in dt, is too short, too horizontal or too monolithic. I have a sneaking suspicion the average person is gonna have a bigger problem with the hood cuz it's about as exciting & attractive as this....



maps.google.com


^ that's what ppl in the evo condo tower & nearby AT&T bldg have been looking out over for a long time. I'm sure they're anxious & ready for change. and that lot is but the tip of the iceberg.

Sorry, but I don't think the average person cares about parking lots either. From all the your posts I've read, I think your attitude is "Take anything we can get because anything is better than those horrible parking lots".

[202_Cyclist]

Pink Floyd:

Sorry, but I don't think the average person cares about parking lots either. From all the your posts I've read, I think your argument is "Take anything we can get because anything is better than a parking lot".

You absolutely should care about parking lots.

Cars and robust cities are fundamentally incompatible
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute...ies-are-fundamentally-incompatible/4651/

People, Parking, and Cities
http://shoup.bol.ucla.edu/People,Parking,Cities.pdf

[Valyrian Steel]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Pink Floyd:


You absolutely should care about parking lots.

Cars and robust cities are fundamentally incompatible
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute...ies-are-fundamentally-incompatible/4651/

People, Parking, and Cities
http://shoup.bol.ucla.edu/People,Parking,Cities.pdf

Oh, I agree. But the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the average person who works or visits downtown is bothered by surface parking lots like citywatch implies, certainly not so much so that we should build 100 cookie cutter low-rises to fill them. I'd rather wait a little bit longer if it means we get denser development and quality architecture.

[ConstructDTLA]

Originally Posted by Pink Floyd

Oh, I agree. But the point I was trying to make was that I don't think the average person who works or visits downtown is bothered by surface parking lots like citywatch implies, certainly not so much so that we should build 100 cookie cutter low-rises to fill them. I'd rather wait a little bit longer if it means we get denser development and quality architecture.

If they are not consciously bothered by big empty spaces / parking lots then CERTAINLY it takes a toll on their subconscious perception of downtown.


About a month or so ago I saw a big silly furniture store on Flower closing its doors and moving out. Just when I thought we'd be blessed with another 10k square feet of empty retail this news:

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — A new USC medical clinic and pharmacy is slated to open on Flower Street in downtown L.A. in the same structure as the YAS fitness studio.

CIM Group announced on Tuesday that the Keck Medical Center of USC has signed a lease for 7,500 square feet of ground floor space at 830 S. Flower Street. The 10-year lease wil be used for a USC-run healthcare clinic to provide "downtown residents and employees with easy access to general and specialty medical care."

.....

The new clinic will be called "Keck Medical Center of USC – Downtown," and be part of a redeveloped six-story building that includes approximately 18,925 square feet of ground floor commercial space and 602 parking spaces.

Trinidad said they hope to have completed construction on the Keck center by August 2013 and begin taking patients in September.

http://blogdowntown.com/2013/02/7137-usc-to-open-new-clinic-and-pharmacy-in-dtla

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Pink Floyd

Sorry, but I don't think the average person cares about parking lots either. From all the your posts I've read, I think your attitude is "Take anything we can get because anything is better than those horrible parking lots".

pinkfloyd, actually, if the average person is indifferent about parking lots, then I'd estimate they're gonna be 10 times more oblivious towards whether a new devlpt is lowrise instead of highrise, or certainly whether it's monolithic or in small units. If anything, ppl who are gonna be about a proj being too wide or too monolithic sound more like the type who'd rather live in the burbs.

I posted the following a few days ago but am reposting it again cuz it's a fascinating look at what dt was like several yrs ago....how new housing, at least for ppl who weren't low income, really was an untested idea in much of dt not too long ago.

This devlpr was a pioneer....along with Tom Gilmore in the OBD....in creating large amts of new housing in dt in one fell swoop. So you'll have to admit that if what he's offered to prospective residents in dtla has managed to grab their attention & then hook them, then it fits my belief that the average person definitely won't be fussing about the hood the way urban purists....here or elsewhere....do.



ghpalmer.com


ghpalmer.com


^ the phrase "no accounting for taste" does come to mind. But it again fits my hunch that the average person, even in dtla, definitely won't be going cuz some new proj in the hood doesn't conform to a purist's desire for greater height, sleek urban design or hipster trends & layouts.

[Kingofthehill]

parking lots

[Mojeda101]

Originally Posted by DJM19

8th and Grand would not bother me if it was 5 different buildings on that site. Its too monolithic.

Yep. Only building I don't like so far in the current boom. That area could have easily been utilized to suit 4 high rises to activate the cityscape. But what I've read on other booms, once the majority of the land is used and lots are scarce, they will reach for the stars in terms of height. Let's hope that applies to Los Angeles.

[JDRCRASH]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

Yep. Only building I don't like so far in the current boom. That area could have easily been utilized to suit 4 high rises to activate the cityscape. But what I've read on other booms, once the majority of the land is used and lots are scarce, they will reach for the stars in terms of height. Let's hope that applies to Los Angeles.

This makes some sense. Utilize as much of the space you have left as possible without worrying too much about height, and then go from there.

And ultimately, I think this characterizes the Los Angeles area's situation in general. Due to geography and increased wilderness protection from animal/environment activists, the region overall is more or less built out.

Save for scattered new tracts of homes reaching deeper into the hills, and the occasional mega development (i.e. Newhall Ranch), sprawl is about to reach a wall (if it hasn't already).

[Brandyn]

Originally Posted by JDRCRASH

This makes some sense. Utilize as much of the space you have left as possible without worrying too much about height, and then go from there.

And ultimately, I think this characterizes the Los Angeles area's situation in general. Due to geography and increased wilderness protection from animal/environment activists, the region overall is more or less built out.

Save for scattered new tracts of homes reaching deeper into the hills, and the occasional mega development (i.e. Newhall Ranch), sprawl is about to reach a wall (if it hasn't already).

I am up here in Santa Clarita, and we are out basically out of space for new sprawl besides Newhall Ranch. Our One Valley One Vision plan is designed to accomadate 500,000 people living in the Santa Clarita Valley at full build out. It is crazy, because 30 percent of the people who live here commute out of the Santa Clarita Valley to work. We will need jobs here & that means an Urban core of some sort.

[pwright1]

Originally Posted by Kingofthehill

I like that Coco Laurent signage. Looking forward to trying Figaro (and Bar Ama, of course!) one of these nights - has anybody been?

I ate at both Figaro and Coco and i thought the food was excellent, especially at Figaro's.

[colemonkee]

I don't think anyone on this forum prefers what is being built at 8th and Grand to what was originally proposed by Sonni Astani. That proposal was superior in design, density, and effect on the skyline. But what's being built will still be a huge boon to the immediate area (and the surrounding areas), so it's still a win, at least in the short term, for downtown. And as Mojedo pointed out, the success of this - and it's relatively short height - will make the remaining surface lots surrounding it more attractive to higher density development as they will be in the middle of a more vibrant neighborhood and will have relatively protected views (a major selling point).

My only regret in this current iteration is that it's not being built to the density it was originally entitled for. I think this is a long-term mistake given its proximity to the 7th/Metro station one block away. Hopefully some of that unused density can be transferred to the surface lots across the street, and that the developers who eventually build there are savvy enough to request that from the City.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Mojeda101

once the majority of the land is used and lots are scarce, they will reach for the stars in terms of height.

if ppl in LA nitpick or feel about new projs not fitting their ideal....as not being as good as they'd like based on some sort of criteria....many, many yrs in the future, that will be one thing....that will be understandable. But regrettably I think we're a long way off from much of the land being filled up....fixed up....as you describe...



theurbanobserver.com


^ how quickly or slowly that image becomes out of date depends on how quickly or slowly ppl move to dt, how quickly...or slowly....new businesses & stores move there too. I don't have a crystal ball, but I suspect that current trends won't change so dramatically in the immediate future, that the hood will become like an urban version of the new burbs. I hope I'm wrong, but the past doesn't lead me to believe otherwise.

I remember visiting a sales ctr in Irvine....in the OC....several yrs ago. New housing projs were springing up like weeds. Huge amts of land....most of them formerly bean fields....were being filled in, left & right. I asked the sales rep where most of the new buyers were coming from & she said from all over.

If dtla can become an urban version of that, then my estimate of the time when it finally hits its stride will be sooner rather than later. however, right now, at least a proj like the brockman lofts, next to the now rising 8th & grand apt proj....based on brockman's website....while filling up somewhat quickly, still shows remaining unleased apts moving slower than what's needed for dt to be like a booming burb. I wonder what's going on at the Apex apt bldg?

btw, that image above doesn't even show all the parking lots & gaps around the civic ctr, around the OBD, on bunker hill, around little tokyo, & so on & so forth. There's plenty...plenty....of spaces that need filling in.

[brudy]

Originally Posted by citywatch

If dtla can become an urban version of that, then my estimate of the time when it finally hits its stride will be sooner rather than later. however, right now, at least a proj like the brockman lofts, next to the now rising 8th & grand apt proj....based on brockman's website....while filling up somewhat quickly, still shows remaining unleased apts moving slower than what's needed for dt to be like a booming burb. I wonder what's going on at the Apex apt bldg?

I would be wary of using the Brockman as a model for anything. 3k/month for an interior facing studio is only an indicator that people aren't willing to overpay.