The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[connect2source]

Great point djh, when I was on the South Granville BIA Board, it was a little of both, we got some help from the city for street furniture but it was the landlords that had a collective vision to attract the top names in home-furnishings-design.. and to invest great sums in improvements and along came Pottery Barn, Anthropologie and the like and now it's well established and has a strong focus. I think people have little reason the visit Robson with basically the same offerings as most malls. The Pacific Palisades, CB2 was a good start but we need much more.. and quickly. Perhaps also a re-invention of itself and not continuing to simply duplicate chain stores with alternate locations.

[djh]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Great point djh, when I was on the South Granville BIA Board, it was a little of both, we got some help from the city for street furniture but it was the landlords that had a collective vision to attract the top names in home-furnishings-design.. and to invest great sums in improvements and along came Pottery Barn, Anthropologie and the like and now it's well established and has a strong focus. I think people have little reason the visit Robson with basically the same offerings as most malls. The Pacific Palisades, CB2 was a good start but we need much more.. and quickly. Perhaps also a re-invention of itself and not continuing to simply duplicate chain stores with alternate locations.

I worked with both the Robson St BIA and the South Granvile BIA. I couldn't believe the size of the Robson St. budget, esp. for marketing, yet I felt they were not as effective as the SGBIA at the time when they put in the lovely furniture and dressed the street with flower baskets. Yes, I saw how it attracted great and relatively interesting retailers at the time. If the had then gone to the city and said "Look, we've done our bit, what else can you do to help?" I would say that was justified.
But for Robson Street, esp. with their huge marketing budget, perhaps the answer is to push out some bland retailers that you see in the mall a few blocks away, and encourage unique uses? A plaza or stall-based market on that unused green field? (I heard a rumour the owner is a rich offshore businessman waiting for the market rates to improve substantially, so I doubt they'd complain if the city allowed say a farmer's market or food trucks or buskers). Once the street has actually done something substantive that actually brings traffic in & of itself, then I feel they are justified if the BIA pushes for the street to be pedestrianised/non-HOV removed, or for an encouragement of patio culture by giving incentives to patio restaurants or widening the pavement?
Just some ideas.

[Retail-Insider]

Hey everyone,

Based on comments above, We've been asked to provide ideas how to improve Robson Street. Please either post your ideas on this forum or email us at [email protected].

I think we'd all like to see Robson Street improve for the better. Thanks for your feedback, Forum Members!

[officedweller]

Robson was improved some time ago. I think within the past 10 years. There's only so much you can do with narrow sidewalks having high pedestrian flow.

As for the creation of anchor complex, I think that height restrictions on Robson may prevent that. I can also see it being questionnable (from a developer's perspective) whether large scale retail would survive that far from Granville & Georgia. Even in Robson St.'s heyday, Bute St. was a long way from Burrard because of the long city blocks.

Ultimately, I think that the small scale development has worked against the area. The current marketplace centres around well-known "prominent" retailers, rather than unique mom and pop boutiques. The Forever XXI project and the large scale space it provides seems to be indicative of current market trends. If I recall correctly, there are a number of single storey building between the Forever XXI project and the Manhattan Building that could be redeveloped to provide bigger retail space. The CentrePoint project across the street provides good sized retail spaces but some drawing card retailers like H&M and UniQlo require large spaces that are not available on Robson Street.

Having the one storey Roots and the former White Spot building near Burrard do not provide an "exciting" entrance to the strip. The "biggest" thing that could happen to revitalize Robson St. would be the redevelopment of the two western sites at Robson & Burrard with larger scaled retail spaces (but not condo towers).

[jlousa]

Robson st is the perfect location for what's called the dumbbell effect. It's too long of a stretch for people to walk it end to end w/o justification, hence you need a major anchor on each end, then people will walk along the bar. Having Nordstrom on one end certainly compromises as an anchor, the western end however doesn't have anything. It doesn't even need to be a large store, just something that draws people. What that can be I'll leave up to the retail experts to decide.
The other thing I think would help is to elimante the turn restrictions in the evenings/weekends to get onto Robson. With the street hurting we should lift the restrictions until things improve again. There are also a handful of stores that still jot out farther then the rest creating a sidewalk bottleneck, have the city either buy out the few remaining buildings to fix the problem, or perhaps as a temp solution at all those locations eliminate parkings and temporarily extend the sidewalk into that space.
Rates are dropping so hopefully some retailers will return, hopefully Landlords cooperate by offering more favourable long term leases with considerable build out allowances.

[ckkelley]

Bring back the clamshell!

[memememe76]

I know it's declasse and all but a huge Old Navy (something like in San Fran) on Robson and Bute would be a real draw. Or an urban Walmart or Target.

I don't have a problem with Robson remaining a mall but outdoors. Vancouver proper doesn't have one. And even with the small sidewalks, I find Robson a lot more pleasant walk than Alberni.

ETA: No, I don't want a roof over Robson Street!

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Retail-Insider

Hey everyone,

Based on comments above, We've been asked to provide ideas how to improve Robson Street. Please either post your ideas on this forum or email us at [email protected].

I think we'd all like to see Robson Street improve for the better. Thanks for your feedback, Forum Members!

Step 1. Cover in glass





Step 2. Pedestrianize

[officedweller]

Old Navy is going in at Granville & Robson.

-

Unless you want to choke on fumes, I think step one would be pedestrianize.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Unless you want to choke on fumes, I think step one would be pedestrianize.

lol, true. These two steps would be concurrent. Or you could still run electric trolley buses down the street, but with much wider sidewalks.

[dreambrother808]

Victoria's Secret wraps are up on the old HMV space. This will help to draw people past that currently dead area at least. Forever 21 was a good move in that direction as well. The old CTV entrance is just pink polka dots. I wonder if this will be a Pink/VS.

Nothing currently happening in the two-level northwest corner space rumoured to become an Apple Store. The building will be so VS-dominated, I find it odd that Apple would want such a small slice of that but who knows.

[CBeats]

Pedestrianizing may happen. First, the art gallery block has to be officially pedestrianized (which is going through the system at City Hall, if I am correct). Then we'll go from there. Any thoughts on which direction would be pedestrianized first? East or West one block?

[officedweller]

Hmm - condition of the DPB for the Sears redevelopment:

1.3.3 arrangements to the satisfaction of the Director of Planning, the General
Manager of Engineering Services and the Director of Legal Services for the
removal of the parking entry access and drive aisle entering the site from
Robson Street, including the construction of new public realm treatment;

Note to Applicant: The closure of the ramp is required prior to Occupancy.

++++

Robson Street Entry Closure

Robson Street is one of the City’s busiest pedestrian corridors. One of three Pacific Centre parkade
vehicle entrances is provided off Robson Street in close proximity to the northeast corner of the Robson
and Howe Street intersection, a location where large volumes of pedestrians tend to accumulate.
Redevelopment of the Sears building and the proposal to convert four floors to General Office provides
an opportunity to reconfigure the public realm to improve the pedestrian experience, reflecting
current City policy.

On November 28, 2012, Council approved the re-opening of the 800 block of Robson Street to vehicle
traffic. Council also directed staff to report back on the impacts, challenges and opportunities for
potentially creating a permanent public square in the future. Similarly, the Transportation 2040 Plan
identifies Robson Square as a potential location for a permanent public square and that the adjacent
blocks of Robson Street, from Jervis Street to Seymour Street, are identified as pedestrian-priority
streets that consider transformation to a car-free or shared space design.

A traffic study was completed by the applicant to assess the demand for the Robson Street entry and
any potential impacts if it were to close. It concluded that the Robson Street entry accommodated less
than 18% of the total vehicles accessing the parkade while the other two entries off Howe Street took
the bulk of the volumes. Steady flows of pedestrians were also observed at this location which created
conflicts resulting in vehicle queues on Robson Street. The study also identified some potential
circulation challenges if drivers were unaware of the closure.

Staff have concluded that the benefits of improving the pedestrian realm on Robson St are significant
and are worth the expected impacts of the access closure. Design Condition 1.3.3 requires the closure
of the Robson Street Entry and reconstruction of the public realm to the satisfaction of the General
Manager of Engineering Services.

http://vancouver.ca/files/cov/committees/DE-416152-725-granville.pdf

[Built Form]

Originally Posted by LotusLand

Wait the Nike Store on Robson closed? When?

The store closed on Jan 12th.
I had mentioned the store was closing on Aug 18th of last year. Nespresso was looking there and the former Payless Shoes at Robson and Bute. They rejected both and have put off their flagship Vancouver store till next year.

[connect2source]

I vaguely remember seeing a photo in the Sun regarding covering / enclosing the 1000 and 1100 blocks of Robson in the very early 80's. I think covering any portion of Robson would have been a huge mistake, we already had much of downtown retail indoors and I feel much of Robson's success in the 80's and 90's was that it was, in fact, outdoors and people found that a major draw as we really didn't have any outdoor alternative during that time.

As far improvements-to-draw-shoppers is concerned, I think regardless of what is done, the organic migration of retail to the east, is firmly in place with the resurgence of Granville, the new Holts, the renovated Bay with Topshop, the largest H&M in Canada directly on Granville St., Urban Outfitters and the like and the soon-to-be Nordstrom. I think the only thing aside from improved sidewalk appearance and some innovative lighting and street furniture, would be a major redevelopment(s) on the 1100 block to suit the needs of today's retailers, both in size/scope and design.

The 1100 block is simply not 'current' with the most glaring examples being :

-the former Robson Fashion Park, 80's stucco design with cheap 2nd floor glazing and rather small CRU's save for the GAP, the place needs a gut much like the Robson Galleria ( Forever 21 ) re-do, the sidewalk directly in front is deplorable, although wide, it's in horrendous condition, embarrassing for our major high street

-the London Drugs complex, again, dated architecture, tiny CRU's and terrible '80's awning based back-it florescent, sign system

-the Robson Landmark ( Red Robin ) although newer, tiny CRU's

-the American Eagle, Moxie's building, 80's stucco design ( I know it had a facelift in 1999 with XXXY ), tiny CRU's, the Bute facade is horrible, looks like an 80's leaky condo

With these redevelopments we need vision and a focus for a type of retail not found in PC or along Granville.

I predict a further decline of the 1100 block before landlords and the city are perhaps jolted and motivated.

I predict we'll see RW&Co, Guess, Marciano, French Connection and perhaps American Eagle leave and leases expire.

Perhaps we need to embrace the organic migration east, enjoy all the new fab retail we're getting and divorce ourselves from our attachment to Robson. Sadly, Robson lacks any sustainable soul or history, that was all obliterated in the 80's when Robsonstrasse gave way to the high-street concept we have today. I think today we're looking for more than chain-oriented retail shop fronts in our high-streets which perhaps is why great, independent innovative retail, coupled with great design is showing up elsewhere, like Gastown. We're a more sophisticated city than we were in the 80's, a great street experience must now incorporate much more than it did back then, which is a huge positive.

[officedweller]

This may be a bit of a dumb question, but are the Gastown stores successful?

[jlousa]

Seems like they are considering how all the small spots get gobbled up if one gets empty it's the large spaces that no one seems to want to touch. They obviously work on margins and not volume, not sure who is buying t-shirts for over a hundred and dress shirts for up to $1500 but someone is.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by officedweller

This may be a bit of a dumb question, but are the Gastown stores successful?

Don't know how successful they are individually but overall Gastown has made incredible leaps forward and is now what some consider the epicentre of innovation in retail and restaurants.

Seems there's some sticking power to many of the shops and restaurants of late and that ratio will likely continue on the up as more cutting edge residential continues to emerge and as people continue to feel it's more connected to the rest of the established areas of downtown.

[wrenegade]

I don't think any of the retailers west of Bute who are also in Pacific Centre should waste their time on Robson. Aritzia is probably an exception (they seem to be busy enough at both locations). Though I am actually not that big a fan of Nike they do a fantastic job on their Niketown flagship stores, something I think would be a draw on a prominent corner.
I also agree though, that the centre of the shopping district is definitely moving towards Granville. The new Old Navy at Granville & Robson will definitely continue this as will new retail space in the Telus Garden project.

As for suggestions as to how to improve Robson Street? There are a lot of things that need to happen. First of all is better tenants. I'm sure many people pass on Robson because much of what is there is available in Pacific Centre. Better tenants surely pass on locating on Robson because many of the buildings there are absolute garbage, especially considering the rent. The rent has likely peaked on Robson as well, unless it's a new building, because property taxes are so high. It unlikely that will change any time soon (unless redevelopment happens with office or residential above splitting the tax burden a bit). The streetscape is also a bit of a mess (as mentioned before). The sidewalks, even at their widest points, are too narrow and absolutely terrible in places where old buildings force everyone together (Cafe Crepe, Starbucks at Thurlow). Newer purpose built buildings like the Forever 21 space are the only way to attract better tenants and the only way to improve Robson in my opinion, and it has to start at Burrard. I commend CB2 for locating where they are but I doubt many others will take the risk of going so far west without big incentives.

One thing I would love to see (but is extremely unlikely to happen in this city) is for the liquor license restrictions being loosened a bit and allow for new restaurants and especially patio spaces open up on Robson. I know that the new Forever 21 space was built to allow for adding 2 floors of residential at a later date, but what if that was a big restaurant will a south facing patio up there instead? The block between Burrard and Thurlow backs onto the CBD and I would argue that they should be allowed to keep the patio open until 1am (obviously never going to happen). It would be a tough sell in the winter time but I think restauranteurs (especially the Earls and Cactus Clubs of the world) would jump at the opportunity to have brand new space right on Robson with big patios, even if they are mostly off the street itself.

[Klazu]

I went out for lunch today and I visited Sinclair Center's food court for the very first time. What on Earth has happened there? There seems to be place for ten (or so) restaurants, but only three remain in business, while others stood vacant.

Such a sad sight and it wasn't even that quiet in there! I guess Harbour Center and Waterfront Center have both eaten this place alive...