Metro Vancouver Bike & Pedestrian Discussion

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by st7860

There was a bike lane setup on rupert street between grandview highway and 22nd avenue a few years ago for those that didn't already know.

There's also a bike lane on 22nd. Apart from narrowing the [already] single-lane traffic, there's been no actual impact on cars. In fact, it's make parking safer as there's a barrier between moving traffic and parked cars.

I don't think it's fair to compare how many people travel on a given corridor when you're comparing bike lanes and cars. If that's the case, we wouldn't have ANY roads as the SkyTrain or any LRT carry FAR FAR FAR more people per square meter than a road ever could.

Rather, it's all about making transportation multi-modal and choice-friendly. It's easy to look at King George Highway and say it's underutilized because the SkyTrain carries many thousands more per hour.

The reality is that there are people who would never take transit. Just like there are people who would never ride a bike just like there are people who don't own a car.

[city-dweller]

[tybuilding]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

The reality is that there are people who would never take transit. Just like there are people who would never ride a bike just like there are people who don't own a car.

Yup, that is why people target the "interested but concerned" group which comprises of 60% of the population, which is a fair amount.

[WarrenC12]

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/artic...e-separate-accidents-last-night#Comments

Six people hit in the last 5 nights. Wow.

According to the comments, it must be their own fault... I guess everybody knows Vancouver has the safest, most skilled drivers in the world.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Six people hit in the last 5 nights. Wow.

According to the comments, it must be their own fault... I guess everybody knows Vancouver has the safest, most skilled drivers in the world.

It's been pretty bad out there, too much sorrow for what should be a much happier season.

But at least some of those accidents might have been prevented if the pedestrians were more vigilant. I'm absolutely not saying it's their fault - I'm just saying "he's to blame" is very poor solace if you've been killed or seriously injured. Please, folks, be careful out there. Act as if you're invisible and don't step out onto a road without constantly scanning all around you for threats.

[st7860]

At least drivers in Canada usually stop if they see you.

In an unnamed foreign country, drivers are known to not stop, and if they hit you but you're still alive, they back up, and run you over again to finish the job.

[djh]

Originally Posted by st7860

At least drivers in Canada usually stop if they see you.

In an unnamed foreign country, drivers are known to not stop, and if they hit you but you're still alive, they back up, and run you over again to finish the job.

That's such a useless comment. No facts, nothing to back up the statement. It's just idle gossip.

[st7860]

www.chinasmack.com

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's been pretty bad out there, too much sorrow for what should be a much happier season.

But at least some of those accidents might have been prevented if the pedestrians were more vigilant. I'm absolutely not saying it's their fault - I'm just saying "he's to blame" is very poor solace if you've been killed or seriously injured. Please, folks, be careful out there. Act as if you're invisible and don't step out onto a road without constantly scanning all around you for threats.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/BC/ID/2313040367/?sort=MostPopular

2 joggers in Surrey wearing reflective gear and headlamps are hit. Driver took off.

In fact, there's no evidence on this video that the driver even saw anything. No attempt to slow down, swerve. Totally disgusting.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

2 joggers in Surrey wearing reflective gear and headlamps are hit. Driver took off.

In fact, there's no evidence on this video that the driver even saw anything. No attempt to slow down, swerve. Totally disgusting.

Yes, I totally agree. I hope they nail the guy.

That's why you have to be so careful. I'm not defending the guy in any way, but it's easy for pedestrians to get hidden behind the windshield pillar of a driver making a left turn. I'm a driver AND I'm a pedestrian, and I know how easy it is while driving, especially on rainy nights like that one, to miss things unless you're very, very careful. So when I'm walking I never trust drivers to see me no matter what I'm wearing. Bright reflective clothing lowers your chances of getting hit, but it's not a magic deflector shield.

There's no way to know how many pedestrians in situations just like this have avoided severe injuries by the simple precaution of looking around. They're the fortunate ones, saved by their vigilance.

But at least at most of the accidents that do happen the driver stops to render assistance. By leaving the scene the driver has abandoned all claim to whatever understanding he might have been afforded for a lapse of attention that could happen to many of us. They guy's a scumbag, no doubt about it.

[sacrifice333]

^ And the amount of pedestrians wearing all-dark clothing that assume cars see them is truly scary. Also the number of cyclists without any reflective clothing, reflectors, nor lights is astonishing.

[WarrenC12]

From News1130's twitter:

Surrey RCMP have arrested a 53 y/o man in connection with a hit-and-run that sent two women to hospital. He'll appear in court May 13.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

^ And the amount of pedestrians wearing all-dark clothing that assume cars see them is truly scary. Also the number of cyclists without any reflective clothing, reflectors, nor lights is astonishing.

It doesn't help that its pretty difficult to find a "fashionable" jacket or coat that isn't black or dark gray. Given that they're based here, why doesn't Lululemon come out with a line of nice outerwear and has some reflective element to it?

[biketrouble]

Funny we should be getting the usual comments about what pedestrians should be wearing in response to a story about two people *wearing reflective clothing* getting hit.

If you watch the video, you can see that in this case reflective gear is fairly ineffective because when a car is turning left into an intersection, their lights won't be shining onto the pedestrians in the crosswalk until the car is practically on top of them. What's to reflect?

However we still expect people to be able to use crosswalks and cars to be able to turn left, so a solution needs to be found.

It appears that the preferred solution proposed by many drivers (make pedestrians more visible) is not as effective as anyone would like. Perhaps that means it is time for the solution proposed by many pedestrians (cars should slow the *?&! down) to be given a chance?

[officedweller]

One major problem at intersections is bright headlights from oncoming vehicles.
If they brightened streetlights over the intersection and its crosswalks, that would help with visibility.

i.e. For a car waiting (stopped) to turn left, a passing oncoming car (SUV) with bright headlights can cause momentary blindness to the driver turning left, so even if the car turning left does so relatively slowly, a pedestrian may not be visble enough to register.

If you're not a driver, you may not know about such instances. So, while it may be fine and well to say "I have right of way", a more prudent approach is to act defensively (i.e. keep an eye out for what the cars are doing).

That's the same as driving defensively - you can't always expect the other person to act within the law or be predictable - how many time have you seen drivers make sudden illegal U-turns?

He/she could also be drunk - you need to account for those types of possibilities.

That's also why school children are taught to walk facing oncoming traffic if a road does not have a sidewalk
- so they are aware of what the cars are doing.

Likewise, you can't be oblivious to your surroundings when walking along a sidewalk either (i.e. tuning out with loud headphones) - you'll become a mugging target.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by djh

That's such a useless comment. No facts, nothing to back up the statement. It's just idle gossip.

Well I can vouch his comment is 100% true, and im not talking about China. Most places I have been to outside of north America and Europe have been like that, cars simply don't stop and assume the pedestrian will get out of their way. Not much different then not slamming on your breaks when you see a bunch of crows in the middle of the road, you assume their smart enough to get out of the way. If someone does get hit then "finishing the job" is more common then people who live here would think, out of anger at the stupidity of the person hit, or just to make sure no trouble comes their way (but obviously this is not something that happens all the time).

I say if your crossing a street you need to be responsible for your own safety and in most cases regardless of who is at fault, you can only blame your self if you get hit.

Originally Posted by biketrouble

Funny we should be getting the usual comments about what pedestrians should be wearing in response to a story about two people *wearing reflective clothing* getting hit.

If you watch the video, you can see that in this case reflective gear is fairly ineffective because when a car is turning left into an intersection, their lights won't be shining onto the pedestrians in the crosswalk until the car is practically on top of them. What's to reflect?

However we still expect people to be able to use crosswalks and cars to be able to turn left, so a solution needs to be found.

It appears that the preferred solution proposed by many drivers (make pedestrians more visible) is not as effective as anyone would like. Perhaps that means it is time for the solution proposed by many pedestrians (cars should slow the *?&! down) to be given a chance?

Normally when you cross a street you do it while being vigilant of the situation around you, that means seeing if a car is coming or if a driver sees you. If you can make eye contact, make eye contact, its no different then walking around in crowds, riding down a bike path, or drivers at 4 way stop signs. The drivers is a douche bag for leaving, and obviously the woman are not at fault, and I wont speculate on what they did or didn't do, but people need to be careful and vigilant at all times. Like the poster above said, how many people were in similar situations and due to being vigilant saw a car turning and not slowing down, and acted accordingly and saved their lives.

This does not apply to just pedestrians but with all aspects in life, I mean when someone sends 50 grand to some Nigerian in response to some email do you not lay some level of blame on the person sending the money?

Ultimately if we don't want to be hit by cars then we need to be vigilant when crossing streets with traffic.

*and remember I am in no way saying the woman were not vigilant, I don't know, I am speaking in broader terms.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by officedweller

One major problem at intersections is bright headlights from oncoming vehicles.
If they brightened streetlights over the intersection and its crosswalks, that would help with visibility.

i.e. For a car waiting (stopped) to turn left, a passing oncoming car (SUV) with bright headlights can cause momentary blindness to the driver turning left, so even if the car turning left does so relatively slowly, a pedestrian may not be visble enough to register.

If you're not a driver, you may not know about such instances. So, while it may be fine and well to say "I have right of way", a more prudent approach is to act defensively (i.e. keep an eye out for what the cars are doing).

That's the same as driving defensively - you can't always expect the other person to act within the law or be predictable - how many time have you seen drivers make sudden illegal U-turns?

He/she could also be drunk - you need to account for those types of possibilities.

That's also why school children are taught to walk facing oncoming traffic if a road does not have a sidewalk
- so they are aware of what the cars are doing.

Likewise, you can't be oblivious to your surroundings when walking along a sidewalk either (i.e. tuning out with loud headphones) - you'll become a mugging target.

Maybe one day we can set up glow in the dark crosswalks or roadways like this http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/10/glowing-roads/?pid=2413. Expensive but for cross walks could be viable. At night with a glowing sidewalk you would easily see any person crossing even in dark clothing as you would see their outline against the glowing road.
Pretty cool actually.

[memememe76]

I can understand why some people have such hatred for bicyclists--a lot of people don't ride bikes, ever. But I am puzzled at all the "Blame the Pedestrians" nonsense. It's as if they have never ever crossed a street on foot before. Surely, they have to walk from their parked car to the front of the Walmart entrance, right?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I can understand why some people have such hatred for bicyclists--a lot of people don't ride bikes, ever. But I am puzzled at all the "Blame the Pedestrians" nonsense. It's as if they have never ever crossed a street on foot before. Surely, they have to walk from their parked car to the front of the Walmart entrance, right?

Are you talking about posts in this thread? Because nobody here is blaming the pedestrians. We're just saying that you should learn from this regrettable incident and not let it happen to you.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Are you talking about posts in this thread? Because nobody here is blaming the pedestrians. We're just saying that you should learn from this regrettable incident and not let it happen to you.

Absolutely. The pedestrians did nothing wrong in this case, and for the driver to take off is inexcusable. Looking at the video you can see there's a bit of a "dark spot" on the crosswalk where they were struck, so better overhead lighting might have helped. You've got a middle aged driver, in dark wet conditions, obviously paying more attention to what's coming at him than what's happening on the x-walk. Also, being in the burbs it seems drivers are less conditioned to expect foot traffic. However, for memememe76 to suggest that pedestrians shouldn't take care with reflectivity of clothing is silly. It might not have made a difference in this case, but it makes a difference in others.

As an aside, the video is a great rebuttal to the David Eby's of the world who shriek about CCTV. They may not stop crime, but they sure as hell help track down the guilty!