The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[cormiermax]

I know my relatives living in Dieppe where very proud when Dieppe became a city. I never asked why, but I assume it was because it would stop amalgamation.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

I know my relatives living in Dieppe where very proud when Dieppe became a city. I never asked why, but I assume it was because it would stop amalgamation.

Indeed, that was pretty much the principle reason why Dieppe petitioned for city status. They are very proud of being the "largest Acadian city in the world". The motto of the city is "l'etoile d'Acadie". The pride of the Acadians in their city is absolute and unquestionable.

There would have to be a civil war before Dieppe would ever amalgamate with Moncton. No provincial government will touch this issue with a 10 foot pole.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bobcage

Dieppe/Moncton could work -- Moncton/Riverview would work... but Moncton/Dieppe/Riverview ? eventually amalgamations this is what should happened but when is anybody's guess!

it's too small town politics yet to see above the horizon......


example: Ottawa,Nepean,Gloucester,Orleans,Kanata - not too long ago these were all separate cities --- now it's (amalgamated as city of OTTAWA)

Ottawa is very similar demography to Moncton area - about 65%-70% english and 30-40% French.......


Riverview mostly all English (Kanata all english) Dieppe mostly french (Orleans all french) and everything in between is mix.

Less politics and bureaucratic hurdles in Moncton than Ottawa so Moncton should be able to amalgamate.

google Orlean,Ottawa,Kanata -- it's similar to Moncton (Dieppe,Moncton,Riverview) but just on a larger scale.

The dynamics are not totally dissimilar but you have to include Gatineau (a separate city in another province) with Ottawa in order to make "Ottawa" 35-40% francophone.

The City of Ottawa itself as a municipality (now merged to include Orleans, Vanier, etc.) is only maybe 15% francophone - perhaps 17-18% if you really push. This is about half of the francophone proportion of the City of Moncton, or of Greater Moncton (Moncton+Dieppe and the others like Riverview, etc.)

When Ottawa was merged around the year 2000 there were no municipalities that were as francophone as Dieppe is (75%). Vanier was 50-50 and has declined even more since then and the francophone share of Orleans was only around 25-30%. (Plus Orleans was not even its own municipality anyway and was split between Gloucester and Cumberland.

Go back 30 years ago or so and there were quite a few parts of the present-day City of Ottawa (much of the eastern portion in fact) that had substantial francophone majorities.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Indeed, that was pretty much the principle reason why Dieppe petitioned for city status. They are very proud of being the "largest Acadian city in the world". The motto of the city is "l'etoile d'Acadie". The pride of the Acadians in their city is absolute and unquestionable.

There would have to be a civil war before Dieppe would ever amalgamate with Moncton. No provincial government will touch this issue with a 10 foot pole.

A lot of Franco-Ontarians in the east end Ottawa suburb of Orleans (at least those who pay attention to these issues) were quite envious of the city status of Dieppe and saw it as an important tool in keeping the French language and culture vibrant there.

Orleans was always and still is a distinct community but never really had municipal status of any kind. For much of its history it was split down the middle between Gloucester and Cumberland, both largely anglophone townships for which Orleans was the "French corner" of each.

Eventually Orleans underwent a few decades of hyper-development without much regard for the historical francophone character of the place. And around 2000 Gloucester and Cumberland were merged into the new megacity of Ottawa.

As I said before, Orleans today is roughly a quarter francophone, although walking around there it seems more like about 15% of the population that uses French in their everyday lives. It's far, far less francophone than Dieppe is. Linguistically, Dieppe feels like Orleans in the 1970s.

[SignalHillHiker]

That's so sad... And Orleans is such a beautiful, French name for a city - like Dieppe.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

That's so sad... And Orleans is such a beautiful, French name for a city - like Dieppe.

You should have seen the fight in the 1990s when there was a debate over restoring the accent aigu over the "E" to make the official spelling Orléans.

The accented version finally won out, and this is the official spelling now, used on road signs, public buildings and also most English-language print media. But you seen the unaccented spelling a lot too (businesses, etc.), probably more than the official one.

(Raps his own knuckles) I should probably use the accented version at all times myself (even in English), given that I spent much of my life there.

[JHikka]

Thanks for the insight Acajack.

I was going to mention something about Dieppe being more similar to Gatineau merging with Ottawa than Orleans, but you beat me to it.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Thanks for the insight Acajack.

I was going to mention something about Dieppe being more similar to Gatineau merging with Ottawa than Orleans, but you beat me to it.

Cheers.

If I can link this to the topic, people in Greater Moncton and Dieppe can do whatever they want but if I was asked my advice to the people in Dieppe would probably be to hold on to their distinct municipality. Apologies to the pro-merger crowd.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

people in Greater Moncton and Dieppe can do whatever they want but if I was asked my advice to the people in Dieppe would probably be to hold on to their distinct municipality. Apologies to the pro-merger crowd.

Although my inclination would be for full metropolitan amalgamation (mostly to combat the misapprehension by some people to think of Moncton as a city of 69,000 rather than as a vibrant urban community of 140,000), I really have no strong feelings on the matter and am cool with the current arrangement.

At present the anglophones have a safe haven in Riverview and the francophones have a similar safe haven in Dieppe. Moncton, as the principle community in the region caters to both linguistic groups (but with an anglophone slant given the 2/3 English speaking majority).

As long as Riverview and Dieppe pitch in on regional commissions (transit, policing, water, sewerage etc) and contribute their fair share to projects like the Capitol Theatre and the Events Centre then it really matters little. Moncton is a CMA now, and most corporations looking to invest in the community will check out the CMA stats rather than the stats for an individual municipality.

[mylesmalley]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

That's so sad... And Orleans is such a beautiful, French name for a city - like Dieppe.

I was once talking to a woman at a call centre in the southern US. When I spelled out my office's address she said, "What kind of name is DIE-PEEE"...pronounced in a way only a Sourtherner can.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I was once talking to a woman at a call centre in the southern US. When I spelled out my office's address she said, "What kind of name is DIE-PEEE"...pronounced in a way only a Sourtherner can.

Some Acadians when speaking quickly and in slangy French will pronounce Dieppe as ''Djepp''.

[JHikka]

The one placename I always have trouble with is Cocagne. I guess it's pronounced like Co-cahn, with less emphasis on the ending syllable..?

[mylesmalley]

I've always enjoyed that about New Brunswick. There are towns here that I genuinely thought were two places because of the different ways anglophones and francophones pronounce them.

(Dieppe) DEE-epp vs Djepp
(Shediac) Shed-ee-ac vs Shed-yahck
(St Antoine) Saint Anthony vs Saint Antoine
(Haut Aboujagan) Upper A-boo-jog-en vs Ah-boojagan
(Fredericton) Freddington, Freddicton
(Cocagne) Co-cahn
(Moncton) Monc-tunn

[josh_cat_eyes]

Originally Posted by mylesmalley

I've always enjoyed that about New Brunswick. There are towns here that I genuinely thought were two places because of the different ways anglophones and francophones pronounce them.

(Dieppe) DEE-epp vs Djepp
(Shediac) Shed-ee-ac vs Shed-yahck
(St Antoine) Saint Anthony vs Saint Antoine
(Haut Aboujagan) Upper A-boo-jog-en vs Ah-boojagan
(Fredericton) Freddington, Freddicton
(Cocagne) Co-cahn
(Moncton) Monc-tunn

(Cap-Pelé) Cap-Pelay

[MonctonRad]

Building permits up in Moncton
Tuesday, January 15, 2013
Times & Transcript
By: Brent Mazerolle

But value of permits issued in 2012 is down from previous year

The final numbers for 2012 are in, and Moncton had its third-best construction year of the past decade.

'Overall, 2012 was a very good year for us,' says Sherry Sparks, the City of Moncton's director of building inspection. 'While the total number of permits issued was up from 2011, the dollar value decreased. We did not have the number of big projects in 2012 as we did in 2011.' Spending on residential construction jumped nearly $13 million from 2011 to 2012 with 11 more permits issued than in 2011. However, commercial and industrial spending fell by nearly $36 million, even though 25 more permits were issued than the year before.

Read more:
http://22864.vws.magma.ca/index.php?&article_id=10471

[JasonL-Moncton]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Although my inclination would be for full metropolitan amalgamation (mostly to combat the misapprehension by some people to think of Moncton as a city of 69,000 rather than as a vibrant urban community of 140,000), I really have no strong feelings on the matter and am cool with the current arrangement.

At present the anglophones have a safe haven in Riverview and the francophones have a similar safe haven in Dieppe. Moncton, as the principle community in the region caters to both linguistic groups (but with an anglophone slant given the 2/3 English speaking majority).

As long as Riverview and Dieppe pitch in on regional commissions (transit, policing, water, sewerage etc) and contribute their fair share to projects like the Capitol Theatre and the Events Centre then it really matters little. Moncton is a CMA now, and most corporations looking to invest in the community will check out the CMA stats rather than the stats for an individual municipality.

I'm like you in that regard now...when Dieppe became a city we lost that chance for the joining, and the suggestion of "Codiac City" uugh, that's a terrible name.

I still think it's feasible for Riverview to become part of Moncton, as a suburb of Moncton (which really, no offense to anyone in Riverview, but it really is a burb of Moncton already)...an idea I think that should be seriously considered.

JL

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by JasonL-Moncton

I'm like you in that regard now...when Dieppe became a city we lost that chance for the joining, and the suggestion of "Codiac City" uugh, that's a terrible name.

I still think it's feasible for Riverview to become part of Moncton, as a suburb of Moncton (which really, no offense to anyone in Riverview, but it really is a burb of Moncton already)...an idea I think that should be seriously considered.

JL

And why do you think so? I appreciate elaborated criticisms.

Would you prefer a newly merged city be named 'Moncton'?

Regardless of anyone's opinions in how they believe amalgamations will never happen: keeping municipalities separate requires money. New Brunswick is on its way to needing a federal bail out, which could result in NB being treated like a territory, to an extent.

Merging communities is one of the first steps that are taken when trying to balance budgets. If the provincial government won't combine the communities, the federal government certainly will.

[pierremoncton]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Regardless of anyone's opinions in how they believe amalgamations will never happen: keeping municipalities separate requires money. New Brunswick is on its way to needing a federal bail out, which could result in NB being treated like a territory, to an extent.

Merging communities is one of the first steps that are taken when trying to balance budgets. If the provincial government won't combine the communities, the federal government certainly will.

Sorry for being too lazy right now to take screenshots, but I'll leave this here: http://www.rbc.com/economics/market/pdf/prov_fiscal.pdf

See pages 9-11. Ontario & Québec will "become territories" before any of the Atlantic provinces do.

[pierremoncton]

MonctonRad (I believe) had previously posted on this subject:

Dam and bridge to be removed
Source: http://www.news919.com/2013/01/22/dam-and-bridge-to-be-removed/

MONCTON, NB – The City of Moncton will be removing the Humphrey Brook Dam and the adjacent old Mill Road Bridge later this year.

City engineer Jack MacDonald says the action must be taken under federal legislation to compensate for building a second dam at Turtle Creek.

[...]

The removal project is expected to begin in June and should be completed by September.

Too bad they can't just set money aside for the eventual removal of the causeway instead. I'm also slightly surprised that the bridge isn't being protected for heritage reasons.

[JasonL-Moncton]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

And why do you think so? I appreciate elaborated criticisms.

Would you prefer a newly merged city be named 'Moncton'?

Regardless of anyone's opinions in how they believe amalgamations will never happen: keeping municipalities separate requires money. New Brunswick is on its way to needing a federal bail out, which could result in NB being treated like a territory, to an extent.

Merging communities is one of the first steps that are taken when trying to balance budgets. If the provincial government won't combine the communities, the federal government certainly will.

Sorry RyeJay...yes I actually would prefer an amagamted city to just be called 'Moncton'. Not everything in this area has to have "Codiac" in the moniker (Codiac RCMP, Codiac Transpo...uugh).

For example...Halifax and Dartmouth didn't change their names just became HRM, but are still Halifax and Dartmouth. Moncton is the predominant community of the three, has the largest population base, IMHO it should be name Moncton if amalgamated, with Riverview and Dieppe areas maintaining their identities as suburbs of Moncton as a whole.

I'm all for the amalgamation...just as Moncton.