ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[Tuckerman]

Agree very much with Kenn - nice observations. Just returned from Paris and London and observed that Paris has not changed much in the 40 years I have been going there, but London is really bustling and changing into a modern city. But, Like Kenn, when I return to Atlanta I feel pretty good with how it is progressing. Obviously skyscraper building is weak at present, but there are a lot of secondary fill-ins that have given ATL less of that "big building-parking lots" feel that so characterizes cities like ATL, Dallas and Houston.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

Agree very much with Kenn - nice observations. Just returned from Paris and London and observed that Paris has not changed much in the 40 years I have been going there, but London is really bustling and changing into a modern city. But, Like Kenn, when I return to Atlanta I feel pretty good with how it is progressing. Obviously skyscraper building is weak at present, but there are a lot of secondary fill-ins that have given ATL less of that "big building-parking lots" feel that so characterizes cities like ATL, Dallas and Houston.

Agreed

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by Kenn

- There doesn't seem to be any progress on the streetcar. And poor Auburn is really in need of a does of adrenaline too. The area has nothing in terms of retail or dining.

Agreed on everything else you said, especially regarding ATLstn, but the streetcar is hard at work reworking underground utilities. It's delayed because the utilities were more tangled than expected, and they even ran into the rail from the original streetcar.

[ChrisInmanPark]

From the Atlanta Business Chronicle...

A full-service Hyatt hotel will break ground early next year in Dunwoody, one of metro Atlanta’s fastest rebounding office markets.

The 173-room hotel will be built adjacent to the Villa Christina restaurant and conference center at Perimeter Summit, an 83-acre development with 1.4 million square feet of class A office space.

The hotel will accommodate Villa Christina’s bustling business. With about 20,000 square feet of meeting space, the Italian-themed facility hosts more than 1,000 events a year, including weddings and corporate events.

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by Kenn

- If you look at an arial of Peachtree Circle/I-85/Brookwood and Atlantic Station there is very little distance over 85 and then 75 for MARTA to connect first Brookwood at the Amtrak station and then AS. The spur could sprout off right from the existing bridge over 85. Or, I believe MARTA has already built a spur from the current tunnel pointing right toward Brookwood which was put in place when the system was originally under construction and there was still hope of running a line up 75 to Cobb. These two stations would first re-connect Peachtree where it was sliced off from Midtown and Downtown and then, more important, connect the increasingly important islands of AS and the Westside. MARTA needs to build more tiny spurs to spots where people want to go - and increasingly already are - and stop with the "outward and onward" nonsense which does nothing but stretch the already thin trunk lines.

This was MARTA's original plan to have a Northwest link that would split off after Art Center Station and have a station at Brookwood Amtrak Station. Then continuing up to Cobb County. They built the tunnel in anticipation for the line, but as you know it was never built. You can see the spur tunnel if you ride at the front of the train. You can see this line in the old map that used to be on the trains back in the 90s.



Here is more info on this and many other lines that were never built.

http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/MARTA_Provisions

[Tuckerman]

Interesting also is that the Emory N Druid Hills spur is on that map; originally the line was to go all the way to Tucker and Northlake Mall. This shows that the original planner got it right and did have a vision. A pity that decades later we are still struggling to get these pieces added.

[ChrisInmanPark]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

Interesting also is that the Emory N Druid Hills spur is on that map; originally the line was to go all the way to Tucker and Northlake Mall. This shows that the original planner got it right and did have a vision. A pity that decades later we are still struggling to get these pieces added.

Yeah, that line was partly going to become the Clifton Corridor light rail segment as part of the TSPLOST. And we all know what happened with that.

If you've ever been to Avondale Estates station, you will notice there are 3 platforms, like Lindbergh Center. This was built in anticipation of another line going NE through Clarkston and out to Stone Mountain. Oh what could have been.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by ChrisInmanPark

Yeah, that line was partly going to become the Clifton Corridor light rail segment as part of the TSPLOST. And we all know what happened with that.

If you've ever been to Avondale Estates station, you will notice there are 3 platforms, like Lindbergh Center. This was built in anticipation of another line going NE through Clarkston and out to Stone Mountain. Oh what could have been.

that certainly can still be— i need to draw up a map of what it would be like if we had all the money to do these sorts of projects.

[(four 0 four)]

Originally Posted by Zanarkand A East

Sorry if that doesn't excite you , but many of us are extremely excited about this

I think this sums up how most Atlantans feel about the stadium:


From ajc.com

[trainiac]

Hi Kenn, thanks for all your observations. I've got some more info on this one:

Originally Posted by Kenn

- Inman Park, particularly around Highland, is starting to coalesce into a nice, dense walkable area. I don't understand what the objection is to the new Elizabeth St infill development. The proposal looks great - more residents and more street life which is exactly what Atlanta should be encouraging.

We actually did approve it. Then 3 residents attempted to do an endrun around the NPU with a lawsuit about the process by which it was approved. The only bright spot is it gives Dad's Garage and Victory Sandwich a little more time in the neighborhood. I want to keep them here!

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by ChrisInmanPark

Yeah, that line was partly going to become the Clifton Corridor light rail segment as part of the TSPLOST. And we all know what happened with that.

If you've ever been to Avondale Estates station, you will notice there are 3 platforms, like Lindbergh Center. This was built in anticipation of another line going NE through Clarkston and out to Stone Mountain. Oh what could have been.

If only. That's probably the "easiest" major expansion we could do to MARTA, and only partially because the platforms in Avondale are already set up for it.

It really seems like everybody wins: you serve suburbanites in Gwinnett, transit-dependent folks in Clarkston, tourists, and enhance transit in places like Decatur (which is marginalized by only having service every 15 minutes right now). I can't think of any other lines with that many "wins" in its column. But alas, nobody is seriously pursuing it.


Back to highrises, it must be pretty soon that Skyhouse will open up, no? it looks like they are putting the finishing touches on it. I personally can't wait; adding a few hundred people to the neighborhood overnight will provide a noticeable bump in street activity.

[Kenn]

Originally Posted by trainiac

Hi Kenn, thanks for all your observations. I've got some more info on this one:


We actually did approve it. Then 3 residents attempted to do an endrun around the NPU with a lawsuit about the process by which it was approved. The only bright spot is it gives Dad's Garage and Victory Sandwich a little more time in the neighborhood. I want to keep them here!

These businesses could be infilling the empty spots throughout the area. And while I don't know how much space the theatre needs there seems to be some unconverted warehouse space along Highland or just behind it. More observations:

- the Westside is already a tremendous spot and has such potential too. I ate lunch at Star Provisions and struck up a conversation with a native of St. Louis. She said her city has nothing like the area and actually lamented how little her city had by way of unique stores and artisan bakery restaurants. I always thought of St. Louis as a great old city with lively and authentic districts but I hear people in LA praise Atlanta often too and LA has just about everything.
- Speaking of the Westside it's probably got the most authentic character of any intown shopping and dining area in the whole city. The gritty manufacturing and construction and warehouse activity actually add a nice feel to the place. I hope a balance can be found as the area continues to develop.
- The Atlanta Botanical Garden has matured into a true gem. I haven't visited many botanical gardens in my travels but it's got to be considered a worthy addition to any list of great gardens. The Holiday display is spectacular. I also thought the canopy walk had a majesty to it. I've heard whinning about how the walk is too short - which is to miss the entire point. It's not a ride, it's a unique place to stop and listen and contemplate the natural beauty of the surroundings.
- The power lines are all too prominent and ugly along major boulevards. They're everywhere in LA too but since the built environment is generally bad they aren't something you notice. Atlanta is so blessed with such a lush, rolling landscape - even in the dense core - that the power lines unfortunately stand out as an aesthetic mess. 10th street along the edge of Piedmont is just one of many gross offenders. And I point this stretch out since it is illustrative of an otherwise great area - of which Atlanta has scores - made almost unwalkable due to the ugly streetscape. Walkers need to feel safe and a feeling of safety and aesthetics are inextricably linked.
- Maybe the Woodruff foundation could step in and help. I know they have given grants to the Midtown Alliance but maybe they could create a grant program or endowment to specifically bury all of the power and utility lines in Atlanta's core. Perhaps the Midtown Alliance could oversee such a program. They shown themselves to be excellent stewards all these years.
- One more aesthetic hiccup: the old steel mast poles which were simply painted green to blend in with the new Atlanta lights. They aren't fooling anyone. Perimeter Center has custom mast poles and so does Freedon Park. Midtown and Downtown deserve better. New poles would complete an already impressive transformation and the before and after pictures, which are already impressive, would be stunning.
- Decatur has become a nifty little area. It just might be my favorite spot to park and walk around. The scale and pace are just right and the restaurant and retail has reached a critical mass. I can't understand why there isn't infill development all over the downtown area.
- Shaun Doty's new spot Bantam & Biddy is worth a trip. It's excellent all around. He's opening a new restaurant in AS which will be similar but have its own ambiance. BTW... the cherry pie at B&B is the best i've ever had.

Till my next trip!

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by Kenn

- Speaking of the Westside it's probably got the most authentic character of any intown shopping and dining area in the whole city. The gritty manufacturing and construction and warehouse activity actually add a nice feel to the place. I hope a balance can be found as the area continues to develop.

I had a holiday party there recently, and I like the warehouse feel. I also used to work at King Plow, and I like how the Westside/Marietta Artery has a great view of the skyline and feels more accessible to town since there's less in the way. I hope the southwest portion of the Beltline trail helps connect this area to West End and other neighborhoods and fills in big gaps with quality retail.

[Zanarkand A East]

Originally Posted by (four 0 four)

I think this sums up how most Atlantans feel about the stadium:


From ajc.com

If so, then most Atlantans don't realize that

1) the hotel/motel tax can't be used on schools,

2) they won't be paying for the new stadium unless they stay in Fulton County hotels, and the surrounding infrastructure and transportation improvements near the stadium (which the mayor specifically guaranteed this week in his 790 The Zone interview) that their taxes may be used for is actually on their wish list, and

3) the events and tourism that the new stadium will attract will bring tax revenue that actually can be used on better schools, transportation, and infrastructure.

Most of the pushback I've heard on this is from people that are anti-tax and anti-anything-that-feels-like-a-tax, but the hotel/motel tax isn't even a new tax, and no one is forced to buy season tickets with or without PSL's.

Santa (Arthur Blank and tourists) will gift Atlanta with a new stadium, and Atlantans will benefit from it in many ways and still complain.

[Tuckerman]

Definitely agree with Kenn (lot's of agreement these days!) on the overhead wires. They are so ugly and especially so on streets like 14th with all the great skyscrapers. I have some very nice picture of that area, but I am always struck by the black wire lines cutting across the image. In older cities, especially in residential areas, these lines were out of view and in the back alleys. Atlanta lacks the grid layout that had all these alley ways for utilities and garbage collection and so we must adjust by burying the lines and using attractive (if that's possible) garbage cans and bags. There is no doubt in my mind that aesthetics is very important in the image of a city and Atlanta is fortunate to have lots of trees and winding, hilly streets, so nature has done its job.

[ChrisInmanPark]

So it looks like Amtrak is moving forward with building their new station in Atlantic Station inside a massive new development. So much for putting it in the MMPT in downtown.

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/amtrak-station-to-move-to-atlantic-station/vkG2S/

[simms3_redux]

Thanks Kenn!

Folks,

I am moving to CA (SF) in a matter of weeks and I just wanted to say as great as SF is in almost all respects, I will truly miss ATL <3. I think times are *just now* getting really exciting for Atlanta and I will miss being in the thick of the transformation. SF is "already there" and so it's simply a matter of enjoying the city and trying not to overpay on your rent, but Atlanta offers a lot as it is and for those of us in real estate is a fun city to work in as we're trying to take Atlanta "there".

Still, there is much to be improved about Atlanta. The fact that we are slowly putting together the MMPT (akin to a smaller Transbay Terminal going up right now in SOMA) and it won't include Amtrak is but one of the many setbacks that Atlanta faces. The TSPLOST was another. Novare's pillage of the Midtown cityscape with its massive ugly garages is yet another. The influence of inexperienced, conservative suburban dwellers on the city is still present in almost every facet.

I am confident that things will continue to get better each year and that someday Atlanta will truly be a progressive urban city with the will to have a thriving 24/7 cosmopolitan core (hey at least you can take to the bank that the nightlife in Atl is actually better than in most of CA as bars shut down early and the gay "scene" is a million times larger than SF's, and more attractive).

[NYbyWAYofGA]

Originally Posted by simms3_redux

Thanks Kenn!

Folks,

I am moving to CA (SF) in a matter of weeks and I just wanted to say as great as SF is in almost all respects, I will truly miss ATL <3. I think times are *just now* getting really exciting for Atlanta and I will miss being in the thick of the transformation. SF is "already there" and so it's simply a matter of enjoying the city and trying not to overpay on your rent, but Atlanta offers a lot as it is and for those of us in real estate is a fun city to work in as we're trying to take Atlanta "there".

Still, there is much to be improved about Atlanta. The fact that we are slowly putting together the MMPT (akin to a smaller Transbay Terminal going up right now in SOMA) and it won't include Amtrak is but one of the many setbacks that Atlanta faces. The TSPLOST was another. Novare's pillage of the Midtown cityscape with its massive ugly garages is yet another. The influence of inexperienced, conservative suburban dwellers on the city is still present in almost every facet.

I am confident that things will continue to get better each year and that someday Atlanta will truly be a progressive urban city with the will to have a thriving 24/7 cosmopolitan core (hey at least you can take to the bank that the nightlife in Atl is actually better than in most of CA as bars shut down early and the gay "scene" is a million times larger than SF's, and more attractive).

Aw man. First of all, congrats on this life changing move. You will learn so much about yourself on this journey. Try to take it all in. We will miss your very informative posts. You have been a great asset here. Please continue to chime in. Best regards!

[Zanarkand A East]

Architects get glimpse of stadium plan

Details about the number and location of seats, club seats, and suites, and overall size.

[micropundit]

http://midtown.patch.com/articles/dual-branded-hotel-opens-in-midtown#photo-12544409