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  #3161  
Old Posted Nov 18, 2012, 8:32 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by kph06 View Post
I suspect they are making a sheet pile wall to support the sidewalk/Prince St. so they excavate right up to it.
Thanks. That makes sense.
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  #3162  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2012, 4:21 AM
musicman musicman is offline
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That whole area is rock when you get just under the surface... Not sure why they would need a retaining wall at all....
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  #3163  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2012, 1:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete Crawford View Post
Are we sure that Nova Centre will be constructed all at once?.. or is there a chance that there will be a staged development where one of the towers may be held off/delayed/thrown into an abyss?
there is no contractural committments to develop the private section of the development. Therefore there is always a possibility the private section will be staged, which is likely to happen.
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  #3164  
Old Posted Nov 19, 2012, 1:20 PM
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That whole area is rock when you get just under the surface... Not sure why they would need a retaining wall at all....
In order to keep the street from being undermined.
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  #3165  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2012, 5:12 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Another Public Consultation is being held on Wednesday, November 21st - http://buildyourcentre.ca/public-engagement/metro-engagement-3/#.UKsQAmelv2A. Maybe they will have some more recent renderings? The final public consultation will be December 5th.
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  #3166  
Old Posted Nov 20, 2012, 6:35 AM
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One corner of the site as it looked in the WWII years. That (water?) tower is totally in a viewplane.


http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/318851_469036253146560_323909007_n.jpg
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  #3167  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
There is a viewplane. It is shown on the 9th page of this slideshow - http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/buildyourcentre/nova-centre-engagement-oct-3/2
Thanks for the information, but good grief! I go up to the Citadel to see the fortress and the city, not the water. If I want to see the water, I'll go to the waterfront. View plane? Where is the view plane of the skyline?

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  #3168  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 10:24 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Thanks for the information, but good grief! I go up to the Citadel to see the fortress and the city, not the water. If I want to see the water, I'll go to the waterfront. View plane? Where is the view plane of the skyline?

They certainly got carried away back in the 1970's when Halifax introduced these viewplanes.


(source: http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/buildyourcentre/nova-centre-engagement-oct-3/2)
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  #3169  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 11:45 PM
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I think the viewplanes and ramparts bylaws also interact in a really bad way. The viewplanes wouldn't be as limiting if it were possible to have taller in the areas that aren't covered. It will be a real waste if Cogswell is all limited to 83 m or so because of the ramparts bylaw.
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  #3170  
Old Posted Nov 21, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
They certainly got carried away back in the 1970's when Halifax introduced these viewplanes.


(source: http://www.slideshare.net/fullscreen/buildyourcentre/nova-centre-engagement-oct-3/2)
One thing that the Skye exercise has brought to light is that the viewplanes need to be reviewed. Even though Skye just missed VP6 the Rampart viewplane was blown away.

It isn't reasonable to have downtown held hostage with 75% viewplane coverage. The viewplanes that now have harbour view blocked should be abolished. The rampart viewplane should be abolished from Duke St. northward.
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  #3171  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 12:01 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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Did anyone happen to see the news reports on the Auditor General's comments about the Nova Centre? What's up with that?
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  #3172  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 1:20 AM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Did anyone happen to see the news reports on the Auditor General's comments about the Nova Centre? What's up with that?
Yup.

Simply put, business plan is inflated and he is suggesting that all partners to expect significantly lower revenue(loss) then projected. Recommends a independent study (all previous studies were conducted through TCL).

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/185617-ag-calls-for-second-look-at-convention-centre
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  #3173  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Did anyone happen to see the news reports on the Auditor General's comments about the Nova Centre? What's up with that?
It is Lapointe doing his usual routine of making headline-grabbing accusations that are often unsupported by any actual facts or common sense. This govt would do well to examine his appointment and terms of reference of his office, as he seems to be completely off the rails in his assignment selection and methodology.
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  #3174  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 2:58 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
Yup.

Simply put, business plan is inflated and he is suggesting that all partners to expect significantly lower revenue(loss) then projected. Recommends a independent study (all previous studies were conducted through TCL).

http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/185617-ag-calls-for-second-look-at-convention-centre

Here is a list of the reports and links - https://conventioncentreinfo.com/reports-news/reports/ . Reports were commissioned through the TCL and the province (Nova Scotia Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal). So it is not correct to state that they were all done through the TCL. Thumbs up to Premier Dexter for pointing this out in the Chronicle Herald story:

Premier Darrell Dexter, however, said the Crown corporation’s figures came from eight separate studies and because of that, the government doesn’t see the need for another review.

“Those studies were ... based on information that came about independent of the Trade Centre by respected market analysis companies,” Dexter told reporters at Province House.

“So I have no reason to disbelieve those projections.”


I normally vote Conservative but in this case Premier Dexter is showing leadership and the Tories and Liberals are just playing politics in stating their support but wanting another study.

Nova Scotia spends millions of dollars a year to promote itself as a tourist destination. The Tories and Liberals should show some faith in the province to attract convention goers as Premier Dexter is doing. The Auditor General seems to doubt that Halifax can draw as many delegates as Ottawa or Quebec City. I think that Halifax can compete with Ottawa and Quebec City for convention goers. This is the "culture of defeat" that Prime Minister Harper spoke about.
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  #3175  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 3:13 AM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
Here is a list of the reports and links - https://conventioncentreinfo.com/reports-news/reports/ . Reports were commissioned through the TCL and the province (Nova Scotia Department of Transportation and Infrastructure Renewal). So it is not correct to state that they were all done through the TCL. Thumbs up to Premier Dexter for pointing this out in the Chronicle Herald story:

Premier Darrell Dexter, however, said the Crown corporation’s figures came from eight separate studies and because of that, the government doesn’t see the need for another review.

“Those studies were ... based on information that came about independent of the Trade Centre by respected market analysis companies,” Dexter told reporters at Province House.

“So I have no reason to disbelieve those projections.”


I normally vote Conservative but in this case Premier Dexter is showing leadership and the Tories and Liberals are just playing politics in stating their support but wanting another study.

Nova Scotia spends millions of dollars a year to promote itself as a tourist destination. The Tories and Liberals should show some faith in the province to attract convention goers as Premier Dexter is doing. The Auditor General seems to doubt that Halifax can draw as many delegates as Ottawa or Quebec City. I think that Halifax can compete with Ottawa and Quebec City for convention goers. This is the "culture of defeat" that Prime Minister Harper spoke about.
Oh i am believe the first few years there will be an attraction, but as the AG is pointing out, the growth targets increase year over year. It is doubtful that these projections are fact.

I don't agree Dexter is showing leadership here. If he is so positive it is a worthwhile investment then whats the risk of an independent study?
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  #3176  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 3:38 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
Oh i am believe the first few years there will be an attraction, but as the AG is pointing out, the growth targets increase year over year. It is doubtful that these projections are fact.
If he stated this, then the Auditor General should re-read the reports. The projections seem to be quite conservative and are based on data from other convention centres. Here is a screen capture of page 14 from this Gardiner Pinfold report - https://conventioncentreinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Gardner-Pinfold-EIA-Report.pdf



Quote:
I don't agree Dexter is showing leadership here. If he is so positive it is a worthwhile investment then whats the risk of an independent study?
I like Premier Dexter's statement in the allnovascotia.com - "He said the AG's recommendation only makes sense if you believe nine studies are better than eight" (Story title - Convention Projections Flawed: Auditor General, author Brian Flinn, Wed, Nov 21st, 2012 edition)
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  #3177  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 4:01 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by Empire View Post
It isn't reasonable to have downtown held hostage with 75% viewplane coverage. The viewplanes that now have harbour view blocked should be abolished. The rampart viewplane should be abolished from Duke St. northward.
I agree. The ramparts maximum just seems like an unnecessary by-law, especially when so much of the downtown is covered by viewplanes.

I am sure that as soon as people get to the entrance of the Citadel courtyard they will notice that they are surrounded by modern highrises. Few tourists will overcome that psychological trauma by the time they get within the Citadel courtyard (sarcasm intended).
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  #3178  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 6:04 AM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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I agree about the viewplane and ramparts provisions. Personally (and I'm putting my urban planner hat on now), I'd like to see a chronology of events occur:
  1. First - get the regional centre plan and land use bylaw completed, approved and in operation. Provide reports back to council every year on development that has been approved each year within the regional centre (value of building permits, type of developments, etc). On the second, fourth and fifth years provide a house keeping amendment to the plan and bylaw to keep it up to date, correct mistakes etc. Then report back every 5 years, but do housekeeping as needed.
  2. Then begin a study on the effects of the ship building contract and oil exploration and examine the population increases over the last 10 years and chart the projected trends. Use this information, economic projects and other information to convince council to support either a significant 'overhaul' of the regional plan or a complete scrapping of the current one and doing a new one (I'll talk more about this in a second). Start out with a visioning exercise and once council approves that vision, write a regional plan to implement it with clear targets and implementation strategies to see the plan achieved (you know - the helpful things like having a regional transportation plan with your regional plan so you can tie land use and transportation decisions together!). It would be at this stage, we ask the tough questions about viewplanes. Then based on public feedback - include it in the vision and the RP.
  3. While a regional plan is done, begin work on a consolidated, regional land use bylaw. This can be as one bylaw, or one bylaw in two parts - rural and urban (regional centre and suburban). The Bylaw would be designed to implement the approved regional plan and vision for HRM. Here is where the viewplanes would change in terms of regulations.

The problem we have with the viewplanes is that there hasn't been a good visioning exercise that has asked the tough questions about what we want to be as a city, when we grow up (so to speak). HbD and the regional centre plan are great pieces of work, but it's very easy for staff to say it's not part of the scope of an exercise (I've done it countless times, so I'm definitely the pot calling the kettle here). But I think we all seem to agree, at some point the question of the viewplanes and the rules around them (and their value) has to be asked.

So why not ask those questions when doing a new vision for the city? Take advantage of this new optimism and look at a new regional plan. No plan is perfect and the plan that is in place is okay but it didn't foresee the ship building contract. That begs the question of whether we tweak the old one or overhaul it. Plus not having a transportation plan, with your regional plan, is a significant missed opportunity because transit $ may not be being spent the land use would be the most intense.

I'll get off my soap box, but that's my feeling on the viewplane issue. The question should be asked and if there is a clear opinion from consultation that some aspects aren't worth value - then maybe we do get rid of them? I suspect most people don't know about the rampart rule.

The other side of the coin is, if certain things have value - do we have to do it the same was as we are doing now? Meaning - if we don't want buildings up against a viewplane - is there a different way of protecting those views and not boxing them in rather than just simply saying no? Like say a setback as you go up in height?
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  #3179  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 10:49 AM
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I agree with all the comments made on the viewplanes and the restrictions on developments they cause.

I do think maybe another thread on viewplanes and general development problems or issues should probably be established as this issue would cover multiple projects and work and comments may be duplicated.
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  #3180  
Old Posted Nov 22, 2012, 12:51 PM
worldlyhaligonian worldlyhaligonian is offline
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Originally Posted by sdm View Post
Oh i am believe the first few years there will be an attraction, but as the AG is pointing out, the growth targets increase year over year. It is doubtful that these projections are fact.

I don't agree Dexter is showing leadership here. If he is so positive it is a worthwhile investment then whats the risk of an independent study?
What's your problem sdm? If you don't believe in it you're part of the problem in Halifax.

Progress is possible... no place would ever get ahead with your mentality.
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