Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Also, I was speaking with a theater professional recently about the UPAC, and he said that Salt Lake already has more theater seats than any city its size. I don't know where he got that statistic or if it's remotely true, but I wondered if anyone knows anything about that as well.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that is the case, on a city vs city basis, and I'm sure that is one of the arguments that the opponents of the PAC are using. There is a set of numbers, that if taken out of context, can support any argument.

I fully expect that there are many more theater seats in SLC (189,899) vs all cities of comparable size. (numbers according to 2011 estimates)
Little Rock Arkansas - 195,315
Mobile Alabama - 194,914
Columbus Georgia - 194,107
Amarillo Texas - 193,675
Glendale California - 193,111
Huntington Beach CA - 192,888
Salt Lake City
Grand Rapid Michigan - 189,815
Tallahasee Florida - 182,965
Huntville Alabama - 182,956

The difference is, NONE of these cities of "comparable size" are the central city of a major metropolitan area. If we take just the Salt Lake City CMSA, which only included Ogden Clearfield (not Provo)it is at 1.78 millions the 28th largest MSA in 2011.

The above are as follows:
Little Rock - 886,992 (47)
Mobile - 599,294 (62)
Columbus Georgia - 466,089 (72)
Amarillo Texas - not in the top 125
Glendale California - not in the top 125
Huntington Beach CA - not in the top 125
Salt Lake City
Grand Rapid Michigan - 1.33 million (35)
Tallahasee Florida - not in the top 125
Huntville Alabama - 579,550 (63)

So next time you talk to this person tell them that they may very well be correct, but that he/she should really look at the number of theater seats in the total metropolitan area. The metro area that is focused around that city as its core, as SLC is to the entire Wasatch Front.


The MSA's immediately above and below SLC are:
Austin-Round Rock 1.83
Raliegh-Durham 1.8
SLC-Ogden 1.78
Milwaukee-Racine 1.76
Nashville-Davidson 1.7

I would venture to guess that all those cities have a 2,500 seat PAC, and more overall seats than Salt Lake City.

[stayinginformed]

Originally Posted by scottharding

Does anyone know or have links to what is the master plan for the area around the Salt Lake Transit hub? I took the frontrunner of up to Ogden last week with some friends for some recreation, and now I'm very curious what the plan is for all that land they've razed.

Here is a link to the intermodal hub plan. http://www.slcrda.com/meetingsmin/2012/BOD/091112/7G_HubStrategy.pdf

[scottharding]

Thank you both Future Mayor and Stayinginformed for your replies.

FutureMayor: I've lived in Milwaukee, and I don't know if they have a major performing Arts center like the one proposed for Salt Lake. They definitely have a theatre like our Capitol (the Pabst) but I doubt they have as many seats at we do. Your observations make perfect sense to me about "city" size. The question then, I think, is how many of those major metro areas have the majority of their theater seats located in such a concentrated area as SLC does. The Capitol, the Rose Wagner, Abravenel, Pioneer, Kingsbury, Salt Lake Acting Co, etc. I'd be curious to know if they're more spread out or not.
Don't mistake me, I'm not arguing against the UPAC. But my friend's comments made me very curious.

[asies1981]

I grew up in Utah graduated from the University of Utah, but I have lived on the East Coast in Philadelphia for the past 5 1/2 years and I constantly find myself having to defend where I am from. Development is very connected to perception and desirability. Salt Lake isn't going to the explode in growth if the national perception of Utah doesn't change. When the legislature tried to remove 🞵🞵🞵 education from the schools I had people constantly asking me what was wrong with Utahns. The "Zion curtain" where drinks can't be made where they can be seen by others is another weird law that gained national attention. And today I was reading the Philadelphia Inquirer and came across this little gem, http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation...ngroupofferstrainingforutahteachers.html. There was a Washington Journal piece a few years ago that said companies were reluctant to move to Utah because their employees had negative perceptions of Utah. Utah ranks in the top for business but although there is growth it does not match other states ranked as high as Utah. Most of Utah's population growth in natural increase (meaning births). There are a lot of moderate people in Utah but the problem is that they have little national visibility. Lets be honest here, Utah isn't going to reach its economic and development potential until they work to change their national perception. That was a great thing about Huntsman when he was governor, he understood the need to change perceptions of Utah. Sorry about the rant but coming across that news story from a national outlet really pissed me off about the crazies in power in my home state.

[DCRes]

I took a drive down by the Salt Lake Central Station last week after shopping at the gateway to see the demolished building on the corner of 200 S and 600 W and i took a picture of the side of this building just west of the Rio Grande. It is a cool mural (not a real painted mural, just a banner really) of downtown. Also, there a a lot of pictures of downtown buildings on fences lining 300 S (I beleive they want to call it Festival Street after the development and the farmers market go in. There are even decals on the sidewalks with pictures of downtown buildings. It was pretty cool and gives the impression that something is about to happen in that area.

Sorry for the warped image, it was taken in panorama on my iPhone

[Lilljemalm]

[QUOTE=asies1981;5951292]I grew up in Utah graduated from the University of Utah, but I have lived on the East Coast in Philadelphia for the past 5 1/2 years and I constantly find myself having to defend where I am from. Development is very connected to perception and desirability. Salt Lake isn't going to the explode in growth if the national perception of Utah doesn't change...


You are right, that perceptions, be they true or not, often influence development more than reality does. I've encountered similar perceptions of Utah and other Rocky Mountain area states in my travels and places I've lived over the years. Phoenix, Boise, Denver, Albuquerque all suffer from bad perceptions, too. People don't take Las Vegas seriously when it comes to business development. The problem, however, it is a problem more on the east coast than anywhere else. In Atlanta, Philly, DC, Boston and NYC, I've encountered people with odd ideas about SLC, Phx, Portland and even Denver - all cities I've lived in. Amongst other things, they were surprised that there were freeways out west and that I didn't own a horse. West coasters don't have the bias nearly to the degree that east coasters do as they are closer and are more likely to visit.
One thing that has helped Utah a lot is Delta Airlines putting its western hub there. Delta brings a lot of people through SLC who otherwise wouldn't visit. It was a series of layovers in SLC that got Goldman Sach's to thinking.
One thing that hinders SLC is the census bureau. People look at SLC's population and see 186,000 and say it's too small. They don't look at SL County at 1.1 million or the entire Wasatch Front at 2.3 million. The census bureau should combind the 3 MSA's into one and SLC should annex all unincorporated areas immediately around it to enlarge its municipal population.
Another thing SLC should improve on is advertising itself. Colorado and Arizona do far more at promoting themselves than Utah does, and it shows.
When people I've known finally do visit mountain west and pacific northwest cities, they are always surprised at what they see. They always return most impressed with SLC, saying it is one of the prettiest and more progressive cities they've visited.
One point of interest is that I have encountered the opposite thinking from Europeans. In Europe, Utah has risen to near the top of places in North America to visit.
My current employer is from Quebec. Four years ago, they hired a Californian to decide where to put a US office. All the Canadians knew was that California was too expensive and so didn't want to be there, so the Californian they hired chose Phx. The Quebecois didn't know anything about the western US and simply did as the Californian said. The Canadians had a lot of trepidation about the move as they thought Phx was a small town with dirt streets. Now they wish they did more homework; now that their Canadian employees in Phx have explored the west a bit, they wish they had put the office in SLC.

[scottharding]

Some very fair observations, asies1981, and I share very similar thoughts, especially when I'm working out East. And while Lilljemalm made some good points about misconceptions, I'd say Utah's big issue isn't misconceptions, it's reality. Those things you mentioned; the Zion curtain, the 🞵🞵🞵 education debacle, the arms training for teachers and loads of other issues aren't misconceptions, they're facts. I've lived and worked in many places, from smaller towns to world-class cities, and I've made Salt Lake my home because I truly love it here, sometimes more for its potential than for its present, but I do love it. However, there's no denying that Utah's culture is quite different from the mainstream, often to a comic extreme, and I definitely agree that it hurts us in regards to development, economy, tourism, etc. Now I won't deny that some of those oddities have some very positive effects, but on the whole, I think Utah's detractors are often right about those things.
I don't wish to offend anyone. These are my own opinions in response to what was written above. I love SLC, but it's the only city (and I mean city proper) where I could happily live in Utah. I think the rest of the state (as a general populace) is a good half-century behind most mainstream social and political issues. For instance, Utah was recently declared the worst state in the nation for equal wages between men and women. Utah also creates social, political and religious mountains out of issues that are hardly even molehills in most other areas. Those things are facts. It's no surprise to me that this is a grand turn-off to some people, and these things surely help to feed misconceptions and out-right falsehoods about what it's like out here. My own business partner, who lives in NY has many friends here and works here at least half of the year, can't bring himself to move here because he doesn't want to be associated with the stigma. While I think that's a little extreme, I know he's not the only person like that.
There are so many wonderful things about this place. I couldn't count them all. And like I said, I love it here, and having lived here for a good while, I know that many of those issues really don't make one's life that different from how it would be anywhere else. We all can pretty much live the kind of life we want wherever you live in America. But from the outside looking in, Utah- and SLC by extension- is every bit as peculiar as its most "peculiar people" want it to be.

[Wasatch_One]

I like that people perceive us as a bit strange because it helps weed out those not really willing to have an open mind and see a place for what it is.

I work for a Fortune 500 company and have traveled out east often for the better part of a decade (NYC, Philly, Columbus, Miami, etc.) Also, my wife is from New Jersey. I know the area well.

The truth of the matter is that many people out east know of one place and one place only (in the US)... the East Coast. They have a hard time 1. believing that there are places besides the East Coast megalopolis and 2. (gasp) better places (subjective) could exist than where they were born, raised and in many cases, have never experienced anything else. Californians are much the same way (cough, I used, cough, to be one, cough ...but somehow escaped that dump)

To have someone out there sling an obvious ignorant and/or disparaging remark at us, is no skin off my back. They would probably say the same thing about Denver or Portland or Dallas or any other "lesser" city when realistically these are all great places.

I also feel that the way East Coasters view us, is the same way that SLC'ers look at the rest of the state... in ignorance (as scott so kindly demonstrated for us).

Reality is this, Utah will continue its torrid population & economic growth patterns (something like the 4th fastest population growth over the past 4 decades) be it via internal growth or not makes no difference, cause we have something great here. Whatever it is that may make us "odd" to those outside of here makes us strong economically (5% unemployment). We are being noticed, trust me. I actually find that intelligent people outside the state, willing to peel back a few longstanding fallacies, know what is going on here and are looking to benefit from it. As wasteful states continue down their inevitable bankrupt paths, we will continue to receive the benefitting windfall. And it will accelerate and possible already has.

[Just A Thought]

On the subject of overseas perceptions of Utah, I can only really comment on the Brits. Being one and having lived in London for 35 years, I can honestly say if there was a direct flight from London to SLC (and was properly marketed), many Brits would seriously consider Utah as a cheap skiing alternative to the Alps. All my buddies that I have persuaded to visit have felt the overall journey experience much more fun and more of an adventure than the French/Italian equivalent and at a very comparative price point. The only downer is the very long trip here. The French which do have a direct flight here, ironically, already have great skiing.

The French are a harder sell, go for the Brits Delta Airways. And hopefully with the 49% purchase of Virgin Atlantic, we may get a few more tourist here.

[DMTower]

I think you nailed it on the head Scottharding. Peoples negative impressions of Utah are unfortunately correct much of the time. What they don't see on the surface though, is that there is a balance of equally progressive people in Utah as well. Things are changing slowly, with companies like Adobe and Goldman's locating here. Hopefully the momentum will continue to pick up and people's perceptions of Utah will change.

[TonyAnderson]

Unique view of the Federal Courthouse from one of the American Towers



http://www.saltlakedigs.idxco.com/idx/13785/photoGallery.php?idxID=150&listingID=1133569

[delts145]

Thanks Wasatch One for pretty much summing up the reality of perception. I very much agree with pretty much everything you posted.

Seriously LOL, is there a community/metro in this world that doesn't practice a fair amount of judgemental attitude. Here in L.A., bigotry is very alive and well. There are so many derisive comments of one area against another, it is quite amusing. The drum beat of negative attitude is constant, whether it's negative attitudes about specific areas like Santa Monica, West Hollywood, and Beverly Hills, or a bias against general areas such as Central L.A., K-Town, the Valley, the O.C. and on and on. Usually, it's all about the person your dealing with. There will always be narrow minded attitudes, who come from both the far left, to the far right.

SLC continues to make many improvements, and should just continue along the path it's on. I mean, how many metros are constantly on someones top ten list like the Wasatch Front is. Hardly a week goes by that a major mainstream publication, website or beauty contest does not put the SLC Metro at the top five, ten, or at least top third of their latest study.

Oh, and purely by coincidence, here's an excellent example in another one of dozens of mainstream accolades for Salt Lake.


Travelocity: Salt Lake among Top 10 New Year’s Eve spots

By steven oberbeck | The Salt Lake Tribune, First Published Dec 27 2012

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/55532771-79/travelocity-eve-lake-salt.html.csp

Even before officials announced national acts would be added to the mix this year, Salt Lake City’s New Year’s Eve celebration was building a national reputation.

Travelocity, the well-known travel website, has named Utah’s capital, one of the Top 10 destinations for those seeking a fun-filled vacation as they welcome in the new year.

The list, compiled by Travelocity’s travel experts, is based on popularity, affordability and best celebrations...



At a glance - Travelocity’s Top 10


1. Miami Beach


2. Las Vegas


3. Toronto


4. New York City


5. Denver


6. Los Angeles


7. New Orleans


8. Austin, TX


9. Washington, D.C.


10. Salt Lake City

.

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by DMTower

...with companies like Adobe and Goldman's locating here. ...

Adobe didn't move here, they simply choose to expand operations here after they acquired Omniture.

[DMTower]

I misspoke. I'm aware that they acquired Omniture. I was referring to their new building and their continued investment in Utah. A close friend of mine works for Adobe and told me they have already filled up the building and are needing more space. He works from home in the avenues and forfeited his office because they need every ounce of space they can get.

[scottharding]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

I also feel that the way East Coasters view us, is the same way that SLC'ers look at the rest of the state... in ignorance (as scott so kindly demonstrated for us).

It's not ignorance at all. I've lived in other places in this state. I'm very familiar with most of the cities and towns in Utah. That's great if other people find them to be a paradise, but for myself, there's no way in hell I could live anywhere in Utah but SLC. By the same token, I'm sure there are places that you know you could never be happy living. It's a personality thing.

And I agree with everyone's comments about what a great and desirable place this metro is. I was commenting on some the of the very bizarre traditions and attitudes that permeate the culture. Every state, city, and country has a strangeness of their own, but my experience and opinion is that Utah's is rather more extreme than most places.
I think anytime anyplace is dominated by a single demographic (race, religion, politics, etc) then it becomes stagnant and sort of cannibalizes its own ideas and becomes, for lack of a better word, peculiar. We see this often throughout history, and in the extreme cases, those cultures will collapse on themselves, like Salem Mass, or the FLDS towns today. Diversity of ethnicity, culture, arts, education, religion, and politics is what keeps a society healthy and dynamic. So I believe that Utah will continue to prosper and grow and change for the better as it becomes more diverse and good ideas are built upon, and bad ideas are done away with.

[shakman]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

I also feel that the way East Coasters view us, is the same way that SLC'ers look at the rest of the state... in ignorance (as scott so kindly demonstrated for us).

This East Coaster had many positive experiences when I took my Mountain West vacation from 2010 into 2011. Most of the time was spent in SLC.

[Lilljemalm]

Originally Posted by TonyAnderson

Unique view of the Federal Courthouse from one of the American Towers



http://www.saltlakedigs.idxco.com/idx/13785/photoGallery.php?idxID=150&listingID=1133569

Got to find a quality developer for that parking lot south of the courthouse.

[Wasatch_One]

Originally Posted by DMTower

I misspoke. I'm aware that they acquired Omniture. I was referring to their new building and their continued investment in Utah. A close friend of mine works for Adobe and told me they have already filled up the building and are needing more space. He works from home in the avenues and forfeited his office because they need every ounce of space they can get.

Actually you were right. With the new building, Adobe did in fact "move here" now that they are property owners and have a presence in the state. They have also hired 3-400 people in Utah since acquiring Omniture (1,000 total in the state). Ground prep work is going on for phase two of three at the campus that will become Adobe's second largest office in the world with 2,500-3k employees.

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by Wasatch_One

...The truth of the matter is that many people out east know of one place and one place only (in the US)... the East Coast. They have a hard time 1. believing that there are places besides the East Coast megalopolis....

After living in Manhattan for several years, I can attest to this, most New Yorkers think there is no life outside NY. A lot of them think there's no life in Brooklyn or Queens, let alone outside the city.

At the time I lived in NY, one of my best friends was (and still is) living in Boston. He said to me that there was quite the rivalry between Boston and NY. I told him that I don't think NY had noticed and it was entirely one-sided.

Despite the majority, every skier I ran into told me they skied Utah. And when I was first making the rounds applying for jobs, I had a lot of people say a LOT of nice things about Utah and especially the University of Utah.


Also, I noticed something interesting when watching TV in NY, the majority of the commercials seemed to be filmed in either CA, NY, or Utah, with quite a large number of commercials filmed in Utah (some labeled as Utah and some I just recognized as Utah).

[Stenar]

Originally Posted by DMTower

I misspoke. I'm aware that they acquired Omniture. I was referring to their new building and their continued investment in Utah. A close friend of mine works for Adobe and told me they have already filled up the building and are needing more space. He works from home in the avenues and forfeited his office because they need every ounce of space they can get.

My brother-in-law works for Utah County, he also told me that Adobe is bringing another 1,000 jobs very soon to Utah than were previously announced and they're going to have to start building more buildings right away.