General Updates and News

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Empire

Halifax November sunset:

All photos by Empire - pls excuse the blur

Thank you Empire. Halifax really looks like a boom town with all the cranes. Very impressive.

[someone123]

Nice photos. Eventually we might see 5 cranes around the north end of downtown: 3 for the Citadel Hotel, the Waterside Centre (which hopefully will stay up long enough), and TD (which will have to be taller than the others).

[spaustin]

Strange given the work that went into it, but apparently the Downtown Chickenburger is coming down already to make way for new development. It's a rather unremarkable old house that has no context left because everything around it was demolished so I don't think it's a big loss. It could tie into the Sisters redevelopment. I would, however, be really disappointed to see the Mills building go. There's good history there... Then again, a lot of it was wiped out in the reno and the building really looks like a garish mishmash now so I don't know. I'm torn.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/11/23/ns-chickenburger-closing-downtown.html

[fenwick16]

It is good to see that Spring Garden Road has become such a magnet for development. It will be interesting to see who the developer is and whether they have acquired any additional properties on that half of the "Sisters" block. Here is a Bing Maps link for out-of-towners - http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=rf6ds39...ax%2C%20NS%20B3J%2C%20Canada&form=LMLTCC

[kph06]

Construction on the new building to replace the building lost in the New Years Eve fire last year has started, looks as though there will be a crane here soon too. Photo by me:

[Empire]

Originally Posted by spaustin

Strange given the work that went into it, but apparently the Downtown Chickenburger is coming down already to make way for new development. It's a rather unremarkable old house that has no context left because everything around it was demolished so I don't think it's a big loss. It could tie into the Sisters redevelopment. I would, however, be really disappointed to see the Mills building go. There's good history there... Then again, a lot of it was wiped out in the reno and the building really looks like a garish mishmash now so I don't know. I'm torn.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2012/11/23/ns-chickenburger-closing-downtown.html

Part of what makes Spring Garden attractive are shops like Mills....or what Mills used to be. The reno has ruined the look & intent of the building and to have the street lined with Park Lanes & City Centre Atlantics deminishes the character.

So Mickey MacDonald has done 2 expensive renos in the Spring Garden Rd. area and is demolishing them both. I hope he is only financing this new venture and not making any real decisions.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Empire

Part of what makes Spring Garden attractive are shops like Mills....or what Mills used to be. The reno has ruined the look & intent of the building and to have the street lined with Park Lanes & City Centre Atlantics deminishes the character.

So Mickey MacDonald has done 2 expensive renos in the Spring Garden Rd. area and is demolishing them both. I hope he is only financing this new venture and not making any real decisions.

Indeed. The cheap-looking quality of the Mills reno doesn't bode well for whatever McDonald plans to replace it with. If this goes through, and if Danny Chedrawe ever moves forward with his plan to demolish the excellent block of SGR between Queen and Brunswick, the whole character of the strip will be seriously diminished. All these buildings are in decent shape and well-scaled to the street--certain developers really need to jump on the adaptive-reuse bandwagon. Blockbusting and mediocre reconstruction is no way to build the neighbourhood.

[rajoclock]

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.

[someone123]

It is a complicated issue. It is normal to expect areas to get more chain stores and modern buildings as the city grows and rents rise in prime districts. If Halifax gets new areas that function the way Spring Garden Road used to then the city could be much better off on balance. I'd like to see the Fenwick area, Spring Garden near Robie, Gottingen, and Agricola become successful retail areas. We haven't seen much evolution of these neighbourhoods in the past because there hasn't been enough planning direction and infill in the inner city, but I think that is changing.

I don't think we can necessarily predict what the new buildings on Spring Garden will look like by pointing to older buildings like Park Lane. The quality of urban design has gone up a lot lately and seems to be driven by HbD and local architects more than particular developers. It is not that far-fetched to imagine new buildings that are better than the Chickenburger house or Mills.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by rajoclock

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.

That is an interesting distortion that I had never noticed before. It seems to be one certain angle and within a few zoom levels.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is a complicated issue. It is normal to expect areas to get more chain stores and modern buildings as the city grows and rents rise in prime districts. If Halifax gets new areas that function the way Spring Garden Road used to then the city could be much better off on balance. I'd like to see the Fenwick area, Spring Garden near Robie, Gottingen, and Agricola become successful retail areas. We haven't seen much evolution of these neighbourhoods in the past because there hasn't been enough planning direction and infill in the inner city, but I think that is changing.

I don't think we can necessarily predict what the new buildings on Spring Garden will look like by pointing to older buildings like Park Lane. The quality of urban design has gone up a lot lately and seems to be driven by HbD and local architects more than particular developers. It is not that far-fetched to imagine new buildings that are better than the Chickenburger house or Mills.

It's not a matter of a new mediocre building being better than Mills or the Chickenburger. Of any street in Eastern Canada Spring Garden Rd. had the potential to be a bit like Sherbrooke St or St. Denis in Montreal. This is due to some smaller scale buildings with character. Ripping them down and building a Mickey MacDonald mall brings the big box to Spring Garden Rd. " Lost Opportunity"

Rue St. Denis, Montreal
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=st+denis+mo...=PR1vZuLDOFf4vMnj05UvNA&cbp=12,6.39,,0,0

Rue Sherbrooke, Montreal
http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=shopping+Sh...OZ3gYui7eUtnYb9PxmeSQ&cbp=12,335.27,,0,0

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Empire

Of any street in Eastern Canada Spring Garden Rd. had the potential to be a bit like Sherbrooke St or St. Denis in Montreal."

Good analogy--SGR is a smaller version of this sort of high-end retail street. Small enough that a few bad developments could screw it up real badly. (Honestly, I've got little faith that the Chedrawe plan, should it ever happen, will be worth the loss—the early renderings looked extremely unpromising, an 80s-ish glass mid-rise with poor street presence. If it ever gets proposed, I really hope community outcry kills it. But I bet the Heritage Trust are too busy worrying about blocking mid-rise infill on parking lots to even be aware of it...)

Anyway, as far as Chickenburger, I'm a bit confused as to what exactly is gonna be knocked down. Some media outlets said the Chickenburger building and another property on Birmingham. That makes it sound as if it'll be minimal demolition—perhaps a few houses. No big deal, especially if the replacement is good.

But the CBC story suggested that the land under redevelopment would also include the whole block's worth of buildings fronting SGR, which is crazy. It's a huge parcel of land to demolish, and has some of the best street frontage on the strip. Even with the poor renos, it's got a great Maritime-commercial feel, and the buildings are obviously in fine shape. Blockbusting of this kind is supposed to be passé in planning and development circles, right? Building behind and over them, embellishing what's already there, seems the obvious way to go.

[Nifta]

I saw today that HMV on sgr is closing down. Does anyone know if a new tenant is lined up, or will we have another empty building on spring garden?

[spaustin]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

But the CBC story suggested that the land under redevelopment would also include the whole block's worth of buildings fronting SGR, which is crazy. It's a huge parcel of land to demolish, and has some of the best street frontage on the strip. Even with the poor renos, it's got a great Maritime-commercial feel, and the buildings are obviously in fine shape. Blockbusting of this kind is supposed to be passé in planning and development circles, right? Building behind and over them, embellishing what's already there, seems the obvious way to go.

I suspect CBC has it right. Mills Brothers was recently sold and will be moving into Spring Garden Place. So the question is why sell and why would the new owners move out? Reading those tea leaves really suggests that the whole block could be coming down (don't know who owns the building that Starbucks is in). If it happens, it could really destroy Spring Garden. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's in store. If it's level and build new, it'll be a real challenge. Very few modern buildings are good at replicating fine-grain retail. They tend to lose the human scale and build one long uniform and boring expanse with a single large floor plate. It's not surprising because that's the easiest thing to build and is the easiest thing to get financing and tenants for. Everybody wants to lease to Shoppers Drug Mart. Commercial spots that are split up like what's at the base of the W Suites tend to be uncommon. Here's hoping that this won't be a disaster.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/146259-new-owners-eye-rejuvenated-mills

[worldlyhaligonian]

The Chickenburger would look terrible across from the new library and I'm happy about that development. The rest of it is really debatable... SGR will certainly lose alot of character. The sister sites will extend the retail south and that is a big gain for the area... its becoming more of a shopping district as opposed to just a street.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Originally Posted by rajoclock

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.

Pyongyang style!

[scooby074]

Originally Posted by rajoclock

Ah, yes. The ol' Fenwick Pyramid...well played, Bing...well played.

The Burj Al Halifax

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by scooby074

The Burj Al Halifax

More like the Halifax Sky City...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGrgAYC7f9M

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by spaustin

I suspect CBC has it right. Mills Brothers was recently sold and will be moving into Spring Garden Place. So the question is why sell and why would the new owners move out? Reading those tea leaves really suggests that the whole block could be coming down (don't know who owns the building that Starbucks is in). If it happens, it could really destroy Spring Garden. I guess we'll have to wait and see what's in store. If it's level and build new, it'll be a real challenge. Very few modern buildings are good at replicating fine-grain retail. They tend to lose the human scale and build one long uniform and boring expanse with a single large floor plate. It's not surprising because that's the easiest thing to build and is the easiest thing to get financing and tenants for. Everybody wants to lease to Shoppers Drug Mart. Commercial spots that are split up like what's at the base of the W Suites tend to be uncommon. Here's hoping that this won't be a disaster.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/business/146259-new-owners-eye-rejuvenated-mills

I do not think it will be a major loss. With the Mills store moving it is hypothetical as to what would replace it. Those storefronts never did much for me. I remember walking that route daily in the 80s and 90s on my way to work and in the winter those shop windows would be frosted over. Hardly attractive.

I do wonder about MacDonald though. Don't forget he also rebuilt and then quickly sold the Palookas gym on Gottingen St too. The Chickenburger project never made any sense to me and I never understood why he just didn't knock the thing down in the first place. And he has mismanaged Mills from day one and never seemed to figure out the kind of business it was or could be.

I should see what they want for the busty chrome-plated woman above the front doors.

[someone123]

I don't think Sherbrooke and St-Denis in Montreal are very similar to Spring Garden Road. Spring Garden Road is the only place in Halifax where you can find major retailers in storefronts. St-Denis is more of a neighbourhood commercial street; it has small stores and very few newer buildings. Many of them are stone, whereas the lower end Spring Garden buildings are wood and have been significantly altered in many cases. Sherbrooke is a mix of small commercial buildings and residential/hotel. It has some wonderful buildings but also some plain slab type buildings and parts of it have a tired appearance. I was back in Montreal a couple of months ago and I enjoyed my trip but I find the city has a very "retro" feel. It has not progressed as much as Vancouver has.

Given Spring Garden's rents, it makes sense that a lot of the old wooden buildings will be redeveloped. Spring Garden Road has some nice buildings (former Bank of Montreal, the Sport NS one, Lord Nelson) but it also has a lot of small buildings of little architectural value. I think Mills could easily be replaced by something much better. We already have small retail spaces in the W Suites and the Vic has a nicely broken up facade. This new development should be even better because it will be able to command higher rents.

Like I said, the smaller scale retail can move farther out to areas like Argicola. That's how it's worked in other growing cities, and that's how it worked in Halifax back when the urban core was still successful. There was a time for example when all the best retailers were on Granville, and Barrington was a mix of smaller shops and residences.