Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The Gardiner is growing up - why can't the Viaducts?

Ugh. I'd hate to live in one of those condos and have to walk out the front door every morning. I've been under the Gardiner, it's not a cheerful place. It's actually a lot nicer under our viaducts because they're not hemmed in by concrete walls on all sides.

[mr.x]

^ that's a lot of Vancouverism going on in Toronto.

[Millennium2002]

Wait... isn't Toronto aiming to remove the Gardiner Expressway as well?

[Spork]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Ugh. I'd hate to live in one of those condos and have to walk out the front door every morning. I've been under the Gardiner, it's not a cheerful place. It's actually a lot nicer under our viaducts because they're not hemmed in by concrete walls on all sides.

Agreed. I was walking around the area in the spring and it was a complete deadzone. This is in the areas with condos that have long been built, as well.

[dreambrother808]

Oh but under our viaducts it would be so much different hemmed in by buildings... Those that wish for their removal are just evil car haters, no?

[Klazu]

Toronto should definitely dig Gardiner underground, as it's currently such an eye sore and makes the whole newly built waterfront area not that appealing. But even though this is the reality, I can't deny that the first of those two photos looks just crazy urban!

[SFUVancouver]

I live in Toronto and the space around and beneath the Gardiner is a dark cacophonous dead-zone of activity from which one seeks to depart as soon as is humanly possible.

[jlousa]

SFUVancouver what is your opinion on Underpass park in Toronto and do you feel that it's something that could work here (if council has a change of heart). It's surprising that PFS is involved with both projects but some different outcomes proposed.

[Sir Conga]

• There is an opportunity on Carrall Street to daylight the creek.

"Carrall Street was a tidal mud flat-y area," said heritage expert John Atkin.
"At high tide, it almost connected over to Burrard Inlet. It was used as a portage route for natives. Early settlers could also get their rowboats from Burrard Inlet over to False Creek and back again."
The area was so wet that when the streets were laid out, the sidewalks were raised.
"Hastings and Carrall are much higher than they would have been in the natural landscape," says Atkin.
"The sidewalks for Carrall street are actually eight feet above the ground level."

From This Vancouver Sun piece.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

Oh but under our viaducts it would be so much different hemmed in by buildings... Those that wish for their removal are just evil car haters, no?

(bold mine)

Yes.

Or paying off their developer funders. Take your pic.

[red-paladin]

The idea to remove the 'street' part of Carrall street, and make it a faux canal would be awesome.

[s211]

I'm sorry. Restoring a creek is called daylighting? God I hate planners. They're like dark age priests speaking latin. Sounds fancy but means less than dick to the rest of us.

[Smooth]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

The idea to remove the 'street' part of Carrall street, and make it a faux canal would be awesome.

It would also be very expensive. There is a seepage wall that is installed along the shoreline of North-East False Creek. It is in place to prevent all the toxic soil below the viaducts from leaching contaminants into False Creek. Any "creek daylighting" would require them redoing that whole wall.

This contaminated site is one of the main reasons why the City is just proposing parkland around where the viaducts would be coming down.

You can find out more information about the seepage cut-off wall here: http://www.geocon.net/pdf/paper23.pdf

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

The idea to remove the 'street' part of Carrall street, and make it a faux canal would be awesome.

Until the first addict drowns.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Wait... isn't Toronto aiming to remove the Gardiner Expressway as well?

I've heard a lot of talk on and off about putting the Gardiner - the Lakeshore part of it, that is - into a tunnel, rather the way Seattle is going to put the downtown section of Alaskan Way in a tunnel.

(gosh, I wish they'd do that in Vancouver, although they won't for any and all reasons; mostly $$$$$, I will admit)

[Epicurean]

Originally Posted by jlousa

SFUVancouver what is your opinion on Underpass park in Toronto and do you feel that it's something that could work here (if council has a change of heart). It's surprising that PFS is involved with both projects but some different outcomes proposed.

My brother (a landscape architect) is involved with that project, and while it looks as good as I think it could under the circumstances, it's still really not a place I would choose to hang out given any other choice. A similar project under the viaducts would probably be somewhat better though, simply because they aren't nearly as awful as the Gardiner to begin with.

[EastVanMark]

Toronto is looking for ways to replace the Gardiner with either a tunnel or moving the roadway closer to the water. (tunnel being most popular option).The usage would remain the same. The Gardiner is also in 10X worse condition than our viaducts. (concrete junks falling off of the roadway is a common occurrence). The area around there is still in the early stages of development. To judge them now is a little premature to say the least.

Toronto is taking its time coming up with ways to pay for a replacement that will serve the city at the same level or even improve it. Vancouver just pulls a knee-jerk decision to rid themselves of the "evil" viaducts as quickly as possible with little to no regard to potential practical uses or consequences of their actions. HUGE difference between the two.

[East Van]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I live in Toronto and the space around and beneath the Gardiner is a dark cacophonous dead-zone of activity from which one seeks to depart as soon as is humanly possible.

From my time there I have to agree...

The rail underpasses just north of the Gardiner between York & Yonge st multiply that feeling.

[East Van]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I live in Toronto and the space around and beneath the Gardiner is a dark cacophonous dead-zone of activity from which one seeks to depart as soon as is humanly possible.

From my time there I have to agree...

The rail underpasses just north of the Gardiner between York & Yonge st multiply that feeling.

I'd like to see a cut & cover tunnel down 1st ave to hwy 1. It makes sense...

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by jlousa

SFUVancouver what is your opinion on Underpass park in Toronto and do you feel that it's something that could work here (if council has a change of heart). It's surprising that PFS is involved with both projects but some different outcomes proposed.

Despite living here for more than a year, and routinely travelling in the vicinity of underpass park, I have never actually been there in person. I'll try to do so in the near future and share my impressions (and photos) in this thread.