PHILADELPHIA | The Development Thread VIII

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Is it the new LGBT Senior housing on 13th? What parking lot?

I think he means the small lot next to the William Way Community Center on Juniper and Spruce. There's been a mobile crane parked there for a couple of weeks. I know the Doubletree has some active construction permits for some kind of small structure above the parking garage, maybe its for that.


233 S BROAD ST PHILADELPHIA, PA
Permit Number
346455
Application Type
ADDITION PERMIT
Permit Type
ANC-ENTIRE STRUCTURE
Status
ACTIVE
Date Issued
September 13, 2011
Last Updated
January 8, 2013
Work Description
CONSTRUCTION OF NEW 3 STORY ADDITION, 5TH - 7TH FLOORS, ATOP EXISTING OPEN PARKING GARAGE(NON SPRINKLERED)/ SEPARATED USES, ACCESSORY DEMO AND ALTERATIONS AS PER SUBMITTED PLANS. HIGH RISE REDUCTION 2A CONSTRUCTION FOR NEW ADDITION, HIGH RISE PROVISIONS APPLY. ADD'L PERMITS REQ'D: SEPARATE SIDEWALK SHELTER PLATFORM ELECTRICAL, MECHANICAL, PLUMBING, SPRINKLERS
Contact Information
ALESKER & DUNDON ARCHITECTS LL
WILLIAM ALESKER
00718 ARCH ST
PHILA, PA 19106
Contact Type
APPLICANT
Contractor Information
L F DRISCOLL CO
9 PRESIDENTIAL BLV
BALA CYNWYD, PA 19004

[Jelly Roll]

Has anyone else on here read The Philadelphia Stock Exchange and the City It Made? I just finished the book and it is a fascinating read. It really outlines what happened to the city and why Philadelphia diminished from a global trade and world finance center into the regional city that it is today.

One thing that I found interesting is the book seems to imply that by the early 1920s the city was already in a state of decline and that if not for World War 2 the Philadelphia economy would have experienced decline 20-30 years earlier.

Another interesting thing that I learned from the book was that Philadelphia and Pennsylvania seemed to pioneer suburbs due to the Pennsylvania Rail Road Company and the massive investments that were made into state infrastructure which lead to many of the wealthy decamping for estates in Montgomery County and other suburban areas. The book also noted that around the same time Philadelphia lagged other major cities in attracting immigrants.

So has anybody else read it? If so what did you find interesting about it?

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

Has anyone else on here read The Philadelphia Stock Exchange and the City It Made? I just finished the book and it is a fascinating read. It really outlines what happened to the city and why Philadelphia diminished from a global trade and world finance center into the regional city that it is today.

One thing that I found interesting is the book seems to imply that by the early 1920s the city was already in a state of decline and that if not for World War 2 the Philadelphia economy would have experienced decline 20-30 years earlier.

Another interesting thing that I learned from the book was that Philadelphia and Pennsylvania seemed to pioneer suburbs due to the Pennsylvania Rail Road Company and the massive investments that were made into state infrastructure which lead to many of the wealthy decamping for estates in Montgomery County and other suburban areas. The book also noted that around the same time Philadelphia lagged other major cities in attracting immigrants.

So has anybody else read it? If so what did you find interesting about it?

Have not read it but your post sparked my interest. Where did you find it? Can I get it at the Barnes & Noble on Rittenhouse?

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Have not read it but your post sparked my interest. Where did you find it? Can I get it at the Barnes & Noble on Rittenhouse?

I had the Barnes & Noble in Marlton order it for me. It is a rather expensive book ($45) but I thought it was well worth it.

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

Has anyone else on here read The Philadelphia Stock Exchange and the City It Made? I just finished the book and it is a fascinating read. It really outlines what happened to the city and why Philadelphia diminished from a global trade and world finance center into the regional city that it is today.

One thing that I found interesting is the book seems to imply that by the early 1920s the city was already in a state of decline and that if not for World War 2 the Philadelphia economy would have experienced decline 20-30 years earlier.

Another interesting thing that I learned from the book was that Philadelphia and Pennsylvania seemed to pioneer suburbs due to the Pennsylvania Rail Road Company and the massive investments that were made into state infrastructure which lead to many of the wealthy decamping for estates in Montgomery County and other suburban areas. The book also noted that around the same time Philadelphia lagged other major cities in attracting immigrants.

So has anybody else read it? If so what did you find interesting about it?

Thanks! Interesting find

[apetrella802]

Phila was the largest and most important city from say 1750 to the first decades of the 19th c. when the opening of the Erie canal gave NY greater access to the rapidly developing interior lands particularly Chicago.Other factors like NY's harbor also were important in NY's rise to dominance. But as we know after losing the national capital and the state capital something miraculos happened. Phila became the center of indusrtial entrepreneurship so much so that by the time of the 1910 census when the US census showed 300 areas of industrial activity in the US Phila had firms active in 90% of them. Phila's industrial paradim was based on very high quality production and highly skilled labor. Rather than making simple structural steel beams like Pittsburg it made highly crafted marine steel products like propellors and ship building in general. The Stetson hat would last a life time or at least half a life time.
This paradim of high quality products produced by a highly skilled labor force was undermined by the post WWII need and desire for cheap rapidly produced products.

But I can tell you we are now living in a true renassaince based of course on other types of businesses and services. I am 68 years old so I remember CC when I was 16(1961). The ravages of the industrial decline had shrunk the boundries of CC considerable and decimated neighborhoods. But now this has been reversed in a dramatic fashion. Not just all the amenities for tourists but dramatic reinvestment in all ares of the city. This is exemplified by the population increases that have occured in the decade or so.

One very bad problem that is incidious is the fact the social welfare programs that had the best of intentions created a "cancer" that is not apparently getting better. We now had multiple generations of boys who have had no influence of a father. In the past of course there was always some percentage of boys who grew up without fathers, why do you think Steven Girard created Girard College, for exactly this problem. But in was overall a small percentage and society thought it very important to aid this situation. Because we men have high levels of testosterone society always worked to channel that energy into productive outlets through a father's influences. You might agrue that war is not a productive channel but without all this testosterone we would still be living in caves, eating only berries and nuts, and the world's population would be 60,000,000! No skyscrapers!

So never in human history have generations of boys been raised without fathers on a large scale!!! The so called "flash mob" probelm last Spring is in my view directly related to this issue and very few people want to talk about.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by apetrella802

Phila was the largest and most important city from say 1750 to the first decades of the 19th c. when the opening of the Erie canal gave NY greater access to the rapidly developing interior lands particularly Chicago.Other factors like NY's harbor also were important in NY's rise to dominance. But as we know after losing the national capital and the state capital something miraculos happened. Phila became the center of indusrtial entrepreneurship so much so that by the time of the 1910 census when the US census showed 300 areas of industrial activity in the US Phila had firms active in 90% of them. Phila's industrial paradim was based on very high quality production and highly skilled labor. Rather than making simple structural steel beams like Pittsburg it made highly crafted marine steel products like propellors and ship building in general. The Stetson hat would last a life time or at least half a life time.
This paradim of high quality products produced by a highly skilled labor force was undermined by the post WWII need and desire for cheap rapidly produced products.

But I can tell you we are now living in a true renassaince based of course on other types of businesses and services. I am 68 years old so I remember CC when I was 16(1961). The ravages of the industrial decline had shrunk the boundries of CC considerable and decimated neighborhoods. But now this has been reversed in a dramatic fashion. Not just all the amenities for tourists but dramatic reinvestment in all ares of the city. This is exemplified by the population increases that have occured in the decade or so.

One very bad problem that is incidious is the fact the social welfare programs that had the best of intentions created a "cancer" that is not apparently getting better. We now had multiple generations of boys who have had no influence of a father. In the past of course there was always some percentage of boys who grew up without fathers, why do you think Steven Girard created Girard College, for exactly this problem. But in was overall a small percentage and society thought it very important to aid this situation. Because we men have high levels of testosterone society always worked to channel that energy into productive outlets through a father's influences. You might agrue that war is not a productive channel but without all this testosterone we would still be living in caves, eating only berries and nuts, and the world's population would be 60,000,000! No skyscrapers!

So never in human history have generations of boys been raised without fathers on a large scale!!! The so called "flash mob" probelm last Spring is in my view directly related to this issue and very few people want to talk about.

Wow. What a segway. Keep in mind that one of the conditions in Steven Girard's grant was that only "poor, white, male, orphans" could be admitted to the institution. Blacks weren't admitted until the latter part of the 1960's. I don't see any correlation between this and Philadelphia's decline. Lack of a two-parent household is a consequence - not a cause - of industrial decline. Philadelphia's decline was caused by a whole panoply of factors, macro and micro-economic, social, political, demographic, geographic, ect. I believe we've all pinpointed most of them on this forum, we just need the political and social will to address them.

[SSBMEXPERT]

Ouch, it kinda pains me to read some of those last posts. I mean, I know things in Philadelphia weren't always kittens and rainbows, but I never thought the city fell behind mainly due to decline it created for itself. Rather, I thought it was simply past up by New York, mainly due to the lack of immigration and the access NY's harbors allowed.

Now that I know the city actually declined, it makes me feel a little sad. As if the city was cheated out of maintaining it's greatness. Even though it's history and all.

I mean I don't want Philadelphia to be another New York and I know that's not possible anyway (or at least extremely unlikely unless New York somehow stalls severely), but I do hope the city can someday get at least get back into things on a Global scale. ...Preferably in my lifetime.

[summersm343]

Received an email from Temple on the pricing of the rooms in the new 27 floor Morgan Hall:

One bedroom- $1,875 a month
Two bedroom - $1,741 a month per person
Four person apartment (shared bedroom)- $1,641 a month per person
Five person (personal bedroom)- $1,708 a month per person
Five person (shared bedroom)- $1,641 a month per person

[summersm343]

Looks like Tony Luke's will be opening up a spot in the Morgan Hall Retail complex

Here is more info in this Youtube video
http://youtu.be/wAF6E2Iw9Ps

[summersm343]

More info and renders here on the brochure.

http://www.temple.edu/studentaffairs/housing/core/files/033-1213MorganHallBro_FINAL.pdf

The 10 story (9 floors of Residential) "Morgan Hall South" will be open to Freshman only. The 27 story (24 floors of residential) "Morgan Hall North" will be open to Sophmore, Juniors and Seniors only.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by SSBMEXPERT

Ouch, it kinda pains me to read some of those last posts. I mean, I know things in Philadelphia weren't always kittens and rainbows, but I never thought the city fell behind mainly due to decline it created for itself. Rather, I thought it was simply past up by New York, mainly due to the lack of immigration and the access NY's harbors allowed.

Now that I know the city actually declined, it makes me feel a little sad. As if the city was cheated out of maintaining it's greatness. Even though it's history and all.

I mean I don't want Philadelphia to be another New York and I know that's not possible anyway (or at least extremely unlikely unless New York somehow stalls severely), but I do hope the city can someday get at least get back into things on a Global scale. ...Preferably in my lifetime.

The closing of the Second Bank of the United States was really the event that allowed NYC to surpass Philadelphia to such a great extent that it did. The bank closed in 1836 which eliminated Philadelphia as the primary bond market for what would today be US Treasury bonds. That event coupled with the death of Stephen Girad in 1831 took a lot of capital out of the Philadelphia finance market. At the time the US was the top financial market in the US with the largest banks located in Philly. As of the 1840 census Philly had a population of 93,665 compared to New York Cities 391,114. Obviously New York was much bigger by this time yet Philadelphia still ran the countries financial markets to a large degree.

The Civil War in which Philadelphia bankers underwrote much of the war helped keep Philadelphia on equal footing as a financial base but following the war a few key things happened. Drexel & Co closed after Francis Martin Drexel died and Anthony Joseph Drexel created a new bank in NYC called Drexel, Morgan & Co. When Anthony Drexel died the bank became J.P. Morgan & Co. Edward T Stotesbury was the main partner with J.P. Morgan after the death of Anthony Drexel but instead of investing his $100 million back into Philadelphia is squandered most of it dieing with less then $4 million dollars. J.P. Morgan at the time of Stotesbury's death was a completely NY firm by that point with Philadelphia having lost on of the major US banks at the time.

Also after the Civil War America realized that it needed to be able to float its on bonds in order to support future wars. Instead of creating another Bank of the United States in Philadelphia they decided to issues the bonds through the Bank of New York effectively killing any chance Philadelphia had left at competing on a somewhat close playing field with NY. By the late 1890s Philadelphia had lost most of its banking core and while the larger economy was still performing strongly most firms were not public companies and it hurt the regional economy. To put into perspective how much the moving of Philadelphia wealth to NY hurt the city in 1860 when Philadelphia was still a striving financial center the city had a population of 565,529 and NYC had a population of 1,174,779. This was around the same time the Philadelphia banking money moved to NYC and their population continued its rapid growth while the population growth became much slower in Philly. By 1890 Philly was at 1,046,964 and NYC had ballooned to 2,507,414.

Granted the Erie Canal also played a crucial role in this as evidenced in Chicago's growth rate at the time from 112,172 in 1860 to 1,099,850 in 1890 but the important thing about the Erie Canal was that it was funded from the NYSE. By 1890 the PHLX had lost so much capital that is was unable to underwrite the massive public works projects and innovative ideas of the NYSE so Philly and NYC began to diverge in growth patterns.

At least that is how I understand some of the forces that were at play at the time. I also skipped a bunch of factors as I am not the most qualified on the subject. Obviously other factors greatly contributed to the divergence like NYC being a much shorter boat ride for immigrants along with the fact that the route between NYC and Chicago was apparently much easier to put in a canal then Chicago to Philly. I guess my point is that some things were against the city but from the small amount of books I have read the city also missed out a many opportunities well before 1900 in which it could have been in a much better position to handle 1930 onward.

[DIESELPOLO]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Received an email from Temple on the pricing of the rooms in the new 27 floor Morgan Hall:

One bedroom- $1,875 a month
Two bedroom - $1,741 a month per person
Four person apartment (shared bedroom)- $1,641 a month per person
Five person (personal bedroom)- $1,708 a month per person
Five person (shared bedroom)- $1,641 a month per person

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were quoting prices for rentals in San Francisco.

[McBane]

While CC is in WAAY better shape today than it was in 1960, one could argue that the city as a whole was in better shape then, than now.

• The population was larger in 1960
• Neighborhoods were more stable and so was the tax base
• CC still had the majority of jobs
• Market East, and the city as a whole, were still the regional retail center

Sure, CC has an awesome restaurant and arts scene and neighborhoods in the periphery (i.e. No Libs, Manayunk, Fairmount, etc.) are stronger today, but that doesn't negate the destruction of entire city neighborhoods and the slow, steady decline of the once stable, solidly middle class Northeast (diversity is great and all, but it doesn't pay the bills).

[palvar]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

I had the Barnes & Noble in Marlton order it for me. It is a rather expensive book ($45) but I thought it was well worth it.

The Free Library has two copies.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Jelly Roll

The closing of the Second Bank of the United States was really the event that allowed NYC to surpass Philadelphia to such a great extent that it did. The bank closed in 1836 which eliminated Philadelphia as the primary bond market for what would today be US Treasury bonds. That event coupled with the death of Stephen Girad in 1831 took a lot of capital out of the Philadelphia finance market. At the time the US was the top financial market in the US with the largest banks located in Philly. As of the 1840 census Philly had a population of 93,665 compared to New York Cities 391,114. Obviously New York was much bigger by this time yet Philadelphia still ran the countries financial markets to a large degree.

Interesting JellyRoll - good summary. Just one question: are we mistaking the hyper-acceleration of the NYC economy for the deceleration of the Philadelphia economy? I am, yea NYC flew past Philly in the years you speak of, but from what I understand Philly's economy was still healthy until the post-WWII era. Your summary seems to explain why NYC - and not Philly - benefited from as the financial hub which caused exponential growth. I guess my question is was Philly ever destined to experience such growth as NYC did?

[PhiLaw]

These pictures are about a week old, but I took them from this angle because it provides an interesting perspective of how it will blend with the skyline. From this view I'm not as disappointed with the height of the building.

[PhiLaw]

Some perspective on the difference in height between the new Jefferson building and the St. James. Ps. do not try this at home - about a 20% accident rate.

[Jelly Roll]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Interesting JellyRoll - good summary. Just one question: are we mistaking the hyper-acceleration of the NYC economy for the deceleration of the Philadelphia economy? I am, yea NYC flew past Philly in the years you speak of, but from what I understand Philly's economy was still healthy until the post-WWII era. Your summary seems to explain why NYC - and not Philly - benefited from as the financial hub which caused exponential growth. I guess my question is was Philly ever destined to experience such growth as NYC did?

I think it could have kept more of it's global presence. The feeling that I get from everything that I have read is that from 1900-1950 people in Philadelphia seemed to be very content with what they had and did not capitalize on opportunities to fight back against NYC to remain a city with global influence. Perhaps you are right that NYC was always going to attract away any large companies that were founded here and most other places for that matter. It is a problem that the city still has today.

[relnahe]

Some of these recent posts are so ridiculous. First off virtually every US city suffered decline soon after WW2. Don't act like this is something unique. Second, Philadelphia population is only 25% lower than its peak in the 1950's. Most older cities are between 30-60% loss so stop giving me this woe is me bull.

Originally Posted by McBane

While CC is in WAAY better shape today than it was in 1960, one could argue that the city as a whole was in better shape then, than now.

• The population was larger in 1960
• Neighborhoods were more stable and so was the tax base
• CC still had the majority of jobs
• Market East, and the city as a whole, were still the regional retail center

Sure, CC has an awesome restaurant and arts scene and neighborhoods in the periphery (i.e. No Libs, Manayunk, Fairmount, etc.) are stronger today, but that doesn't negate the destruction of entire city neighborhoods and the slow, steady decline of the once stable, solidly middle class Northeast (diversity is great and all, but it doesn't pay the bills).

Okay Mr. Negative can you tell me why this city generates more money from the wage tax then it has in decades even though its at its lowest in nearly 40 years? Or did you just want to make a vaguely covered bigoted comment?