Calgary Car Talk

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Don't underestimate the value of extra clearance when you're driving in 30-50 cm of fresh, heavy snow. I've pushed more than my share of AWD cars with winter tires out of snowdrifts and deep ruts. Not that this is exactly a common concern in Calgary, mind you.

In Calgary, extra clearance is beneficial for maybe 3 days out the year. Being low to the ground and having better handling is beneficial for the other 362. People always like to look at the extremes when buying cars (kind of like people who always need all those extra bedrooms so they can have a houseguest once every 2 years), but fail to realize the sacrifices they will make almost every other scenario.

A minivan is far more practical - but then you look like a soccer mom, so if your ego is fragile, I guess that option is out.

I would argue that these days you see way more soccer moms in cute-utes and SUVs than you do minivans. I can totally understand the benefit of a minivan, and actually respect the people who get one because it shows they are taking their families interest over some trend. Vans are spacious, versatile, and are also great for hauling cargo. It's honestly the perfect car for anyone who has children.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

In terms of tires, tons of people swear by Urban Xpressions...including myself. I went to get winter tires for my wives Volvo, and the price was half of what the dealership offered (for shittier wheels/tires) and more or less the same as Tirerack, and without the hassle of having to find a place to install them.

If you want el-cheapo tires, a place like Walmart might offer you a better deal at some point, but if you have brand name tires (Michelin, Goodyear, Toyo, General etc) then they can save you quite a bit. Excellent service too.

I second Urban Xpressions aka UrbanX. Used to be a Kal Tire customer and used to rave about their customer service, but had one too many bad experiences in a row to continue using them.

I've had nothing but great service and fantastic prices from UrbanX. They're a bit out of the way for me, but I value service and price over convenience.

[Ferreth]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

In Calgary, extra clearance is beneficial for maybe 3 days out the year. Being low to the ground and having better handling is beneficial for the other 362. People always like to look at the extremes when buying cars (kind of like people who always need all those extra bedrooms so they can have a houseguest once every 2 years), but fail to realize the sacrifices they will make almost every other scenario.



I would argue that these days you see way more soccer moms in cute-utes and SUVs than you do minivans. I can totally understand the benefit of a minivan, and actually respect the people who get one because it shows they are taking their families interest over some trend. Vans are spacious, versatile, and are also great for hauling cargo. It's honestly the perfect car for anyone who has children.

Minivans are the new uber-uncool vehicle to have. It used to be the station wagon. I see more mini-SUV's and crossover vehicles that are evolving to something closer to a station wagon in shape and function. What was uncool is cool again, under a new name.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by Ferreth

Minivans are the new uber-uncool vehicle to have. It used to be the station wagon. I see more mini-SUV's and crossover vehicles that are evolving to something closer to a station wagon in shape and function. What was uncool is cool again, under a new name.

I personally think the vast majority of car buyers are idiots who buy whatever their neighbors do....so yeah, I guess it comes down to chasing what's cool. Too bad that as soon as you buy something because it's cool, you're already behind the curve.

I'm sure wagons/minivans will come around at some point again....but they honestly, never should've left. If most were honest with themselves and looked at what their needs really were, most would be buying them still. But nah, they have to roll in some rolling bathtub on stilts that needs a stupid backup camera to even see out of. I guess they are at least already buying hatchbacks without knowing it. Don't tell em that though, that might not go over well at their next bottle-blonde convention.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

I personally think the vast majority of car buyers are idiots who buy whatever their neighbors do....so yeah, I guess it comes down to chasing what's cool. Too bad that as soon as you buy something because it's cool, you're already behind the curve.

I'm sure wagons/minivans will come around at some point again....but they honestly, never should've left. If most were honest with themselves and looked at what their needs really were, most would be buying them still. But nah, they have to roll in some rolling bathtub on stilts that needs a stupid backup camera to even see out of. I guess they are at least already buying hatchbacks without knowing it. Don't tell em that though, that might not go over well at their next bottle-blonde convention.

I agree that mini-vans are a good option, but when you're a family of three it could be argued that lugging a 7-8 passenger van everywhere doesn't make sense. My wife, as an example, opted for a Yaris over a mini-van. You may ask how I can even compare a Yaris to a mini-van as mini-van's start at almost twice the price of a Yaris, but at two years old, mini-van's cost about the same as a Yaris. She didn't want to drive around a behemoth for the once per year we need to move things that warrant a van.

This does reveal another important point. If you're going to drive the vehicle into the ground, then a mini-van could make financial sense ... but if you may choose to sell in a couple years, might as well burn your money in the fireplace.

As an aside, I suppose you could argue a Yaris is kinda like a wagon. Hatchbacks are quite functional either way you look at it.

BTW - I don't know of many mini-vans without a rear-view camera option.

[MarkL]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Don't underestimate the value of extra clearance when you're driving in 30-50 cm of fresh, heavy snow. I've pushed more than my share of AWD cars with winter tires out of snowdrifts and deep ruts. Not that this is exactly a common concern in Calgary, mind you.

Also, most of your argument could be used to argue against needing winter tires, or 4/AWD. I drove for 15 years with all seasons in much worse winter weather than Calgary ever sees, and some of that in RWD, and survived just fine. Hell, I didn't experience ABS until the mid-late 90s. Doesn't mean the extra features aren't extremely nice to have on those rare occasions when you "need" them - just like the extra clearance a small SUV gets you.

Quite frankly, f clearance. I love my Santa Fe because of the extra visibility being that high up grants you. It's a ridiculous argument, I realize, because that just leads to height wars. But so long as most people drive regular cars, I see all. Muahahaha.

Edit: I missed what started this in the first place. For Calgary I'd recommend a car, unless you're an extreme outdoors type or a highway nut in the winter (and add some non-maintained roads into the mix). Living city-only, an SUV is just plain stupid. A minivan is far more practical - but then you look like a soccer mom, so if your ego is fragile, I guess that option is out.

I can't think of the last time Calgary has had more than 30 cm of snow, and I've lived here for 18 years. My Mazda 3 with shitty all seasons survives every winter, mind you I learned winter driving in Saskatchewan.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I agree that mini-vans are a good option, but when you're a family of three it could be argued that lugging a 7-8 passenger van everywhere doesn't make sense. My wife, as an example, opted for a Yaris over a mini-van. You may ask how I can even compare a Yaris to a mini-van as mini-van's start at almost twice the price of a Yaris, but at two years old, mini-van's cost about the same as a Yaris. She didn't want to drive around a behemoth for the once per year we need to move things that warrant a van.

When I said Minivans are the best options for families, I probably should've qualified it a bit. What I meant was for people who automatically feel like they need to step up into a crossover/SUV as soon as the birth is announced, a minivan is almost always a better option. A wagon/hatch is probably enough for most families with up to 2 kids, but for some that's a total no-go-zone….even though most cute utes are just hatchbacks on stilts.

I remember my mother in law saying "now that you have a child coming, you'll need to get an SUV". Not sure why exactly….maybe all of todays fat kids can't fit in a car? Although when she came over recently, and got to tool around in our V50, I think that swayed her mind a bit.

I definitely think you can get by a in a small car too. My brother and I were pretty much raised in cars that were never bigger than a Civic or Corolla….we even did a tour of Italy with 6 people crammed into a commie-era Skoda (although I would not recommend that!). People all around the world seem to be able to get by just fine in tiny hatchbacks…not sure why we need these giant tanks everywhere.

Although I will say, that with all the crap kids have today, it definitely takes up more space than when we were kids (we didn't even have a car seat back then). I would find it hard to do it in a Yaris these days, but if your wife is up for it, that's awesome.

[floobie]

So much discussion generated by a post I made nearly 2 months ago.

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

We should be friends.

K

Originally Posted by freeweed

Don't underestimate the value of extra clearance when you're driving in 30-50 cm of fresh, heavy snow. I've pushed more than my share of AWD cars with winter tires out of snowdrifts and deep ruts. Not that this is exactly a common concern in Calgary, mind you.

Also, most of your argument could be used to argue against needing winter tires, or 4/AWD. I drove for 15 years with all seasons in much worse winter weather than Calgary ever sees, and some of that in RWD, and survived just fine. Hell, I didn't experience ABS until the mid-late 90s. Doesn't mean the extra features aren't extremely nice to have on those rare occasions when you "need" them - just like the extra clearance a small SUV gets you.

Quite frankly, f clearance. I love my Santa Fe because of the extra visibility being that high up grants you. It's a ridiculous argument, I realize, because that just leads to height wars. But so long as most people drive regular cars, I see all. Muahahaha.

Edit: I missed what started this in the first place. For Calgary I'd recommend a car, unless you're an extreme outdoors type or a highway nut in the winter (and add some non-maintained roads into the mix). Living city-only, an SUV is just plain stupid. A minivan is far more practical - but then you look like a soccer mom, so if your ego is fragile, I guess that option is out.

Yeah, your edit about covers the context of my original post. So, I'm pretty sure we're in agreement. [slightly unreasonable rant]Except on you and your stupid high-up fetish!!! I'm pretty sure half the city thinks that way, to my eternal annoyance. Not that a Santa Fe is really a big deal, in the grand scheme of things, though. I just love backing out of parking spots surrounded by two F-350s, not being able to see a fucking thing around me until I've fully backed out and accidentally cut someone off! Or not being able to see the green/advance light at a left turn because some slow moving/turning behemoth is in my way. I would so be on board if they implemented a congestion charge specifically for trucks and big SUVs downtown.[/slightly unreasonable rant]

On UrbanX: This year, they've become my go-to source for tire stuff. Their prices and selection are as good as it gets locally.

On minivan excess: It depends. The "I have one child, I need a gigantic 2348923 seat vehicle to transport it" mentality is ridiculous. Until I was about 3 or 4, my parents had a mk II Golf and an Audi Coupe. I think it helped that they didn't feel the need to bring every single toy I owned and a gigantic mega-stroller with them whenever we left the house. In basically the entire rest of the world outside of North America, a Golf/Civic/Corolla/etc. is considered a full-on family car! That said, I guess there is a threshold where you do need some more seating to accommodate your offspring. 2-3 kids might break that threshold, depending on how much you shuttle around your kid's friends. And, in that case, a minivan makes a lot more sense than some gigantic Suburban-equivalent.

On wagons: It's dark days for wagons right now in North America. Manufacturers have basically ceased offering them here. Even Volvo, it seems. Audi, last I checked, is only offering the "All-road". My dream of one day driving a nice, understated-but-bloody-fast S4 wagon... probably not gonna happen.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by floobie

I just love backing out of parking spots surrounded by two F-350s, not being able to see a fucking thing around me until I've fully backed out and accidentally cut someone off! Or not being able to see the green/advance light at a left turn because some slow moving/turning behemoth is in my way. I would so be on board if they implemented a congestion charge specifically for trucks and big SUVs downtown.

Yup. I think the prior CW rant should specifically be focused on the large pick-ups and large SUVs (which, in large part, are the ones based on pick-up truck frames). A vast majority of SUVs are not in GM Suburban / Escalade / Yukon / F350 league when it comes to "parking the brain when thinking through a vehicle purchase" category. The advent of the smallish 4 cylinder SUV / cross-over is not as bad a phenomenon as sometimes made out.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

In Calgary, extra clearance is beneficial for maybe 3 days out the year. Being low to the ground and having better handling is beneficial for the other 362.

Yup. Just like winter/snow tires. Yet tens of thousands panic to put these on every year at the first cm of snow. Anyway, as I said, in the city clearance is just about never needed. Calgary's roads are bare and dry for pretty much the entire year, except for a handful of bad days. We get some bad drifting on my street, so every 2-3 years we have a day where I'd have to shovel the street in front of my driveway to get the low-clearance car in. Not exactly a crisis and certainly no reason to buy an SUV. I own one because I'm off of paved roads a lot

I would argue that these days you see way more soccer moms in cute-utes and SUVs than you do minivans.

Possibly, although there sure are a hell of a lot of minvans on the road. And they're all driven like the typical soccer mom (under the speed limit and cannot merge to save their life). Vans and SUVs have basically merged together in my driving perception - they're almost all driven poorly these days. I've just learned who to be more "defensive" around.

Oh and floobie: I totally agree with you on the height thing. It's basically an arms race to see who can get the tallest vehicle, and everybody loses eventually. But it's a guilty pleasure with me.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Yup. Just like winter/snow tires. Yet tens of thousands panic to put these on every year at the first cm of snow. Anyway, as I said, in the city clearance is just about never needed. Calgary's roads are bare and dry for pretty much the entire year, except for a handful of bad days. We get some bad drifting on my street, so every 2-3 years we have a day where I'd have to shovel the street in front of my driveway to get the low-clearance car in. Not exactly a crisis and certainly no reason to buy an SUV. I own one because I'm off of paved roads a lot




Possibly, although there sure are a hell of a lot of minvans on the road. And they're all driven like the typical soccer mom (under the speed limit and cannot merge to save their life). Vans and SUVs have basically merged together in my driving perception - they're almost all driven poorly these days. I've just learned who to be more "defensive" around.

Oh and floobie: I totally agree with you on the height thing. It's basically an arms race to see who can get the tallest vehicle, and everybody loses eventually. But it's a guilty pleasure with me.

I'm certain that it's been said many times in this thread, but "winter" tires aren't just for the benefit of clawing through snow and ice. They're made of a different rubber compound than a summer or "all season" (aka - best at nothing) tire that stays softer in cooler temperatures. I said cooler, because most "summer" tires are about as hard as hockey pucks under 3°C, and while the roads may be clear and dry a lot, it sure as shit is cooler than 3° for a lot of the winter around here.

The vast majority of drivers are terrible in ideal conditions. I'm all for a mass "panic" to put on winters if it helps these morons in less than ideal conditions. If you can't fix the operator, might as well give them better equipment.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Me&You

I'm certain that it's been said many times in this thread, but "winter" tires aren't just for the benefit of clawing through snow and ice. They're made of a different rubber compound than a summer or "all season" (aka - best at nothing) tire that stays softer in cooler temperatures. I said cooler, because most "summer" tires are about as hard as hockey pucks under 3°C, and while the roads may be clear and dry a lot, it sure as shit is cooler than 3° for a lot of the winter around here.

And winter tires begin to suffer performance issues once the temps climb above +5 or so (as high as +10 depending on whose marketing spin you believe). ESPECIALLY with a light skim of water on the road surface. The braking distance lost at warm temperatures can actually exceed what you gain in the cold temps.

Which makes them suffer just as badly in a city where we see above-freezing temperatures throughout the winter (but especially during the shoulder seasons where we get -10 one day, +10 the next). December-January is really the only period they do much consistent good here, but because we normally get snow from October through May, people use them for far longer than is smart.

Also, frictional heating always seems to be ignored in tire discussions. Anything above -20 and your all season tires soften up pretty fast once you're on the road. A matter of minutes, usually. Much below that - you're driving on square tires no matter what. I've never seen a tire that performs well at -30 or colder, which is why people in truly cold climates often don't bother with them. I know the manufacturer claims of -40, but having lived in one of the coldest cities in the country I just don't buy it. Hockey pucks at -35 with any kind of tire.

I've tested my braking distance with all sorts of tires, and short of the first couple of minutes when it's -20 or so, on dry pavement it doesn't really change much. At least if you aren't tailgating, where that extra 10% might make a difference. The biggest difference winter/all-weather tires makes is in the icy slush we have as it warms up here. For those few days, they're a godsend (especially with accelerating/higher speed turns).

We really need someone to formulate a tire for Calgary's unique climate. Unfortunately all seasons cover off most conditions the best, and they're a compromise. Unless you're perfect at predicting the weather, or you can change your tires depending on the day. I actually know people who switch between their vehicles (each with different tires) depending on the road conditions, but that's obviously not practical for many people. The closest I've found are so-called "all weather" tires which are almost rated as good as winters in cold/snow, but are designed to work well in summer as well. They're really just fancy all seasons so you're making a tradeoff no matter what, but they do work pretty well here.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Me&You

The vast majority of drivers are terrible in ideal conditions. I'm all for a mass "panic" to put on winters if it helps these morons in less than ideal conditions. If you can't fix the operator, might as well give them better equipment.

Haha great post! though I would have to retort that bad drivers with "better equipment" have a greater sense of safety and can be less attentive of how they are drving.

[Me&You]

Originally Posted by freeweed

And winter tires begin to suffer performance issues once the temps climb above +5 or so (as high as +10 depending on whose marketing spin you believe). ESPECIALLY with a light skim of water on the road surface. The braking distance lost at warm temperatures can actually exceed what you gain in the cold temps.

...

We really need someone to formulate a tire for Calgary's unique climate. Unfortunately all seasons cover off most conditions the best, and they're a compromise. Unless you're perfect at predicting the weather, or you can change your tires depending on the day. I actually know people who switch between their vehicles (each with different tires) depending on the road conditions, but that's obviously not practical for many people. The closest I've found are so-called "all weather" tires which are almost rated as good as winters in cold/snow, but are designed to work well in summer as well. They're really just fancy all seasons so you're making a tradeoff no matter what, but they do work pretty well here.

I've never heard of winter / softer compound tires "suffering" in warmer temps, and certainly not to the same degree that summer tires suffer in the cold... Can you elaborate?

I do agree that a tire with an even broader range of talents would be fantastic, but I just don't see that happening anytime soon. I guess I'll just stick to what works for me and that happens to be swapping out my summers for winters... As they say on the car forums, ymmv

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Haha great post! though I would have to retort that bad drivers with "better equipment" have a greater sense of safety and can be less attentive of how they are drving.

That's my contention with SUV drivers in general... They have a false sense of security whereby their perception of the increase in the vehicle's capability isn't commensurate to the real increase in anything... Hard to overcome that, but (shhh, don't tell Freeweed) I think winter tires would help... I've said it before (am I a broken record?), but I feel better in my high hp rwd car with winters than any SUV with all seasons or summers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soooooo... I realized winter's about half over (for the purposes of "summer" driving)... Anyone wanna talk sports cars to tide me over?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Me&You

I've never heard of winter / softer compound tires "suffering" in warmer temps, and certainly not to the same degree that summer tires suffer in the cold... Can you elaborate?

I do agree that a tire with an even broader range of talents would be fantastic, but I just don't see that happening anytime soon. I guess I'll just stick to what works for me and that happens to be swapping out my summers for winters... As they say on the car forums, ymmv



That's my contention with SUV drivers in general... They have a false sense of security whereby their perception of the increase in the vehicle's capability isn't commensurate to the real increase in anything... Hard to overcome that, but (shhh, don't tell Freeweed) I think winter tires would help... I've said it before (am I a broken record?), but I feel better in my high hp rwd car with winters than any SUV with all seasons or summers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soooooo... I realized winter's about half over (for the purposes of "summer" driving)... Anyone wanna talk sports cars to tide me over?

Winter tires can wear out really fast in the summer as the rubber gets really really soft. As long as you aren't spinning them at every opportunity they should be fine, but I would guess you would lose 1 season of driving due to them wearing out faster. I would never leave my winter tires on in the summer as they don't handle well, my favourite driving day is when I put my summers back on.

As for sports cars, anyone drive the Subaru BRZ yet? I want to sell my car this summer and am thinking that car might be a good replacement...

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Me&You

I've never heard of winter / softer compound tires "suffering" in warmer temps, and certainly not to the same degree that summer tires suffer in the cold... Can you elaborate?

My pleasure.

Choice excerpts (just a couple of quick grabs from the Google gods):

Winter tires lose grip as the temperatures climb above +7 C. Just as all-seasons wear tread faster in winter, winters wear faster in summer.

Winter tires are constructed to have flexible tread below freezing and they have lots more tread blocks with many sipes for ice grip. These elements do not work in warm weather. In fact they are counterproductive. As the tire rotates, the tread blocks come into contact with the pavement and heat is created as the block is compressed. The sipes open and close as they come into contact with the pavement and create more heat.

Heat is the worst enemy of a tire. This heat makes the tread blocks more flexible, which in turn creates more tread squirm, which in turn creates more heat, which in turn creates more squirm and so it goes. Heat in a tire causes the essential binding agents in a tire to break down. The tire will get a greasy feel because, in fact, it is chemically dissolving. Greasy tires do not grip.

...

In the magazine’s comparison tests of 2012 tires on a Chevy Cruze, it took winter tires about 24 feet (7 metres) further, on average, to stop compared to all-season tires when travelling at 60 mph (96.5 km/h) on a dry track in normal temperatures.

During the same test on a track sprayed with a thin layer of water, winter tires took about 31 feet further to stop.

“That’s one and a half, two car lengths longer,” Petersen said. “That could be the difference between avoiding an accident or not.”

When braking on ice from 10 mph (16 km/h), winter tires stopped at least 7 feet (2 metres) shorter, on average, than all-season tires. The best winter tire stopped about 15 feet (4.5 metres) shorter than the average all-season tire.

Granted that last one is comparing 2 very different speeds, but I can't find a good report on short notice. I've read studies in the past that show that in many cases, the increase in braking distance in warm temps is close to (and sometimes worse) than the savings you get at cold temps. Mind you on both ends we're talking about a 10-15% difference, so it's not exactly catastrophic in any direction.

It's a well-known problem, but something often overlooked by winter tire enthusiasts. Which is why I generally take these discussions with a huge grain of salt - a lot of people are just falling for marketing hype and thinking they're somehow "outsmarting" everyone else. I actually find that quite a lot of people with performance issues just drive on too-bald tires to begin with, and they blame their performance on "damned shitty all seasons!". So they buy winter tires, and voila! Traction again. Well, duh. Brand new tires kinda will do that for ya.

If winter tires were awesome all the time, they wouldn't be called winter tires. We'd just drive with them 12 months a year. And it's not just "your winter tires wear out faster in the summer" - that's a given and most people know this. But actual performance suffers a fair bit once you're much above freezing. Anyone who's experienced that "slippery" feeling as the tires start to soften knows what I'm talking about - sounds like Calgarian has had the pleasure.

[floobie]

It could also be said that all-seasons are definitely not created equally, or with the same "all season" performance in mind. On my old Civic, I was able to quite comfortably drive on the all-seasons exclusively for 2 or 3 (don't remember) winters before I bought a pair of winter tires for it. However, the all-seasons on my GTI don't handle snow and ice nearly as well. They're considerably wider to begin with (225 vs. 195), and the tread seems much more biased towards dry conditions. Picking up a cheap-ish set of winter tires for it made a gigantic difference, even in the dry.

Or, for a more extreme example, you can take my dad's various S4s over the years. They have never, ever come with anything that could be considered an all season tire. They're generally pure, z-rated, summer tires. He flat-out cannot use his summer tires in the winter.

I agree with Freeweed: Those who insist winter tires are always necessary are just as ridiculous as those who insist AWD or 10 metres of clearance is necessary. If you're smart, just figure it out for yourself. Take your car to the big, empty lot at McMahon at night after a snowfall, and have some fun. You'll get a pretty good feel for how much traction you have, and if you think you'd like to have some more.

Subaru BRZ: I have not driven one, but would love to. I was seriously considering one of these before getting my GTI. The concept is glorious. A simple, affordable, RWD, 6 speed manual, naturally aspirated sports coupe. Surprisingly difficult to come by these days. Reviews I've come across have been extremely encouraging. The Toyota version is apparently Jeremy Clarkson's car of the year, which I think does say something. In my case, practicality (and the desire for some low end torque after driving buzzy Hondas for years) won out. But, if you can make do with what is functionally a two seater, don't mind revving the piss out of the engine to get at the power, and enjoy kicking the back end out with a dose of throttle, it seems you can't do better for the money.

[CorporateWhore]

I have Michelin Pilot Super Sports on my car, and they pretty much turn to hard plastic around 2-3 degrees. Definitely pretty terrible. Although last December my wife and drove from NY to Calgary on them, so it's doable....you just have to be really careful. If I drove it year round, there is no question I'd get different tires for winter.

This year is the first time we've driven in winter tires (got them for my wifes car). I'm less concerned about snow than I am ice, and there is definitely a huge difference with these tires on. No comparison.

As for the BRZ, that's one car I'd love to give a test-drive to as well. The world needs more cheap RWD cars that are built for driving.

[kw5150]

I am still really loving the bmw 325 with blizzaks. I do not have all wheel drive. The other day, we drove out to farm and I was asked to park in this one area...it turned out to be so deep I was dragging bottom and plowing snow with my bumper.....got out no problem, but probably only because I didnt stop.....lol. Was a close call but pulled through.

Also drove through the steep areas of marda loop bankview a couple days ago and had no trouble with the rear wheel drive because of the blizzaks.

Good combo.

[MichaelS]

Does anybody know much about the new NSX (other than what is on the Acura website)?
http://www.acura.com/future/NSX#1

More specifically, how well do the proposed drivetrain of electric motors up front and gas driving the rear wheels work? I have heard they are similar to a NOS system, in that driving hard for a few minutes will drain the batteries of the electric motors and you will be out the extra power until they are recharged. Anybody know if this is true? Does another car currently use this system?

I was a huge fan of the original NSX, and am excited to see it being brought back. But I want it to be as good as the old, and fear they are making it a bit too complicated. Maybe not though.