Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[Berklon]

The CFL is doing well in Canada... great.

So there shouldn't be a problem if Toronto were to try to get an NFL team, right? I mean no-one should try and block it from happening to protect the CFL - because it's doing so well and it can compete with the NFL for viewers. Competition is a beautiful thing.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

There are no published Toronto-specific, regular-season numbers for either the CFL or the NFL.

For what it is worth, however, here are the most recent national, regular-season numbers for the CFL versus the NFL and NBA. You can draw your own conclusions:


OCTOBER 26 - OCTOBER 31

CFL

TOR-SSK, Oct 27, TSN: 1.026 million
BC-CGY, Oct 26, TSN: 701, 000
WPG-HAM, Oct 28, TSN: 672, 000
EDM-MTL, Oct 28, TSN: 546, 000

NFL

NO-DEN, Oct 28, TSN: 339, 000
SF-ARZ, Oct 29, TSN: 396, 000

NBA (Season Opener)

IND-TOR, Oct 31, TSN: 346, 000

All numbers are BBM Canada 2+

Source


NOVEMBER 1 - NOVEMBER 6

CFL

HAM-TOR, Nov 1, TSN: 769, 000
CGY-EDM, Nov 2, TSN: 725, 000
MTL-WPG, Nov 2, TSN: 642, 000
SSK-BC, Nov 3, TSN: 828, 000

NFL

KC-SD, Nov 1, SN: 213, 000
DAL-ATL, Nov 4, TSN: 577, 000
PHI-NO, Nov 5, TSN: 580, 000

NBA

TOR-BRK, Nov 3 SN: 185, 000
TOR-OKC, Nov 6, TSN: 91, 000

All numbers BBM Canada 2+

Source

Those NFL ratings are fantastic because you have to take into account that there are multiple games going on at the same time and these are teams from ANOTHER COUNTRY which Canadians are following. It's not like they're watching their local team. You can imagine what the ratings would be like if Toronto had their own NFL team. It would be quite large.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Those NFL ratings are fantastic because you have to take into account that there are multiple games going on at the same time and these are teams from ANOTHER COUNTRY which Canadians are following. It's not like they're watching their local team. You can imagine what the ratings would be like if Toronto had their own NFL team. It would be quite large.

If toronto can find someone willing to part with 2 billion ( team and 70,000 seat stadium) then fill your boots!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Oh BS...

Montreal has had the Alouettes fold, had multiple junior hockey teams fold, and yet Toronto gets the reputation of being a bad sports city? What a load of bull.

The GTA and immediately outside it supports an NHL team, 2 AHL teams, an MLB team, MLS team, 2 CFL teams, NLL team, 3 OHL teams and the largest minor hockey league in the world. And the fact that their oldest professional football franchise in the world and oldest professional sports franchise to retain the same name, that has been absolutely terrible for half a decade, gets "only" 23,000+ people means it's a "Toronto thing"? Name one other Canadian city that supports that many sports teams and leagues.

Get that crap out of here and don't talk about things you don't understand.

Yeah, I think it is a bit unfair to categorize Toronto as a bad sports town. I think a lot people wish (or THINK that) Toronto be more interested in Canadian sports - like the CFL in particular. Probably the biggest criticism.

While it is true that Torontonians do put their money where their mouth is and buy tickets to a lot of stuff, there is also a perception in other parts of Canada that they have a preference for "shiny objects" from stateside (think NFL) over more authentic and homegrown stuff like the Grey Cup.

As well, people don't understand or are somewhat critical when the talk out of Toronto (from a lot of people anyway) is not just about preferring the NFL, but actually being anti-CFL and almost/seemingly wanting to kill it. As if the CFL was the only thing preventing TO from hitting the big time and getting an NFL team.

I mean, it's not like people in Saskatchewan don't watch the NFL. Most Rider fans probably do. It's just that they don't completely write off the CFL simply because they like the NFL too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yeah, I think it is a bit unfair to categorize Toronto as a bad sports town. I think a lot people wish (or THINK that) Toronto be more interested in Canadian sports - like the CFL in particular. Probably the biggest criticism.

While it is true that Torontonians do put their money where their mouth is and buy tickets to a lot of stuff, there is also a perception in other parts of Canada that they have a preference for "shiny objects" from stateside (think NFL) over more authentic and homegrown stuff like the Grey Cup.

As well, people don't understand or are somewhat critical when the talk out of Toronto (from a lot of people anyway) is not just about preferring the NFL, but actually being anti-CFL and almost/seemingly wanting to kill it. As if the CFL was the only thing preventing TO from hitting the big time and getting an NFL team.

I mean, it's not like people in Saskatchewan don't watch the NFL. Most Rider fans probably do. It's just that they don't completely write off the CFL simply because they like the NFL too.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that people in Quebec used to be like this as well - going out of their way to ignore and hate the CFL.

Then they snapped out of it about 10 or 20 years ago.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by osmo

I am glad I am not the only one whom noticed this. TSN did a No Frills telecast of the game and it was bloody obvious. They knew people would watch and the CFL produced the heavy parts of the telecast (halftime). The on-air talent is great - TSN's football on-air is top-notch and IMO way better then the musical chair act they have with Hockey. I don't like that blonde sideline reporter at all, but Farhan Lalji is always great at doing his job. TSN needed help in the behind the scenes production of it all I must say as the he game itself appeared to be low-budget and annoying to watch at times.

The top tier of Sports presentations in the Country are IMO: The Olympics, Memorial Cup, World Juniors, and NHL Playoff Hockey (FIFA produces the World Cup 100% in house, all CBC has to do is build a set and fly some people over). You watch any of those broadcasts regardless of the network and you see what Canadian Sports television is capable of when the aren't being stingy and cheap.

They Grey Cup on Sunday was nearly as bad as a Raptors Telecast - Dis-jointed and cheap. But this has been the norm of TSN with Grey Cups, the salvation is that we have been treated to quality games on the field that masked TSN's cheapness and poor quality with their telecasts.

I compare all TSN produced stuff to their Hockey they throw the kitchen sink at the Hockey and produce top quality stuff.. They throw a lot of Cameras at the games, have smooth transitions, good sound, and they throw in money for the glamour and fluff shuts from in the game and around the host City.

Canadian Television can get away with it. Big events will attract viewers and dollars for Advertisements regardless. In America you have to have a package to attract both as there is just way more stuff (sports or not) for Advertisers to toss money at. ESPN even with no 'real' competitors has to produce quality stuff to squeeze as much AD revenue as possible.

I also was going to write a post about the TV coverage of the Grey Cup and forgot about it. I totally agree.

What was most disappointing is that TSN has really stepped up its coverage of the CFL in recent years and it generally looks really good. For regular season coverage anyway.

But I would have expected them to step it up a notch like most networks do for important events like championships, but they did not and it looked basically like an average regular season game.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I also was going to write a post about the TV coverage of the Grey Cup and forgot about it. I totally agree.

What was most disappointing is that TSN has really stepped up its coverage of the CFL in recent years and it generally looks really good. For regular season coverage anyway.

But I would have expected them to step it up a notch like most networks do for important events like championships, but they did not and it looked basically like an average regular season game.

This is why the CFL has to get other networks on their broadcast schedule, monopolies breeds incompetence, competition breeds excellence.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Update on the Pan Am games facilities

Organizers for the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games says they’re on budget and have five venue projects under construction.

TO2015 has released its first quarterly report to the public, saying it remains on track with its $1.44-billion budget.

Out of a total of $674-million slated for capital projects, the committee says it’s currently $57.5-million under budget.

That figure takes into account the Milton Velodrome that is projected to come in $6-million more than planned.

But the organizers say financial contingencies are built into each budget and the risk of cost increases have been shifted to private sector contractors.

Five construction projects are currently underway – including Toronto’s athletics stadium, aquatics centre and fieldhouse – with four other venue projects expected to start over the next two years.

“This means we’re in excellent shape moving forward with financial cushion that bodes well for any future flexibility we need,” CEO Ian Troop said in a conference call Monday.

“It also means that we’re on time to be able to have our venues ready for test events in 2014.”

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Berklon

The CFL is doing well in Canada... great.

So there shouldn't be a problem if Toronto were to try to get an NFL team, right? I mean no-one should try and block it from happening to protect the CFL - because it's doing so well and it can compete with the NFL for viewers. Competition is a beautiful thing.

The problem lies in that sponsorship and media contracts are now the lifeblood of leagues (and the CFL is making progress here), but the NFL would basically rip all Toronto/National corporate CFL sponsorship away because they would want to be involved with the richer, more glamorous league. We already have some companies doing that. Nestlé always has "proud sponsor of the NFL" on their packaging. Why should I care if they sponsor a foreign league? I don't think they'd put proud sponsor of the English Premiership on French packaging, yet it's completely acceptable here. They are starting to throw a few CFL things around, but the amount of NFL advertising by companies (not the NFL itself) in Canada compared to the amount of CFL advertising is pathetic, especially considering viewership numbers.

And all media in Canada already treats the NFL with reverence, while some go out of the way to try and search for anything terrible to write about the CFL (Rogers media especially). It's come back a long way, but being that southern Ontario is by far the weakest market, and that's where media is concentrated, an NFL team moving in would basically kill all progress the CFL has made with media outlets and corporate partners.

The CFL is definitely in a better spot than the mid-90s, but it's still not solid. You have eastern Canadian teams looking to downsize their stadiums while western are expanding. That alone should tell you something. I don't see why we have to be involved in every American League. If the CFL ever folded (and without Braley and Young it probably would have) we would become basically the only country in the world without some sort of professional national league. How pathetic would that look for the viability of our culture/identity; that a rich country like Canada can't actually support it's own league? We've already basically lost control of the Stanley Cup to Americans even though it was a gift to Canadians...


Yes, competition is a beautiful thing... Except when you have one one behemoth with billions upon billions of dollars going up against an entity with low millions. Same thing that's wrong with the American political system now. The regular person doesn't have a voice/say because the super rich basically buy politicians. You almost have a monopolistic situation if you consider the money, and that's not competition.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

If toronto can find someone willing to part with 2 billion ( team and 70,000 seat stadium) then fill your boots!

Person is the important word here. If I remember the ownership rules correctly, only an individual may own a team (MLSE is SOL) and said owner may not also own a team in another league (any part owner in MLSE would have to sell off all ties to the Leafs group).

Only then could said person put up over $2 billion to buy and franchise and build a stadium. Although he'd be in competition with American billionaires who would want to keep the franchise in 'Merica (most notably LA).

[isaidso]

Toronto doesn't need a $2 billion stadium, it needs something like Investors Field. The Argonauts haven't had a football specific stadium since they played at Varsity Stadium. Build it at around 35,000 seats and build it downtown. Any summer Olympic bid stadium should be designed so it can be downsized after to a 35,000 seater and no athletics track.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

I know it’s a long way out there – but surely a proposed Olympic Stadium (given that Toronto would be interested in submitting a bid for 2024) would function as NFL stadium - not that I see an NFL team ever relocating to Toronto

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Those NFL ratings are fantastic because you have to take into account that there are multiple games going on at the same time and these are teams from ANOTHER COUNTRY which Canadians are following. It's not like they're watching their local team. You can imagine what the ratings would be like if Toronto had their own NFL team. It would be quite large.

Exactly, these are teams from ANOTHER COUNTRY. How about paying attention to your own country for a change.

The CFL helps unite Canada like nothing else yet you want to further alienate Toronto culturally from the rest of Canada. You obviously have zero interest in building/supporting this country's football league, but do you really need to damage the Argonauts just to get your own fix? Jeesh, go to Buffalo. The Argonauts are the oldest pro sports team in north America. It should be a source of pride, not discarded into the gutter.

The CFL and Grey Cup are national institutions and Toronto needs to be brought back into the fold, not turned into some enclave foreign to the ROC.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

I know it’s a long way out there – but surely a proposed Olympic Stadium (given that Toronto would be interested in submitting a bid for 2024) would function as NFL stadium - not that I see an NFL team ever relocating to Toronto

They have to compete with Chicago and New York. Also, you will have a hard time convincing tax payers to let a similar situation as the Rogers Centre happen all over again. So unless the owner wants to pay off the stadium, a smaller stadium with extensions that can be removed (a la Sydney's Olympic stadium) will be built, which in the end would be too small for an NFL team.

Or you would have the issue of the stadium being built with a track and need a serious reconstruction project to remove it and change the setup (assuming its built with enough capacity) as I don't think the NFL would go for a stadium with a track.

It's possible, but there are definitely a few things holding back a Toronto NFL team.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As well, people don't understand or are somewhat critical when the talk out of Toronto (from a lot of people anyway) is not just about preferring the NFL, but actually being anti-CFL and almost/seemingly wanting to kill it. As if the CFL was the only thing preventing TO from hitting the big time and getting an NFL team.

These people are the Patrick Bateman types who consider themselves "above" the CFL because the NFL is more of a hype, and think that bashing the CFL will make them accepted by others like that. To them being anti-CFL is "cool".

Whatever, they can move to Buffalo for all I care. NFL is boring and overrated anyway.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by The_Architect

These people are the Patrick Bateman types who consider themselves "above" the CFL because the NFL is more of a hype, and think that bashing the CFL will make them accepted by others like that. To them being anti-CFL is "cool".

Whatever, they can move to Buffalo for all I care. NFL is boring and overrated anyway.

I and others know that not all Torontonians are like this. But this gang sure makes a lot of noise, and seems to control a lot of media power.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I and others know that not all Torontonians are like this. But this gang sure makes a lot of noise, and seems to control a lot of media power.

The NFL crowd are usually condescending, disrespectful/ignorant of Canadian culture, and do make a lot of noise. Some want the CFL to fail just so they can get an NFL team.

Can you imagine what type of person want 100 years of Canadian history to go belly up and millions of fans to go without just so they can bring in a foreign product they can easily access 2 hours down the highway. It's beyond selfish.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

I know it’s a long way out there – but surely a proposed Olympic Stadium (given that Toronto would be interested in submitting a bid for 2024) would function as NFL stadium - not that I see an NFL team ever relocating to Toronto

Any Toronto Olympic Stadium will have to cater to the needs of Toronto's current football team (the Argonauts), not some hypothetical team from some foreign league that might come here one day. That means down sizing to 35,000 permanent seats and no track (nothing larger). There is no way in hell that tax payer money will go towards a stadium to house an NFL team when the local football team needs its own stadium.

Not going to happen. It's a non starter right out of the gate.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

I agree - a 35,000 seat stadium for the Argo's is much needed - but where?

Edit: something like this - this has 40,000

[Prometheus]

The Argos really missed the boat when BMO Field was being planned and they opted out, resulting in a smaller stadium which can now accommodate soccer only. A colossal mistake.