PHILADELPHIA | The Development Thread VIII

[Larry King]

8th and market is the perfect spot

Eat up all the tourist $$$

[duffey]

Originally Posted by Larry King

8th and market is the perfect spot

Eat up all the tourist $$$

...and all the lower/middle class philadelphians' $$$ too. Casinos are the cancer of cities.

"Goldenberg sees the proximity to Independence National Historical Park to the east and the Pennsylvania Convention Center to the west as building blocks for 'a really electric corridor.' He wants that development to pave the path to Penn's Landing."

yes, because the families of tourists and school buses of children are going to stop in and put $50 on red on their way down to the tour of Independence Hall.

I'm going to have to strongly agree with McBane. This would be the nail in the coffin for Market East. Is Ken Goldenberg that stupid or does he just think everyone else is?

[Insoluble]

This is one of those rare situations where I'm hoping the NIMBY's win out and kill this thing. This development would absolutely kill any chance of Market East recovering any time soon.

[Cro Burnham]

I wouldn't put money on it, but I'll bet that the next casino gets approved for the site next to PhillyLive. Which is where it should go: we already have down there a large captive audience of suburban low lives to shake down further for loose cash and tax receipts. We have all the parking, all the highway access down there. And the airport. Perfect for bringing outside dirty money into the city and we won't even have to see the sorry-ass people losing it. Gambling, slot betting in particular, is a fundamentally anti-urban activity that sucks decent street life out of anything around it. I pray for the stadium site. Gambling would be perfect there.

[alasi]

I hope good sense prevails and puts the slots anywhere except the Disney Hole. I 'd always hoped the defunct Waldrf could be resurrected at that sight.

[acenturi]

My impression is that the Wynn plan on the waterfront is the most likely to actually materialize as proposed - based on their history and long, successful experience in the industry. Even though I'm not a casino fan, I'd speculate that the Hotel and accompanying Resort (can we use that term for a business on the Delaware River ??) will do more for the city than any of the other proposals. Also, if the Wynn thing happens, I'd bet it will lead to significant additional development in that area. 8th and Market would be a disaster for the city and a blight on one our most significant assets - INHP. Whoever the State/City pick, let's hope they have the foresight to require a Bond in the estimated FULL amount of the Proposal - not just for a single Phase. Bet you'd see a quick reduction in bidders if that was the case.

[duffey]

i really like Cro Burnham's point. while i hate the idea of even having casinos in our city, there really is no better place than the far off sports complex. that said i stand by the belief that any casino is bad for its host city, no matter where it exists.

it would be very ironic to put a giant gambling hall directly across the street from the headquarters of CBH (Community Behavioral Health) and DBHIdS (Dept of Beh. Health).

i guess patients would have a short walk to get connected to a gambling addiction treatment provider.

[Jelly Roll]

Drexel to add labs at Three Parkway

Drexel University has leased 186,000 square feet at Three Parkway (1601 Cherry, the ruddy ExcelleRx and ex-Reliance Insurance/Pennwalt high-rise headquarters) for its Nursing and Medicine schools.

As part of the move, academic and admin offices of Drexel's College of Nursing and Health Professions will move from the Bellet building, 1501 Race St., into five stories of the 20-story Three Parkway tower. The medical school will take over the Bellet space.


The new Three Parkway will include offices and two floors of classroom, clinical and research space for physical therapy programs, including an exercize room and art and music therapy rooms; and a Pediatrics & Musculoskeletal Research Center lab, says Drexel's Niki Gianakaris.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-phillydeals/Drexel-Med-rents-Three-Parkway.html

[summersm343]

Casino at 8th and Market? BADDDDDDD IDEAAAAAA.

I like the Wynn Proposal the most. It's a high end casino that will attract high end clients and Wynn has current experience. The spot right next to Sugarhouse is perfect.. will make Sugarhouse get a move on on those other phases. Will most likely create several other developments in the area which looks like it is starting to become a large entertainment district with all that is planned in the area. Hope Wynn gets the permit.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

I wouldn't put money on it, but I'll bet that the next casino gets approved for the site next to PhillyLive. Which is where it should go: we already have down there a large captive audience of suburban low lives to shake down further for loose cash and tax receipts. We have all the parking, all the highway access down there. And the airport. Perfect for bringing outside dirty money into the city and we won't even have to see the sorry-ass people losing it. Gambling, slot betting in particular, is a fundamentally anti-urban activity that sucks decent street life out of anything around it. I pray for the stadium site. Gambling would be perfect there.

Not everyone who frequents casinos are "sorry ass people", though, and you may want to be a little careful with metaphorically biting the hand that may feed you. I have to mention now that it's funny to me when city residents dislike suburbanites and tourists and have such nasty things to say about so many of them, yet have absolutely no problem taking their money...by any means necessary...

Does the city or the area as a whole need another casino, though, is the most important question? With casinos being this close to each other we are going to start reaching saturation and they are going to start competing amongst themselves, and then you are going to start to see some really serious problems for the areas around them. If we must get another casino, Market St. would be an awful idea and the area around the sports complex would be a better one. But again, this is just a lesser of the evils situation at this point in my opinion.

******************

Effort to save Spring Garden St. church is dealt setback

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/..._Garden_St__church_is_dealt_setback.html

[rricci]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Not everyone who frequents casinos are "sorry ass people", though, and you may want to be a little careful with metaphorically biting the hand that may feed you. I have to mention now that it's funny to me when city residents dislike suburbanites and tourists and have such nasty things to say about so many of them, yet have absolutely no problem taking their money...by any means necessary...

I have to take a second to back up EastSide here. I always make it a point to go out of my way to be accommodating to out-of-towners (don't honk at their driving mistakes, offer them good directions, etc) because they have the potential to butter our bread. Also, I'm a city resident but I have plenty of relatives from the burbs that have only recently started coming "downtown" because I promote it (and ensure their safety). We should all be ambassadors. It adds to our streetlife AND fills our coffers.

On another note, could someone knowledgeable compile a list of ALL projects currently underway, large and small. There are so many of them that it's hard to keep track. Not only the main ones like 2101 Chestnut, but the frosting-on-cake variety like Paine's Skate Park. For starters: Family Court Building, 12th & Arch Parking Garage, Granary, LeBow College of Business, and so on.

Thanks in advance.

[PhiLaw]

1. I also treat the suburbanites with the upmost respect. People need to understand that knowledge valuates, and when people live in the suburbs for long enough, their behavior and thinking tends to adapt accordingly. Same idea can be applied to city dwellers. Many suburbanites pay a city wage tax for being employed here in Philly, fill our theatre halls on the weekends, crowd art museum galleries, liven up restaurants, and fill our sidewalk to give it the soon-to-be manhattanesque bloat they're destined to be. Not to mention that these suburbanites may be city dwellers in the coming years!

2. I am also for the Casino next to SugarHouse plan. Like car dealerships and gas stations (airport autopark), many times building market competitors adjacent to each other provides the critical mass needed to attract more visitors, in addition to which quality of product is always better, for it is really easy for someone who doesn't like the casino to take their business next door.

This also keeps the casino away from Penn's grid. With Sugarhouse, Show and Tell, Delilah's and Risque, it seems a great fit. I'd rather have a red-light district along an industrial highway corridor than on 23rd and market.

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by rricci

On another note, could someone knowledgeable compile a list of ALL projects currently underway, large and small. There are so many of them that it's hard to keep track. Not only the main ones like 2101 Chestnut, but the frosting-on-cake variety like Paine's Skate Park. For starters: Family Court Building, 12th & Arch Parking Garage, Granary, LeBow College of Business, and so on.

Thanks in advance.

http://thephillyskinny.blogspot.com/p/the-skinny.html

133 projects at this time

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Aaamazarite

http://thephillyskinny.blogspot.com/p/the-skinny.html

133 projects at this time

Note. This does not have all projects though, obviously. All of the rowhome construction is difficult to keep track of. This is just the larger projects going on.

[summersm343]

Mock up of the CHOP Schuylkill Towers?

http://nakedphilly.com/graduate-hospital/whats-going-on-next-to-the-south-street-bridge/

[TheBigGeo08]

Right now Philly has the best projects in the country and I'm certain Center City will surpass downtown Chicago come next census.

[Johnland]

Regarding casinos, has the first one turned out to be as successful as hoped? Is it providing the revenue anticipated?

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

Not everyone who frequents casinos are "sorry ass people", though, and you may want to be a little careful with metaphorically biting the hand that may feed you. I have to mention now that it's funny to me when city residents dislike suburbanites and tourists and have such nasty things to say about so many of them, yet have absolutely no problem taking their money...by any means necessary

i hear you. note, i said "suburban low lives". that a person is a suburban low life does not imply all suburbanites are low lives. obviously. but the type who go to casinos, in general, are.

in general, the folks - suburban or otherwise - who go to casinos are more like the folks who go to wing bowl, phillylive, wwf and ufc events, titty bars, turf club etc. typically, these are not the same people going to the barnes, the orchestra, morimoto, kimmel center, dibrunos, or even reading terminal mkt.

the point of casinos is to exploit dumb people and take their money. from the city's perspective, it is to get money from more dumb outsiders than dumb insiders. the city wants dumb outsider money. fine. i just don't want to see those dumb outsiders blighting the nicer, or potentially nicer, parts of the city. the stadium area is not one of those areas. it would be perfect for wisking in and out and shaking down dumb outsiders with minimal negative impact on us who actually value decent urban life.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

the point of casinos is to exploit dumb people and take their money. from the city's perspective, it is to get money from more dumb outsiders than dumb insiders. the city wants dumb outsider money. fine. i just don't want to see those dumb outsiders blighting the nicer, or potentially nicer, parts of the city. the stadium area is not one of those areas. it would be perfect for wisking in and out and shaking down dumb outsiders with minimal negative impact on us who actually value decent urban life.

Crow, how do you reconcile this statement with your previously professed political and ideological beliefs? Also, of course most people will lose their money at a casino. Let's even assume EVERYONE loses their money. Isn't the bulk of our economy founded upon people knowingly and voluntarily giving their money to someone else for a product that they want? Just because this product isn't always tangible, doesn't mean it is not there (e.g, entertainment, psychological need to gamble, drinks, atmosphere, etc). Not all gamblers are dumb low-lifes. Are football and baseball fans dumb low-lifes: indeed they are certain to lose their money and spend more attending a game with no tangible reward.

If there is demand for it, keep the second casino project, and put it next to SugarHouse.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Crow, how do you reconcile this statement with your previously professed political and ideological beliefs? Also, of course most people will lose their money at a casino. Let's even assume EVERYONE loses their money. Isn't the bulk of our economy founded upon people knowingly and voluntarily giving their money to someone else for a product that they want? Just because this product isn't always tangible, doesn't mean it is not there (e.g, entertainment, psychological need to gamble, drinks, atmosphere, etc). Not all gamblers are dumb low-lifes. Are football and baseball fans dumb low-lifes: indeed they are certain to lose their money and spend more attending a game with no tangible reward.

true, people are free to be dopes and waste their earnings on completely idiotic activities like slots to make aholes like sheldon adelson even richer. i wish there were no casinos anywhere near philly, but the powers that be make these calls. if they have to be there, put them some place where we don't have to see them.

it's funny, though, gambling is sanctioned, but not drugs and prostution. of the three, i suspect that gambling is almost as bad or worse for people as many drugs, and more harmful than prostitution. all of them are industries that are heavily patronized by losers and run by sleazeballs and destructive to urban life. so stickem in a hidden corner that we can easily ignore .