New Downtown Calgary Arena

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Even if they go the cheapest option, this looks like it will be a great building, hopefully we don't end up with this.

Personally I liked the look of the American Airlines Center when I visited Dallas, so I wouldn't be opposed to Calgary getting something similar.

[Full Mountain]

So who gets the revenue under the new agreement? Previously the Katz group got it and was responsible for the maintenance, capital, etc. but it doesn't seem defined now. Seems like the EAC will get it but how is the EAC owned? Is it a city corp, a partnership, or a private enterprise?

[93JC]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

In a uni city CRLs are just an accounting method, when you have competing jurisdictions like Edmonton, you can actually change revenue outcomes.

What other jurisdictions is Edmonton competing against for... downtown Edmonton development?

[Spring2008]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

So who gets the revenue under the new agreement? Previously the Katz group got it and was responsible for the maintenance, capital, etc. but it doesn't seem defined now. Seems like the EAC will get it but how is the EAC owned? Is it a city corp, a partnership, or a private enterprise?

Katz gets all the revenue from the arena for the 35 year period.

He has had the city by the balls the whole time. Nice looking project and good to see some of those downtown parking lots finally getting developed, but listening to this fiasco for 7 years, this project appears to be a desperate ploy to generate private investment in the downtown area, and Katz has played it completely to his advantage.


Besides the over $300million in public contributions, Katz also wanted the nearby Bacarat Casino to close and for him to earn revenue on a new casino as part of the project. He also wanted to build an office tower and force the city to lease the whole building for him, and also that the city pay ~6million per year for 35 years to cover operating costs on the building because "he's not going to be earning enough to pay his utilities"

I don't know if those side stipulations still stand, but this project has been ridiculous.

[RicoLance21]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

Katz gets all the revenue from the arena for the 35 year period.

He has had the city by the balls the whole time. Nice looking project and good to see some of those downtown parking lots finally getting developed, but listening to this fiasco for 7 years, this project appears to be a desperate ploy to generate private investment in the downtown area, and Katz has played it completely to his advantage.


Besides the over $300million in public contributions, Katz also wanted the nearby Bacarat Casino to close and for him to earn revenue on a new casino as part of the project. He also wanted to build an office tower and force the city to lease the whole building for him, and also that the city pay ~6million per year for 35 years to cover operating costs on the building because "he's not going to be earning enough to pay his utilities"

I don't know if those side stipulations still stand, but this project has been ridiculous.

Katz abandoned both of these conditions. The new 50/50 deal may have been a factor as NHL owners like Katz gets a larger share of the revenue?

[Spring2008]

Calgary is in a different boat-the downtown has already and continues to see heavy private investment from various sources.

The Saddledome is only a bit more than 20 years old and already in the core. If King wants a new arena, I would imagine Calgary taxpayers are not going to budge at all.

The Core is getting really packed during rush hours. Trains, buses, sidewalks, streets are all mostly jammed packed at times. I like the busy feeling, but efficiency is key. The trains are getting really, really tight for space. If the city has extra cash or really any cash lying around at all, and wants to continue to attract heavy investment in the core, their primary focus should be mobility(Transit-Walking-Biking)

4 car trains(already being worked on), SE-NC lrt expansion as soon as possible, Streetscape improvements across the inner-city(ex.10th ave, under the train underpasses), separated bike lanes, increased bus frequencies. This would impact the quality of life of a much broader group of users than an arena, no?

[93JC]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

The Saddledome is only a bit more than 20 years old and already in the core.

30. The Saddledome is 30 years old.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

Calgary is in a different boat-the downtown has already and continues to see heavy private investment from various sources.

The Saddledome is only a bit more than 20 years old and already in the core. If King wants a new arena, I would imagine Calgary taxpayers are not going to budge at all.

The Core is getting really packed during rush hours. Trains, buses, sidewalks, streets are all mostly jammed packed at times. I like the busy feeling, but efficiency is key. The trains are getting really, really tight for space. If the city has extra cash or really any cash lying around at all, and wants to continue to attract heavy investment in the core, their primary focus should be mobility(Transit-Walking-Biking)

4 car trains(already being worked on), SE-NC lrt expansion as soon as possible, Streetscape improvements across the inner-city(ex.10th ave, under the train underpasses), separated bike lanes, increased bus frequencies. This would impact the quality of life of a much broader group of users than an arena, no?

Yes, and fortunately we have a council and a mayor that see the value in this over that of a new arena who someone else profits off of (corporate hand out anyone?)

[MalcolmTucker]

The thing is arena's are classic market failures. They cost too much and the activities they host aren't profitable in proportion to the cost.

I just hope personal seat licenses and advance box sales are able to fill in a big portion of the capital for Calgary.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

The thing is arena's are classic market failures. They cost too much and the activities they host aren't profitable in proportion to the cost.

Virtually no cultural institutions ever are. They're not built to turn a profit. The great lie was when sports teams tried to claim otherwise.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by RicoLance21

So, Calgary's new 20000-seat arena will be approved a year later?

It will be around 18,000, 18,500 tops. And I'd be very surprised if we see it completed within the next decade.

Then again, the Stampede re-development has a 2015 date on their signs now, so who knows. Maybe things aren't completely stalled in that area like they have been for years now (it's been so weird considering how the rest of the city hardly skipped a beat).

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Even if they go the cheapest option, this looks like it will be a great building, hopefully we don't end up with this.

Sadly this is exactly what I envision us getting. Though they won't actually spend the money to clad it completely in brick. Instead it will transition to mismatched stucco 1/3 of the way up like Montana.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

Sadly this is exactly what I envision us getting. Though they won't actually spend the money to clad it completely in brick. Instead it will transition to mismatched stucco 1/3 of the way up like Montana.

This and it will only get worse with age, I'm waiting for the wonderful orange to come out on Montana

[Doug]

As much as the design of the Edmonton arena is great and will enhance a bleak part of downtown, I hope the Province doesn't provide a cent of funding, MSI or otherwise. Pro sports is called pro sports for a reason, it intends to make money. This is a case of a brilliant business mind (Katz) pulling a fast one on government.

I wonder if Katz' $400K donation to the PC party will make the Premier think twice about handing over any money, especially in the face of a looming $6B deficit.

The City's contribution should come with an equity stake in the Oilers.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Wooster

If the Flames come looking for a similar deal - it will be tough. Calgary, for instance, has already spent every penny of MSI - so that's not even an option to throw into the mix like in Edmonton.

Calgary will just borrow the money. It is already headed down the path to 1970's style Montreal fiscal oblivion.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Doug

As much as the design of the Edmonton arena is great and will enhance a bleak part of downtown, I hope the Province doesn't provide a cent of funding, MSI or otherwise. Pro sports is called pro sports for a reason, it intends to make money. This is a case of a brilliant business mind (Katz) pulling a fast one on government.

I wonder if Katz' $400K donation to the PC party will make the Premier think twice about handing over any money, especially in the face of a looming $6B deficit.

The City's contribution should come with an equity stake in the Oilers.

This is the only way a deal like this should be considered by any government, with a pay back on the original investment over a specified period of time, with a way to recover the investment if the other party defaults

[libtard]

Calgary WISHES it could get a stadium of the same caliber as the AA Center

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by Doug

As much as the design of the Edmonton arena is great and will enhance a bleak part of downtown, I hope the Province doesn't provide a cent of funding, MSI or otherwise. Pro sports is called pro sports for a reason, it intends to make money. This is a case of a brilliant business mind (Katz) pulling a fast one on government.

I wonder if Katz' $400K donation to the PC party will make the Premier think twice about handing over any money, especially in the face of a looming $6B deficit.

The City's contribution should come with an equity stake in the Oilers.

I completely agree. Glad the Flames aren't trying this here. As much as I like the arena design I think the city of Edmonton and provincial taxpayers are being robbed by Katz.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by Doug

Calgary will just borrow the money. It is already headed down the path to 1970's style Montreal fiscal oblivion.

Borrow the money to help pay for a stadium? Very unlikely.

[Coldrsx]

^elaborate please.