Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by nname

Or.. it can go down the 152nd from 84th and then turn on the 72nd? This would actually bring new service to the intersection of 72nd and 148th.

Detail for the changes would be posted on Nov. 19.

That does seem like a very fair proposition in terms of providing new service to that area; it would, however, be fairly detrimental in terms of making transit accessibility much more difficult Enver Creek Secondary, a well-defined market and a year-round school (open for summer classes). So I'm not sure about that.

EDIT: I found a map from the SFU/Surrey Transportation Program lecture files that appear to indicate that it will indeed reroute as you have mentioned. In fact it actually seems to indicate all these changes. Here's an upload (sorry, can't get any better quality):

[nname]

Looking at that diagram, I'm just got a bit scared of how much TransLink is willing to cut for the service optimization... They left out one key in the legend: red

Actually, the easiest way to read is:
Red = service cancellation
Green = service reduction
Purple = route change (most likely a red portion somewhere)
Blue = service improvement
Dashed = new service

The C48 and C49 actually not that bad in term of boarding, for the little service it gets. Much of those bi-hourly mini-bus could actually get to about 1/3 to half full. Cutting service to those places means discontinue transit service completely in those areas.

The C40 is actually not that bad either in term of cost per rider ($2.76) and got a good 20 average boardings per hour (short trips). But that's not good enough and they cut the peak service from every 15 to 30min a few months ago, and will discontinue off-peak service entirely next month.

The ridership for 189 is bad during PM peak (less than 10 people per bus), but in the morning, it generally gets 20-30 riders per bus for the late-morning trips. The problem is that the demand is one-directional so it drive the cost up... But now all these people will have to take the 188 and go all the way around Burke Mtn (which will likely miss their WCE connection), or getting passed up by the C38 (and also miss their WCE connection). Now imagine 50 people trying to fight for a space on the little shuttle, which got a capacity of 24... Well, unless they're converting the peak C38 trips to conventional bus...

If I remember correctly, the main reason for converting the 177 back to conventional bus from shuttle C35 is that during morning peak, most of the shuttles are fill up to capacity before even departing Coquitlam Station. That means about 24 people every 30min need to go to Riverview or Fraser Mill area from Coquitlam Station during peak. After the merge, there is no longer a direct route, and not even a transfer point mid-route before almost reaching Braid Station...

So, so far, TransLink had touched 16 of the 30 lowest performing routes in the region (from worst to "least" worst):
Route cancellation (4/30): C99, 177, 189, C90
Route cut/reduction (10/30): 595, C48, 351, C49, 190, C43, C25, C70, C26, C41
Route modified (3/30): C9, 405, 640
Route unchanged (14/30): 606, C94, C88, 337, C84, C87, C89, 603, C22, 791, C64, 608, 354

Looking at the list, seems like TransLink had "finished" the job North of Fraser as they only left 2 of the route untouched. In fact, for 31st to 50th worst routes, 6 NoF routes recieved cuts and only 2 were unchanged. Now after thinking about this, I know exactly what those three big yellow "under review" area means... Next big change would be in the Ladner area followed by Langley and South Surrey? (Although Langley Township would probably threaten to pull out of Metro Vancouver if TransLink dare to reduce any of their routes...)

[Dave2]

2 discontinued... The 33 now provides service on 16th Ave, will some 22s now short turn at Burrard I wonder.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by Dave2

2 discontinued... The 33 now provides service on 16th Ave, will some 22s now short turn at Burrard I wonder.

Via TransLink's website, they say that the 22 will actually short turn at Kingsway and Knight. That to me make some sense... the bus generally gets crowded from there on until Broadway...

As for the cutting of routes and service to Coquitlam and Port Coquitlam... Now that you mention it, they might be throwing away a bit too much...?

[Gordon]

Will the discontinuation of the #2 not make the #22 much buisier & possibly cause overcrowding problems south of downtown Vancouver through kits?

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

Via TransLink's website, they say that the 22 will actually short turn at Kingsway and Knight. That to me make some sense... the bus generally gets crowded from there on until Broadway...

An almost empty 2 arriving at Burrard station will be missed. Things change, 2 was PNE Park and Ride at one time; I still think of the bus from Tsawwassen as the "Valley to Sea", and from YVR the 100/800 Midway Connector.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by Dave2

An almost empty 2 arriving at Burrard station will be missed. Things change, 2 was PNE Park and Ride at one time; I still think of the bus from Tsawwassen as the "Valley to Sea", and from YVR the 100/800 Midway Connector.

Times do change eh? I frankly don't recall a route 2 to the PNE Park and Ride... That and plus the park and ride itself seems rather desloate and empty in the off-PNE season of late (maybe due to the community charge for a daytime spot?)

EDIT: I recall a time when Wikipedia hosted the history of Vancouver bus routes... they later took it down because of "lack of sources and relevance"...

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by allan_kuan

EDIT: I recall a time when Wikipedia hosted the history of Vancouver bus routes... they later took it down because of "lack of sources and relevance"...

You might be able to find what you want nowadays on the Canadian Public Transit Discussion Board
LINK

nname: If you are too worried there will be consultations on this.

[CBeats]

Originally Posted by nname

Proposed Service Optimization for mid to late-2013:

#251, #252 - Two-way service and connect to #250 (discontinue downtown portion?)

This is correct! So excited that these busses will be going up Taylor Way and 15th instead of winding across West Van in one direction forever...

[Gordon]

Does anyone have the ridership numbers for the #2 route?

[nname]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

nname: If you are too worried there will be consultations on this.

Well, first of all, the route change doesn't affect me personally so I don't think I have much of a say there... Second of all, they're only going to upload the detailed route change on the 19th and the consultation is on the 21st so I doubt many people would even know before the consultation is over.

The Maple Ridge one in the third week is going to be fun though..

Maple Ridge bus routes in jeopardy

It didn't take long for recycling depot executive-director Kim Day to get busy after hearing of possible cuts to bus service in Maple Ridge.

She was on the phone early Thursday after hearing from one of her workers that those cuts could include route C-48, which runs along River Road and takes employees to the Maple Ridge Recycling Depot in Albion Industrial Area.

"I haven't heard back yet," she said.

"I'm sure it's a big concern for other businesses along this street as well."

Twitter posts started popping up early Thursday about possible cuts to bus service taking effect next year as TransLink looks to pare its expenses during its most recent funding crunch.

Coast Mountain Bus spokesperson Derek Zabel confirmed that the C-48 service along River Road could go, with the changes taking effect early next year.

However, an open house in Maple Ridge next month will sound out the public's thoughts.

"This is just the plan that we've drawn up. People will have the opportunity to share their opinions with us when we have the open house."

Zabel said Coast Mountain, a TransLink affiliate, is considering eliminating the River Road portion, south of the Lougheed Highway, of the C-48 community shuttle route.

Instead, it's thinking of extending the C-48 route to the fast-growing Albion area, specifically on to McClure Drive near Samuel Robertson Technical secondary. The new C-48 route would then connect to the Port Haney West Coast Express station.

Zabel said the C-48 route used to connect to the Albion ferry before it was shut down in 2009, but the numbers have consistently remained low. "Historically, it hasn't been a very busy route," he added.

"There's not a lot out there. They're going through some pretty rural areas."

At peak times, the shuttle has between five to 14 passengers, he said. It runs now only every two hours, five times a day, starting at 10 a.m.

Coast Mountain is also considering removing the Thornhill, or southerly portion of route C-49, which runs along Dewdney Trunk Road to 284th Street. At peak times, the C-49 only carries between eight and 12 passengers.

Zabel said the two routes are among the "lowest performing in the entire [Coast Mountain Bus] system."

Coast Mountain is also considering one other change, turning the C-41 route, which runs every half hour in Pitt Meadows, into a loop route that runs every hour, so people can get back to where they came from.

A Coast Mountain Bus driver whose routes are in eastern part of the district said on one of those routes, the shuttle is usually full when it completes its run into downtown Maple Ridge.

But as a driver, there's little that can be done to influence Coast Mountain Bus scheduling decisions.

"We can't change it. It has to come from the public," she said, adding she'll try to contact Whonnock residents to see if they want to talk to Mayor Ernie Daykin.

"We need so much service in Maple Ridge. We're not getting it as it is. We can't afford to lose any more."

Day said she wants to learn exactly what the reductions will be before she can figure out how it will affect the 64 employees who work at the centre. Not all take the bus to get to work.

About 30 people with developmental disabilities are among the recycling depot's workforce, after Community Living B.C. recently renewed a supported work program with Ridge Meadows recycling.

"I'll get the mayor and everybody else involved because we need that bus service."

About half of the $98 million in annual efficiencies spelled out in TransLink's new base plan come from further cost cutting – mostly in bus operations and maintenance – with the rest coming from revenue gains.

TransLink finalizes its plan in November after the independent TransLink Commissioner scrutinizes it.

Further cuts could come next year if area mayors rescind a $30-million property tax hike assumed in the plan and no replacement source is approved by the province.

source

[nname]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Does anyone have the ridership numbers for the #2 route?

4,000 per day.

But that route is least of my worry because the change would most likely just the "2" will now sign as "22" and extend from downtown to Kingsway... Nothing would be lost except for probably just slight reduction of combined frequency, if any...

[twoNeurons]

Combining the 159 and 177 makes some sense for Eastbound, but it will mean that Coquitlam no longer has a direct link to United Blvd. It will likely increase the service on United, though and then being that Lougheed is on the FTN, the 169 will increase to make up for the loss on the Lougheed corridor.

With the new King Edward bridge, United Blvd is easier to get to for buses. There are also more employers on United Blvd. as well. My guess is that they want to increase the access to United from Braid as it's likely that more people coming to United from Coquitlam are driving or have access to a car.

The change makes sense if we have to cut back, but my questions and concerns are:

• What about Cape Horn Ave?
• what about the split route on United NOrthbound?
• What about the loss of a direct bus to United from most parts of Coquitlam?

EDIT: If the 159 was extended to Coquitlam Central, SOME of the pain could be avoided. The trip would be longer than the existing 177, but at least there isn't a transfer.

ALSO, nname, the C35 was full eastbound from Braid. There was almost always a 1 bus wait. A lot of ppl get off at United and the Casino. I'm not sure what the AM peak WESTBOUND was like, but you could be right.

[nname]

When I was taking the 169 at around 8:30am on a daily basis a few years ago, the C35 departing Coquitlam Station at that time was almost never "full", but most of the time it gets a standing load (which means a load of 21~24).

And to answer your question:

• Seems like the 159 will do both loops, at least during peak hours
• Cape Horn and Riverview will loose all transit service.
• The 169 will have no change in service as far as I know
• Extra service will be added to Lougheed with a reroute of 153, but that route is going to be mixed with community shuttle starting December
• Unless there's an increase of service for the 159, the service on United will actually decease as the 159 run less often than the 177 outside peak hours
• The 169 is being interlined with the 177. Although since the 169 was being promoted to FTN, this interlining now only occur during late evening (which is why the 169 is only hourly after 9pm). Now after the 177 being cut, the entire Lougheed-Coquitlam corridor is loosing service...

[Dave2]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Does anyone have the ridership numbers for the #2 route?

Anecdotal ... in the PM peak a #2 will fill to capacity at Burrard Station or Georgia St. Anyone heading to north of 16th Ave is just as happy to board a 22... But the 2 was nice as it arrived almost empty.

[go_leafs_go02]

#555 - Braid/Carvolth Routing: (Port Mann/Highway 1 RapidBus)

http://infomaps.translink.ca/Route_Diagrams/85/r555.pdf

[idunno]

What is the number for the RapidBus? (I'm assuming that is not it because the rapidbus goes near Guildford and to Lougheed). Does anyone know if it is indeed starting service on December 1st??

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by idunno

What is the number for the RapidBus? (I'm assuming that is not it because the rapidbus goes near Guildford and to Lougheed). Does anyone know if it is indeed starting service on December 1st??

Rapidbus is route #555, and it will not go to Guildford or Lougheed.

It will connect to Braid station, and will extend past to Lougheed once the onramps to/from Hwy. 1 are completed.

December 3 is the expected day service will be launched (Monday)

[idunno]

Rigght that makes sense. I wasn't sure how far they were along with the Government St ramps. Exciting in any case!

[nname]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

December 3 is the expected day service will be launched (Monday)

Not too sure about that though... Since I can no longer find that entry in the database on Dec 3 as it seems to be disabled temporary.. (or maybe they just do that to stop people from peeking!?)

And seems like TransLink is really late in producing the December pdf schedule. The route map was already online for 2 weeks but the system map and schedule is still not uploaded yet (they usually upload it about 1 month before the service change).

On a side note, the 96 (King George B-Line) is now back into the database.. although there's not yet a date associated with the entry... So probably a lunch date of Apr or June 2013 for that route?