CFL in Ottawa: Ottawa RedBlacks

[Kitchissippi]

Funny how we went through this discussion exactly three years ago: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/arch.../t-175924.html

I went into OSEG's website and plugged in my suggestions from back then. For the CFL, I think Raftsmen is good, it captures the meaning of the original Rough (water) Riders, starts with an 'R", and could be stereotypically pictured wearing red, black and white plaid. It's also a term used in French, as in one of the few truly Ottawan folk songs "Laissez passer les Raftsmen (Bing sur la ring, bing bang!)" (They even play that song as far down as Tennessee



For the NASL, I put in Sappers, after the Royal Sappers and Miners who were instrumental in building the canal which is right beside the stadium. Their uniforms were also red black and white.

[eemy]

And everyone could wear red plaid shirts to the game. I like it!

[J.OT13]

Raftsmen, hands down.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by matty14

That would never fly, the francos would cause a sh*tstorm.

Are you suggesting that francophones are offended by the ceremonial uniforms of the RCMP and the Governor General's Foot Guards, which are direct descendants of the original Red Coats?

I guess I am not sufficiently culturally sensitive, but I was always under the impression that the term 'Red Coat' was negative to Americans rather than francophones.

[McC]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are you suggesting that francophones are offended by the ceremonial uniforms of the RCMP and the Governor General's Foot Guards, which are direct descendants of the original Red Coats?

I guess I am not sufficiently culturally sensitive, but I was always under the impression that the term 'Red Coat' was negative to Americans rather than francophones.

I don't think they'd be any more offensive than matty14's post.

[GORDBO]

Whatever there going to be called, as a bomber fan, I look forward to seeing Ottawa
finnaly getting back in the loop where they belong! Also hope cities like Halifax and Kelowna
get teams in the near future. [had to say Kelowna, as it is my hometown]

[McC]

Quebec City

[Postmaster]

I really don't think Red Coats would offend any francophones here. I don't think it's the best name mind you. I'm starting to like Raftsmen more and more. It represents a lot of what this city was built on.

[matty14]

Originally Posted by McC

I don't think they'd be any more offensive than matty14's post.

What I meant by "francos" was the hyper-sensitive militant language/culture police that insist on foisting everything French upon all of us, not the average French-Canadian citizen, who are a vital part of our culture.

Anyways, I apologize for the improper use of that word, and before this thread descends in to political chaos I'll keep it on track by voicing my support for Raftsmen. Really evocative of the timber trade which was vitally important to the area around the time of our founding fathers. The only problem I might see with "Raftsmen" is, is that not a nickname for the Argonauts? I know "Boatmen" is but I feel like I've heard Raftsmen before too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by McC

Quebec City

Yes, the ceremonial guards at the Citadelle in Quebec City are from the Royal 22e Régiment and wear red coats and bearskin hats.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by matty14

What I meant by "francos" was the hyper-sensitive militant language/culture police that insist on foisting everything French upon all of us, not the average French-Canadian citizen, who are a vital part of our culture.

.

Hmm. Not likely to make up a significant portion of the target market for an Ottawa CFL club.

[McC]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, the ceremonial guards at the Citadelle in Quebec City are from the Royal 22e Régiment and wear red coats and bearskin hats.

Oh, I meant Quebec City in reply to GORDBO's post about cities that should have CFL teams. I think previous iterations of the CFL in Ottawa would envy the attendance at Rouge et Or games, and that a QC team would be a good addition to the League.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by McC

Oh, I meant Quebec City in reply to GORDBO's post about cities that should have CFL teams. I think previous iterations of the CFL in Ottawa would envy the attendance at Rouge et Or games, and that a QC team would be a good addition to the League.

Ottawa fans would envy the success the Rouge et Or have had as well. Laval has seven championships in their first 17 seasons. The Riders and Renegades did not having a winning record after 1979.

Winning may not be everything in selling pro sports, but it sure does help.

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by matty14

The only problem I might see with "Raftsmen" is, is that not a nickname for the Argonauts? I know "Boatmen" is but I feel like I've heard Raftsmen before too.

I don't recall ever hearing them referred to as the Raftsmen. But I don't know that we would want to have a team name that similar (in word or theme) to the Toronto team anyways. If Toronto sports fans aren't arrogant enough, to have them think we are copying the name will make some of them intolerable.

[eemy]

I like the idea of Raftsmen more every time I read it. I think any link that could be made to the Argonauts is pretty tenuous. It's also a pretty unique name as far as team names go.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I like the idea of Raftsmen more every time I read it. I think any link that could be made to the Argonauts is pretty tenuous. It's also a pretty unique name as far as team names go.

Agreed. Many leagues have multiple bird names, or multiple feline names...

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

I like the idea of Raftsmen more every time I read it. I think any link that could be made to the Argonauts is pretty tenuous. It's also a pretty unique name as far as team names go.

Not only it's unique but it also has both historical and social relevance on both sides of the Ottawa River and up the Gatineau River.

So much so that Hull (aka Gatineau) had a popular Raftsmen festival some 50 years ago.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...pg=5280,357461
(note the ad for Minto Homes in Beacon Hills !)

In those days there was also a popular tavern + entertainment + restaurant called Les Raftsmen on St.Joseph Blvd that was the "in" place to be on any weekend night and all the days in between. It still exist, albeit now more of a restaurant. That place and its name has history that is concurrent to the Rough Riders days.

Fan loyalty is much more about feelings that winning games. Fans are loyal if they can relate to a sport, a team, players or a name. That's something that money can't buy.

The Renegades tried to promote themselves across the river but who would care for a team with a name that sounds like Gatorade? Considering that Gatineau and Orléans has 25% of the regional population and potentially 25% of the fan base, Jeff Hunt and company would be foolish to pass up on a name that the entire region, eastern Ontario, the Ottawa Valley and western Québec can identifiy itself with.

"Red Coats" is a no-go. It would be translated to "Les Rouges" in french and that's an inference to the Liberal Party from way back when they were anti-establishment Reformers. Catholic bishops used to preach "l'enfer est rouge, le ciel est bleu" when referring to Liberals and Conservatives.

As far for the soccer team, I think that "Algonquins" would be a good name. We have Algonquin College, there is an Algonquin Park, an Algonquin Brewery and eastern Ontario is former Algonquin land.

Soccer fans are of the multi-ethnic kind. They come from all over the world. In fact, the game is called football all over the world except in the US and Canada. A soccer team's name should then be of a kind that avoids a WASPish or even a Causasian European inference. Using the name of a First Nation would be more acceptable to say, people with an asian, hispanic or middle-eastern background.

[AuxTown]

I suspect the NASL team will end up being called the Fury. The developmental and women's semi-pro programs are well-established. The youth teams could act as a feeder for the pros.

Raftsmen is not bad. I used to enjoy going to the bar in Gatineau when I was under-age. I would go there if the casino rejected me .

Oh, I meant Quebec City in reply to GORDBO's post about cities that should have CFL teams. I think previous iterations of the CFL in Ottawa would envy the attendance at Rouge et Or games, and that a QC team would be a good addition to the League.

This comment frustrates me. Ottawa CFL franchises have enjoyed average or above-average attendance every year except for the two years where the team was known to be folding at the end of the season. You can't blame fans for not coming when we already had word that our team was leaving town. We never lost our teams due to poor fan support but due to bad foreign ownership. The Rouge et Or stadium seats under 13000 and they did not sell out every game this year. In comparison, here are the Ottawa CFL franchises' attendance (years in which the team was known to be folding in italics) starting in 1990:

1990- 23647
1991- 23479
1992- 24345
1993- 20026
1994- 19409
1995- 21101
1996- 16847
2002- 23776
2003- 23378
2004- 23050
2005- 18489

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

I suspect the NASL team will end up being called the Fury. The developmental and women's semi-pro programs are well-established. The youth teams could act as a feeder for the pros.

Raftsmen is not bad. I used to enjoy going to the bar in Gatineau when I was under-age. I would go there if the casino rejected me .



This comment frustrates me. Ottawa CFL franchises have enjoyed average or above-average attendance every year except for the two years where the team was known to be folding at the end of the season. You can't blame fans for not coming when we already had word that our team was leaving town. We never lost our teams due to poor fan support but due to bad foreign ownership. The Rouge et Or stadium seats under 13000 and they did not sell out every game this year. In comparison, here are the Ottawa CFL franchises' attendance (years in which the team was known to be folding in italics) starting in 1990:

1990- 23647
1991- 23479
1992- 24345
1993- 20026
1994- 19409
1995- 21101
1996- 16847
2002- 23776
2003- 23378
2004- 23050
2005- 18489

I'm not sure what your point is but you should consider that the Rouge et Or is a Université de Laval team. If you intend to compare attendance, you should compare Rouge et Or to the Gees Gees.

Québec City has a population a bit over half a million and 13,000 attending a university game is pretty good, I would think.
Ottawa has two main universities and Carleton no longer has a football team (for now) and there is a university also in Gatineau. So it's hard to compare.

However, your numbers for the last 8 to 10 years for CFL in Ottawa indicates an average of 23,000+ . With the Ottawa area having a population of 1.25 million or so, which is 2.5 times that of Q.C., we should now have an average attendance of 32,500.

Can we make it?

[Zach6668]

Yeah, it doesn't work like that. It's not linear.

I've never been to Quebec City, but I'd wager there are far fewer comparable/substitutable entities competing for your entertainment dollars than there are in Ottawa.