Wateridge Village development [Hemlock Rd, Codd's Rd] | U/C

[c_speed3108]

Originally Posted by TMA-1

I saw this fire news at the Citizen. I should have known to look here first. That must/might be the school on the upper left.

It's a crappy shot but what the hell...

You could put a whole 'nother decent sized airport down there.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/23575605@N08/8180447180/in/photostream/lightbox/

ThE school is located about one third of the way down the photo from the top and about one quarter of the way across from the left. Near the parade square. One of the last buildings left.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I mean transit connections (rapid transit, not trams and/or buses) to the CFB and possibly the bridge. But yes, we might also be better off waiting for other redevelopment projects to be completed.

But Can'tLands now says they won't aim so high, without any rapid transit, and visionless Ottawa in cheapskate Ontario won't be building rapid transit anywhere near the Montreal corridor in this century, if ever, so, yeah, this will be another wasted opportunity, Can'tLands will build a 🞵🞵🞵🞵-ugly suburb on this site, and the Montreal-Rideau corridor will be served by an inferior and deteriorating bus service, thanks to a transit utility and political masters who have much higher priorities in the vote-rich subsidized suburbs, until the 2100s at the earliers.

Doomed. Ottawa is just plain doomed. Bulldoze the damn thing and move the capital to Montreal or Toronto or Kingston.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Update from the CLC, advertised in yesterday's Citizen as well:

What an incredibly 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 location for any kind of consultation, other than - what this is - a sham one.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

But Can'tLands now says they won't aim so high, without any rapid transit, and visionless Ottawa in cheapskate Ontario won't be building rapid transit anywhere near the Montreal corridor in this century, if ever, so, yeah, this will be another wasted opportunity, Can'tLands will build a 🞵🞵🞵🞵-ugly suburb on this site, and the Montreal-Rideau corridor will be served by an inferior and deteriorating bus service, thanks to a transit utility and political masters who have much higher priorities in the vote-rich subsidized suburbs, until the 2100s at the earliers.

Doomed. Ottawa is just plain doomed. Bulldoze the damn thing and move the capital to Montreal or Toronto or Kingston.

Why so cheerful today? Must have been the lovely weather putting you in a better mood or something.




But if we're going to go off-topic and talk about capital relocation, I'd put it at North Bay (just give it a better name).

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dado

Why so cheerful today? Must have been the lovely weather putting you in a better mood or something.

Was in a good mood until I realized Can'tLands doesn't want you at their "consultation" if you don't drive a car.

But if we're going to go off-topic and talk about capital relocation, I'd put it at North Bay (just give it a better name).

Put it right in the centre of Canada: Baker Lake!

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Was in a good mood until I realized Can'tLands doesn't want you at their "consultation" if you don't drive a car.



Put it right in the centre of Canada: Baker Lake!

Really? I would put it in Gatineau!

Half of the civil servants live there anyway!

And they have a new arena and good intimate restaurants downtown, as well as the upcoming Rapibus, a great casino with food and entertainment and a great Viu of Parliament Hill as well as being a few minutes drive from Gatineau Park.

Maybe Gatineau should annex Ottawa and become a Federal District?

[Dado]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Beechwood? The blue-hairs would riot.

Yes... that routing is much easier to run through the base than one coming from Montréal Rd.

If serving the base redevelopment directly is the goal, then there aren't a lot of options other than Beechwood-Hemlock.

One of the others is to use Montréal as far as the Aviation Parkway and head north along it, with the side benefit of the Montfort Hospital being served more directly.

Another is to head north along St. Laurent to Hemlock from Montréal.

Each routing option has its advantages and disadvantages. In the absence of any redevelopment opportunity at the base I would say go for the straight Montréal Rd option, but it's not the best for serving the base directly.


And I would really like to know what idiot was in charge of putting CITÉ Collégiale where it is. That is just a horrific location, even worse than where Algonquin College and Carleton University were put.

The former CFB Rockcliffe lands design was a god-awful suburban piece of 🞵🞵🞵🞵. So the new version is almost bound to be 10 times worse, especially once the NIMBIES and green-space fetishists have their way with it.

But how can you ignore the hill housing?

[Dado]

Originally Posted by KHOOLE

Really? I would put it in Gatineau!

Half of the civil servants live there anyway!

And they have a new arena and good intimate restaurants downtown, as well as the upcoming Rapibus, a great casino with food and entertainment and a great Viu of Parliament Hill as well as being a few minutes drive from Gatineau Park.

Maybe Gatineau should annex Ottawa and become a Federal District?

You're not doing a great job of selling your idea, here.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Dado

Each routing option has its advantages and disadvantages. In the absence of any redevelopment opportunity at the base I would say go for the straight Montréal Rd option, but it's not the best for serving the base directly.

Montreal Road would be fine, if the development would stitch the new urban fabric to Montreal Road as a main street. But, naturally, it will not.

There is no need for stand-alone mass transit to the base site.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by Dado

You're not doing a great job of selling your idea, here.

Sorry, just trying to be funny and facetious. Not pushing anything!

I agree with you about Cite Collegiale. (Algonquin College should be getting its Transitway connection soon).

The former CFB Rockliffe is over 300 acres of new development. That's 10 times the surface area of Lansdowne Park. It's inconceivable that a modern public transportation system such as LRT has not been pre-planned before any thought is to be given to residential development.

If we use the Orleans model, this land will accomodate primarily middle-class people, a bit like Parkwood Hills built by Minto in the 1960's.

We are no longer in the 60's with gas-guzzling Chev Impalas with fancy tailfins.

It should be said loud and clear that shovels should not hit the ground before the dinosaurs in the City's Planning Department come out with an adequate 21st Century public transportation system that the residents of the Capital City of Canada would be proud of and not denigrate like the present smosgabord of buses that no one really wants to ride.

I still think that a surface LRT or street-car line from the former CFB Rockliffe to, say, Rideau Centre, along Beechwood-St.Patrick-Dalhousie-Rideau etc axis would be a boon to Ottawa's image as a great city to live in and raise a family and get an education, moderate-priced entertainment and sports, and make friends up and down the streets of one's neighbourhood.

The former CFB Rockliffe will become another suburban neighbourhood, just like Kanata, Barrhaven and Orleans. Let's plan to provide adequate public transportation such as LRT to all these places before digging an expensive tunnel underneath downtown Ottawa that will be of use only for 20 hours a week and be just as deserted as the Sparks Street Mall after 5 PM.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dado

And I would really like to know what idiot was in charge of putting CITÉ Collégiale where it is. That is just a horrific location, even worse than where Algonquin College and Carleton University were put.

Really? I think it's a great location. Big piece of land between 2 main drags (Montreal and Ogilvie) in the old east end with easy access to both Orleans and Gatineau.

[eternallyme]

Canada Lands needs to sell that land to someone who has a TRUE vision.

[eternallyme]

Anyway, a subway or high-end rapid transit line is probably necessary in that corridor ultimately. Deviating it from Montreal Road to serve the area is required. I'd target it in the next TMP.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Canada Lands needs to sell that land to someone who has a TRUE vision.

Yes, they have proven time and time again that they cannot handle any sort of redevelopment project.

[eternallyme]

Here's a base to work from - a possible rapid transit idea? It would almost entirely be underground. That would then follow Montreal Road and Rideau Street to downtown, and terminate at Blair.

[J.OT13]

Elimanates the need for a spur, that seems like a good route.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Elimanates the need for a spur, that seems like a good route.

PROS:
* Rapid transit from both Blair and downtown to La Cite Collegiale, something seriously lacking now
* Rapid transit as well to the Montfort Hospital with the routing going directly underneath their property
* Significant increase in service to Carson Grove and the Brittany Drive area
* Enormous increase in capacity on the corridor
* Considerable cost savings with major reductions or elimination of Routes 12 and 129 and little or no additional bus service needed for CFB Rockcliffe
* Transfer opportunities are maximized at Blair, the Rideau Centre and along the route itself
* Development opportunities are maximized at CFB Rockcliffe with two stations on the site and two stations nearby - able to use them as key nodes

CONS:
* Direct service lost east of the NRC area (i.e. either steps away or a short walk away) - densities are very low though in Rothwell Heights and additional service to Beacon Hill necessary as below
* Additional bus service likely required on Route 124 and another feeder route (127 extension?) to replace the eastern part of Route 12
* Some walking distance required from Montreal Road between St. Laurent and the NRC area
* High capital costs as the entire line must be underground (the topography in the area supports underground transit).

If a seventh station on that map is warranted, between Granville and St. Laurent (proposed central Vanier station is just west of Granville, but could be shifted to Marier), an additional station could be built at de l'Eglise, and Brittany Station could be moved to beneath Brittany Drive rather than central to the community (downside of that is poor connection with Route 7, which the shown location supports).

Since the route would be entirely (or almost entirely) underground, would it be better to use heavy rail or light rail there? I wonder what the passenger counts on Route 12 overall are now, considering that the ridership would likely more than double as the CFB Rockcliffe area would be high density, and La Cite Collegiale would also likely be much larger and pick off Route 129 ridership.

[Dado]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Really? I think it's a great location. Big piece of land between 2 main drags (Montreal and Ogilvie) in the old east end with easy access to both Orleans and Gatineau.

Rapid transit can't easily serve it and even if something comes close it'll still be on the far side of some large parking lots. Somewhere like what is now the Place des Gouverneurs site near Cyrville Station on the other hand would have been right on the Transitway and just as accessible to Orleans, if not more so (and not sure what you mean by Gatineau).

[Dado]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Canada Lands needs to sell that land to someone who has a TRUE vision.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Yes, they have proven time and time again that they cannot handle any sort of redevelopment project.

I'm trying to decide if you're being facetious here or serious...

Garrison Woods in Calgary was done by them and it looks pretty good. Some think it a bit too British-looking, but that's a matter of taste. As a redevelopment though it definitely isn't typical suburban fare; it's more like a New Urbanist development.

I'm pretty sure they've also done decent work in other cities.

In Calgary the biggest problem they had was the City itself because they were doing so many new and different things. One could well imagine the same issue cropping up here.



All of which actually makes the previous Rockcliffe plan all the more disappointing.

[KHOOLE]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Canada Lands needs to sell that land to someone who has a TRUE vision.

Bring back Bill Teron or someone with similar talent and vision.

Bill Teron, in the early days of Minto and Campeau, had the vision of a self sufficient community such as Kanata North and was instrumental in attracting the hi-tech industries to Ottawa.

Has there been any mention yet to any facilities that would be creating employment on the former CFB Rockliffe area? The idea is to re-establish the concept of having people live close to where they work and get cars off the roads.

That's why I think that an ideal rapid public transportation system, preferably LRT, does not need to be a cross-city system. That's why I believe that a tunnel underneath downtown is a bad idea.

Just like the spokes of a wheel, rapid transit should be provided between the suburbs, where people live, and the central core, where most jobs are.

Most cars on the 417 coming from Orléans get off before Bronson. Most cars on the 417 coming from Kanata get off before the Vanier Parkway.

From all directions, most cars have the central downtown core as a destination. Few cars have a destination beyond this core if they are coming to work, to school or on business.

A LRT between the former air force base and the Rideau Centre, using traditional routes such as Beechwood, St.Patrick and Dalhousie which are mixed-use residential, office and commercial entities is all that's necessary in this case.

Pedestrian, vehicular and public transportation systems within the central core should be treated as a separate and unique unit because the needs and end points are different and dissimilar than those of areas such as Orléans, Barrhaven, Kanata and the about-to-be suburb of the former Air Force Base.

BTW, has this former CFB area been given a name yet?