Halifax Stadium Discussion

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by W.Sobchak

"due to unforeseen seen 'Halifax-class' circumstances, Moncton has decided to stop hosting the doomed Uteck Bowl event. The failed event was Halifax's fault, so we blame Halifax, because Moncton wouldn't do something stupid like putting our Casino in the middle of nowhere" - or something to the nature of Halifax is stupid and we are the second coming so prepare.

Oh my!... I can laugh about my home town.

Casino New Brunswick is just like anything else in Moncton: de-centralised...sprawled...car-dependent...

The Irving media bubble won't publicise anything with the wording you've used. It will likely spin a narrative that the Uteck Bowl was costing the city more than hosting it was worth -- and that the 'bigger goal' on which to focus is the CFL.

[jslath]

Originally Posted by someone123

I suspect that it's easy to overestimate the number of people who will consistently travel hours to go to games. All else being equal it is preferable to have a larger regional population, especially for stuff like ads and merchandise, but for tickets sales the local population is dramatically more significant. In Regina the CFL ticket sales are something like 90% local, and the local population there is dwarfed by the regional population.

I could see a person living within a short drive of a game being on average 10 times or more more likely to attend than somebody living 2 hours away. In other words, when you calculate the size of a market for ticket sales by adding in people a couple counties over you should be multiplying those numbers by 0.1 or less.

The same thing is true for all sorts of regional infrastructure. People consistently overestimate the importance of planning to serve nearby towns and counties.

It is too bad that the SMU stadium has been so neglected during all this talk of a larger municipal stadium that might or might not happen.

I wonder why the stadium at Saint Mary's is neglected and off the table. Is Saint Mary's unwilling or unable to work with HRM to upgrade the stadium? Would Saint Mary's rather not have a stadium anymore? Is Saint Mary's trying to pass the buck to HRM?

[halifaxboyns]

I thought the SMU Stadium plan was to renovate as part of the campus master plan?

[someone123]

I thought the problem was that the existing SMU stadium doesn't have enough room for expansion.

[-Harlington-]

There's enough room for at least 11,000 seats because that's what they had at the last CFL game there even though it was temp seats but that could be permanent and depending on how serious and smart they are about it I'm sure they could fit 13 or 14 if they tried.

Still not big enough for CFL but its a start and good for the university team and football in general around here.

[q12]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I thought the SMU Stadium plan was to renovate as part of the campus master plan?

I heard on the radio this morning, that construction is expected to start in 2013.

[MonctonRad]

There are plans to renovate and expand the stadium at SMU. This will occur in three phases. with a final stadium capacity of about 12,000.

I found this out when my son was down there playing an exhibition football game between the NS provincial team and the NB provincial team.

EDIT:

It should be noted that this is 12,000 seats with no capacity for additional expansion

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by monctonrad

edit:

It should be noted that this is 12,000 seats with no capacity for additional expansion

Oh snap!!

[Antigonish]

Theres simply no space at SMU, they would have to tear down the tower (gym) and built something like a 2 or 3 tier stand. Only a measley endzone stands could be built due to The Gorsebrook and Vanier residence being so close to the field.

The 12,000 seat plan sounds interesting though, don't expect it to get filled too often. When I played there we were only getting 4-5k crowds and beating the likes of Laval and contesting for Vanier Cups.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by NISH89

Theres simply no space at SMU, they would have to tear down the tower (gym) and built something like a 2 or 3 tier stand. Only a measley endzone stands could be built due to The Gorsebrook and Vanier residence being so close to the field.

They built the unattractive Tower facility in the wrong location back in the '80s. It should have been on the opposite side of the arena. That would have allowed space for expansion of the stadium.

Having said that though, I always thought that the main grandstand had enough room to allow it to be expanded with a smart redesign. It is built into a large berm that doesn't have much of anything behind it as I recall.

The 12,000 seat plan sounds interesting though, don't expect it to get filled too often. When I played there we were only getting 4-5k crowds and beating the likes of Laval and contesting for Vanier Cups.

I imagine that playing in a large but empty stadium would not be a very good experience. Probably not a good idea to build a stadium too large for most of the events held there just to be able to handle the very rare large event. Better to design it in such a way that there is room for temporary seating to be installed.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

They built the unattractive Tower facility in the wrong location back in the '80s. It should have been on the opposite side of the arena. That would have allowed space for expansion of the stadium.

Having said that though, I always thought that the main grandstand had enough room to allow it to be expanded with a smart redesign. It is built into a large berm that doesn't have much of anything behind it as I recall.



I imagine that playing in a large but empty stadium would not be a very good experience. Probably not a good idea to build a stadium too large for most of the events held there just to be able to handle the very rare large event. Better to design it in such a way that there is room for temporary seating to be installed.

There is a lot of room where the current grandstand is. If this was ripped out and the stands started at the south end endzone and wraped around to the north end of the tower at two tiers high you could probably squeeze in 8,000 seats. The rest of the area would be open for temp stands. The jumbotron and clock could be on the roof of the lowrise.


http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=halifax&hl=...alifax,+Halifax+County,+Nova+Scotia&z=18

[fenwick16]

If only Dalhousie University, Saint Mary's University, the HRM and province could coordinate their efforts and build a stadium at the soon to be demolished Victoria General Hospital.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

If only Dalhousie University, Saint Mary's University, the HRM and province could coordinate their efforts and build a stadium at the soon to be demolished Victoria General Hospital.

That's my preferred choice as well. Dalhousie could move their club team to AUS football and they'd potentially be 3 teams playing at the same stadium.

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

If only Dalhousie University, Saint Mary's University, the HRM and province could coordinate their efforts and build a stadium at the soon to be demolished Victoria General Hospital.

I wouldn't bet on it being torn down any time in the next 5 years. That is certainly the plan (although even then the Dickson & Mackenzie will stay) but everything I see says that it won't be soon (new cyclotron installed in the past few years at a cost of millions, new PET facility at a cost of millions etc). I think it is at least 5 years out if not a bit more.

They have been saying and planning for a while now that the VG will come down (including the recent announcement referenced about the DG expansion), but there are just as many signs if not more indicating that it will be a while yet, given the millions they have put into new facilities in the Victoria and Centennial buildings.

[W.Sobchak]

Fenwick, the biggest hurdle to that happening, is Dalhousies athletic program. Wickwire field is all Dal is going to need for a long time until they start a varsity football team again, which is not on the horizon as far as Tom Travers is concerned. Dal soccer draws maybe a hundred people, as well Dalplex is perfect for their basketball programs, and with the new arena on its way Hockey is covered too. That and it would mean Dalhousie would have to work WITH Smu, that's just not gonna happen, because (and rightfully so) neither need eachother to attain their respective athletic goals.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

From a long term, growing football perspective, I think SMU's plans for a substantial upgrade to their stadium make a lot of sense. From a recruiting point of view the facility must make a poor impression on potential players. If SMU is going to become a national power again I would think this would be a huge help. If I walk in as an undecided high school player I'm not looking at 12,000 empty seats, I'm imagining the place full - whether that happens a lot or not.

I personally think a 25,000 seat, municipally owned stadium would be nice to have, but not a priority. However, judging by the sentiment in and around Halifax this is something many people would really like to see. Since the city found a budget of $60 million for a central library it wouldn't seem unreasonable to look at that or more for a facility that would benefit the entire region. Whether SMU builds a stadium with their cash for their purposes isn't really going to affect HRMs next moves, IMO. I actually think it might help - a revitalized and popular football program at SMU could build real momentum for a CFL franchise, which is the most likely major tenant for any municipal stadium.

I think Shannon Park is the best site from a location perspective, but the possibility of bringing in private development around the stadium is what makes it really exciting. Something like the Landsdowne Park development in Ottawa. If HRM can get Shannon Park from the feds they would not only have land for the stadium but could partially fund the construction costs with land sales and other deals with private developers.

If we are a total budget talking $80 - $100 million for a 25,000 seat facility I don't see that as being outrageous at all for a city of 400,000.

[c-way-dude]

Is Quebec City back in the running for a CFL expansion franchise, or is it being used to motivate Halifax or Moncton into building a stadium?
http://www.ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/state-league-quebec-city-being-seriously-considered-expansion-154630754.html

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

Is Quebec City back in the running for a CFL expansion franchise, or is it being used to motivate Halifax or Moncton into building a stadium.
http://www.ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/state-league-quebec-city-being-seriously-considered-expansion-154630754.html

As far as what I've gathered from Quebec media, the CFL isn't one of their top priorities, although a segment of their population is still pushing for this. There is, quite obviously, more attention being directed toward landing a NHL team because of their new arena.

HRM Mayor Mike Savage recently brought up his support for a stadium to journalists. Well see where this goes... We may have to wait until after the next provincial election to get some traction. The rest of Nova Scotia isn't doing well, and taxpayers aren't going to view a new stadium in Halifax (if part of its investment is with public funds) as an investment beyond just Halifax.

I don't think Moncton is at all serious about a CFL team. They would have to upgrade their small stadium -- and at the moment they're mostly focused on building a downtown events centre.

[halifaxboyns]

The CFL Commissioner was on the Lang and O'Leary exchange this evening talking about the Grey Cup and Kevin O'Leary brought up the issue of a stadium in Atlantic Canaad. Maybe we should ask him for money on Dragon's Den?

But the Commissioner had a good point - Halifax doesn't have a stadium, Quebec's isn't big enough and despite 2 games in Moncton, he said that most people came from roughly 80km away for the game (despite both games being packed). So he seemed cautious about an eastern team.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

HRM Mayor Mike Savage recently brought up his support for a stadium to journalists. Well see where this goes... We may have to wait until after the next provincial election to get some traction. The rest of Nova Scotia isn't doing well, and taxpayers aren't going to view a new stadium in Halifax (if part of its investment is with public funds) as an investment beyond just Halifax.

It would be interesting to see a poll taken outside Halifax. There might be more support outside HRM than people think. I think there is just as much provincial pride in Nova Scotia as anywhere in Canada. When the Halifax Metro Centre was built in Halifax back in the late 1970's, and I was living in Cape Breton, I didn't see any opposition from residents of Cape Breton. I even remember a Sydney-area talk show bringing up the topic of the NBA in Halifax (back around 1978). People talked about it in positive terms, even though it was only imaginable on a talk-show program.

This is a question for people living outside the HRM; do you think there would be opposition to a sensibly-priced stadium being built in the Halifax-area if it were built so that it could be expanded for the CFL?