Calgary Public Transit II

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by eggbert

City releases 30 year RouteAhead report
CBC News Posted: Dec 7, 2012 5:30 PM MT Last Updated: Dec 7, 2012 6:35 PM
RouteAhead Report
(Note:CBC does not endorse and is not responsible for the content of external links.)

The city of Calgary released the RouteAhead report on Friday which lays out the blueprint for Calgary Transit's future.

The report covers short-term improvements such as bringing wi-fi service to C-Train stations and providing real time information on the internet for all buses.

It also includes long-term plans for dedicated busways, more bus rapid transit routes and a new LRT line from the far north end of Calgary to the new South Hospital.

The plan comes with a $13 billion price tag over the next three decades.

Read More http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/12/07/calgary-transit-route-ahead.html?cmp=rss

I can already imagine the comments about the cost. What the city needs to do when it comes up with these figures, is include an estimate of the cost of road maintenance and expansion to maintain the levels of traffic the transit plan expects to do. Everyone hears "$13 billion for transit", when did anyone ever hear a 30 yr estimate of how much road work and new roads are expected to cost over the next 30 yrs?

[Ferreth]

Just came back from touring the new line. Great to see lots of people out despite the -15C weather. I was not expecting to be packed in like sardines on some of the trains - there were a few delays. I love the new line. Even my Dad who is not easily impressed said it was like an S-Baun line out of Berlin. I didn't get as many pictures as I'd like between the delays and Dad in tow, but I got some good ones - enjoy!


Sunalta Platform in the Sky i7591 by ferreth, on Flickr


Sunalta South Entrance i7589 by ferreth, on Flickr


Sunalta Copper Inside i7592 by ferreth, on Flickr


Sunalta 15 Level i7588 by ferreth, on Flickr


Sunalta Platforms i7586 by ferreth, on Flickr


Sunalta Outbound view i7584 by ferreth, on Flickr


Westbrook Stairs to Outbound Platform 7599 by ferreth, on Flickr


Westbrook Platform i7594 by ferreth, on Flickr


69th St Station Platform LRT i7602 by ferreth, on Flickr

[Tills13]

Jeez this makes me miss Calgary.

When's it supposed to open for good?

[DizzyEdge]

Monday.

[Vascilli]

Originally Posted by Tills13

Jeez this makes me miss Calgary.

When's it supposed to open for good?

This. Can't wait to be back for the holidays.

[frinkprof]

Here's an interesting item:

Beyond.ca co-founder Shelton Kwan (screen name rage2) and his girlfriend accept a challenge to give up their cars for a week and rely exclusively on walking and transit. It's for a good cause as they are using this challenge to solicit donations to the Calgary Food Bank.

For those who don't know, beyond.ca is a Calgary-based automotive enthusiast forum, so the "give up your car" challenge has a much larger impact there than it would in most other online communities, especially here at SSP.

Thread link (warning, some NSFW language): http://forums.beyond.ca/st/361220/the-rage2-car-less-for-a-week-challenge-started-dec-3-9/

Daily blog series documenting the week: http://www.beyond.ca/car-less-in-calgary-day-1-of-the-car-free-challenge/20697.html

[mellbell416]

i just read through some of the new Route Ahead document and the SE transitway and LRT are scheduled ahead of the NC equivalents, which surprised me even though the SE is definitely underserviced because Centre St. is packed with full buses during peak hours whereas the SE BRT isn't getting a lot of ridership...More details in this article -

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...lan+Much+more+transit/7668659/story.html

[DizzyEdge]

Seeing all the vacant land in this streetview

https://maps.google.com/?ll=51.126543,-1...RcR7SBI7nAMgndc-Q&cbp=12,164.59,,0,-1.59

Is the NE leg the first line to actually have put the station in ahead of the game, ready for the commercial to be built shortly? Seems like once Tuscany is in all 4 legs will be more or less caught up finally, within about a km of the edge of town. Well maybe except for the south line, where/when is the next station planned past Somerset-Bridlewood?

I'm also curious about the Martindale station, what the city envisions as the grow-out around that station, being that it's plopped right in the middle of mostly sfh. Did the city happen to pre-zone the adjacent area for higher density residential? If not I'm wondering if there will be battles to keep the area low rise for decades.

Also, although I prefer alley-access garages rather than "snout houses", I don't mind this configuration

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Marti...Z9YxwttALn1FbYaAkA&cbp=12,170.86,,0,3.67

At least with this you have a proper "house", with attached garage, rather than little bits peaking over and around a garage door.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

where/when is the next station planned past Somerset-Bridlewood?

Silverado Station and 210th Avenue, likely to be done as a single extension and possibly include a new LRV maintenance/storage facility at 210th Avenue.

Timeline unknown, which is par for the course.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by mellbell416

i just read through some of the new Route Ahead document and the SE transitway and LRT are scheduled ahead of the NC equivalents, which surprised me even though the SE is definitely underserviced because Centre St. is packed with full buses during peak hours whereas the SE BRT isn't getting a lot of ridership...More details in this article -

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgar...lan+Much+more+transit/7668659/story.html

One thing that may not be obvious is that the plans call for the NC-SE LRT to have a tunnel through downtown, north along 2nd St W. There would be no rail connection to the existing lines (which also enables the use of newer low-floor designs that are incompatible with the existing LRT). So on the day any NC-SE service opens with trains, there needs to be a maintenance facility built and ready. There is not one square foot of land appropriate for a heavy train maintenance facility along Centre/Edmonton Tr between the downtown and Stoney Trail. On the other hand, once the train is past Inglewood/Ramsay, it passes through more-or-less nothing but suitable lands on at least one side all the way to Ogden (where, ironically, there is no place to build a rail maintenance facility because there is a rail maintenance facility).

I suppose the wild card is the Vic Park bus barns; the NC-SE LRT goes right past them at grade, and you could build a rail connection into the site and repurpose it for LRT maintenance and repair. An opening segment could then go from the at-grade 2nd St SE station through the full downtown tunnel and north from there. But that requires replacement bus barns to be built elsewhere (which are in the plans), and precludes selling the site for redevelopment, until the train is built into the SE.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

One thing that may not be obvious is that the plans call for the NC-SE LRT to have a tunnel through downtown, north along 2nd St W. There would be no rail connection to the existing lines (which also enables the use of newer low-floor designs that are incompatible with the existing LRT). So on the day any NC-SE service opens with trains, there needs to be a maintenance facility built and ready. There is not one square foot of land appropriate for a heavy train maintenance facility along Centre/Edmonton Tr between the downtown and Stoney Trail. On the other hand, once the train is past Inglewood/Ramsay, it passes through more-or-less nothing but suitable lands on at least one side all the way to Ogden (where, ironically, there is no place to build a rail maintenance facility because there is a rail maintenance facility).

What about in Highland park industrial area (particularly if an Edm Trail alignment) or here?

https://maps.google.com/?ll=51.13839,-11...-YwLdx69alDqu46Rtsg&cbp=12,93.71,,0,-0.9

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

What about in Highland park industrial area (particularly if an Edm Trail alignment) or here?

https://maps.google.com/?ll=51.13839,-11...-YwLdx69alDqu46Rtsg&cbp=12,93.71,,0,-0.9

I forgot about the south part of Aurora; I suppose that is a possibility, although it would be better off as TOD. Highland Park is only possible from Edmonton Tr; it's a steep-ass hill from Centre or 4th.

And in the interest of covering all the bases, a Nose Creek alignment could have a site at Spring Gardens or elsewhere in the industrial area, or, since it would be a spur from the 202, could use the OBMF in Westwinds -- except that it is already at capacity(!) per my skim of Route Ahead.

[mellbell416]

I like the vision for public transit that the Route Ahead presents, even though I don't know where the hell they are going to find the funding for it, and they don't seem to know either. Apparently 68% of it is unfunded (although I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio were higher than that). But I would rather see too much ambition and vision than too little- it gives you something to shoot for. It would have been great to see a comparison of the costs of building public transit vs. the monetary benefits (e.g. lowering the cost of building and maintaining extra roads,less smog).so that the $13B cost could be put in perspective.

I love that they are going to make some buses run on a reliably frequent basis - for example, the # 1 and #72 are going to be run every ten minutes all the time. There is nothing more depressing than waiting for that bus. That . Never Comes. and the 72 has, in the past, fallen into that category, especially when. the roads were bad.

[PPAR]

The plan always comes before the money. With Route Ahead at least Calgary has a concrete (?steel) vision of where we want to go. This proposal can now be weighed by other levels of Government against things like F-35 Fighters and Police Training Schools.

[Wooster]

Part of the purpose of the plan is to try and attract funding. If other levels of government do not have a clear idea of what the City's vision, it is hard for them to support funding it, particularly at this magnitude. See what happened with TransitCity in Toronto, it was able to attract billions of dollars in funding committments.

The City is also in City Charter negotiations with the Province, which includes conversations about long term capital funding needs (parhaps something like extending the MSI program permanently or letting the City keep all property taxes for its capital purposes). It's important that this plan is on the table, so that they understand clearly what the City's needs are.

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Wooster

Part of the purpose of the plan is to try and attract funding. If other levels of government do not have a clear idea of what the City's vision, it is hard for them to support funding it, particularly at this magnitude. See what happened with TransitCity in Toronto, it was able to attract billions of dollars in funding committments.

The City is also in City Charter negotiations with the Province, which includes conversations about long term capital funding needs (parhaps something like extending the MSI program permanently or letting the City keep all property taxes for its capital purposes). It's important that this plan is on the table, so that they understand clearly what the City's needs are.

I think it's a good goal to set for the medium term. By no means is this all the investment Calgary will ever need, nor would Calgary slip into hell if it didn't play out that way. 13 B by 2040 is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 500 million/year to sustain with kind of development beyond 2040. I'm aware that we can mortgage this over the next half century, but there will be other things we'll need then too.

Who should pay for it? $500/year from every man, woman, and child for 25 years? Half that much for 50 years? Half from the province? All from the province?

I am 100% behind the plan, but I can't see it happening without a new tax at some or multiple levels. Yes, it will be cheaper in the long run than building roads and everyone buying cars, but we inevitably will have to commit more of our wealth to social infrastructure. Plebiscite? Sales tax? more gas tax? Increased resource royalties? More government income tax? Alberta has the lowest taxes in the country, and I think we can afford to invest more without totally losing our competitive edge.

[mellbell416]

If we could indeed make all its goals happen, that would be awesome! I completely agree with the vision of moving away from the radial model where all routes must go through downtown and towards one where it is more of a grid. I would imagine that it would help the downtown congestion and help those who aren't always ferrying to and from DT. For an oil town, Calgary is surprisingly progressive, and this plan would help make for a healthier city overall - less cars, more people getting some form of exercise (even walking to and from the bus/LRT can make a big difference) and a less crowded transportation infrastructure.

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by RyLucky

I think it's a good goal to set for the medium term. By no means is this all the investment Calgary will ever need, nor would Calgary slip into hell if it didn't play out that way. 13 B by 2040 is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 500 million/year to sustain with kind of development beyond 2040. I'm aware that we can mortgage this over the next half century, but there will be other things we'll need then too.

Who should pay for it? $500/year from every man, woman, and child for 25 years? Half that much for 50 years? Half from the province? All from the province?

I am 100% behind the plan, but I can't see it happening without a new tax at some or multiple levels. Yes, it will be cheaper in the long run than building roads and everyone buying cars, but we inevitably will have to commit more of our wealth to social infrastructure. Plebiscite? Sales tax? more gas tax? Increased resource royalties? More government income tax? Alberta has the lowest taxes in the country, and I think we can afford to invest more without totally losing our competitive edge.

All extremely good questions. I think it'll probably have to be all three levels of government participating for the long term in some form or another. It's not just Calgary obviously that faces this, it's every big city in Canada.

[freeweed]

Sunalta station - is that one HUGE escalator to get you up there? It has to be the tallest escalator in the city if so. I'd hate to be there on the days when the damn thing stops due to kids fooling around.

[frinkprof]

^There's a mezzanine level. 2 sets of escalators.