Halifax Stadium Discussion

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Indeed - all of HRM peninsula with a small exception is now represented by anti-development NDP councillors in Watts and Mason. Developers will need to move away for the next 4 years.

Hopefully you're still around in 4 years to see the peninsula's progress of development, despite your NDP bias of them being anti-development.

Dexter supports the Nova Centre...

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

Dexter supports the Nova Centre...

Mason and Watts do not.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Mason and Watts do not.

It's happening anyway.

[fenwick16]

(source: Rick Grant at CTV news - http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/savage-leads-charge-for-new-stadium-in-halifax-1.1032263#ixzz2BpDJI455

Savage leads charge for new stadium in Halifax


CTV Atlantic
Published Friday, Nov. 9, 2012 7:07PM AST
Last Updated Friday, Nov. 9, 2012 7:09PM AST

Halifax’s new mayor says he will lead the charge to get a stadium for the city.

Mike Savage has long supported a stadium for the city and is now in a position to do something about it.

“A stadium is like anything else. Is it in the best long-term interests of the city? I believe it is,” he says. “I am prepared to say that and be part of leading the charge on it.”

Two stadium proposals have died since 2007, including one for the Commonwealth Games and one for the FIFA Women’s World Cup.

Savage believes it is possible to have a stadium commitment during his four-year term.

“Absolutely. If it’s not done in four years, it’s not going to get done.”

Kim Mason, president of the Royal Bank in the Atlantic region, chaired the last stadium steering committee.

Mason is optimistic and tells CTV via email “my optimism is fueled by the change in leadership and the hope that, with this, all three levels of government, supported by the business community, we see this project becomes a reality.”

However, some business owners say they need to see the numbers first.

“A stadium would provide a great attraction tool for business opportunities, but we would be looking for economics,” says Nancy Conrad, vice-president of the Halifax Chamber of Commerce.

“We want to see the business case before we give full endorsement to it.”

Premier Darrell Dexter also wants to see the business case. He says a stadium is not at the top of his priority list and doesn’t see the federal government pitching in.

“The federal government has said unequivocally that they will not support stadiums.”

Late Friday afternoon, an official from the Defence Department told CTV News Defence Minister Peter MacKay would like to make land at Shannon Park available for a stadium, but the province and the city have to be on board.

When a second attempt at building a stadium at Shannon Park failed, MacKay said he was going to turn over the property to the Canada Lands Company.

However, that hasn’t happened yet.

Shannon Park is still in the department’s hands, so MacKay still has the ability to make the land available for a stadium.

The city has agreed to commit $20 million toward a stadium.

With files from CTV Atlantic's Rick Grant

Read more: http://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/savage-leads-charge-for-new-stadium-in-halifax-1.1032263#ixzz2BpDJI455

I almost missed this story. I had pretty much given up on the chance of Halifax getting a stadium anytime in the near future. I hope that Mayor Mike Savage can keep up the optimism and push for a stadium. Hopefully, all the people who support a stadium will show their support to Mike Savage. Thumbs up to Rick Grant at CTV who continues to keep the stadium issue in the news.

The biggest obstacle, in my opinion, is Premier Dexter. His insistence that the Federal Government won't support a stadium is a real cop out. All that Premier Dexter has to do is state that the NS government will commit $20 million dollars to a stadium if the federal government matches it. Then he has an out, if the Federal government says "No" then he can say that he supported it but the feds wouldn't. Take it one step further - have private contributions required too match the HRM, NS and federal governments for a total of $80 million dollars. If the federal government would throw in land at Shannon Park on top of $20 million then Halifax would have a decent stadium.

[RyeJay]

So Shannon Park is still seriously being considered, and has political backing.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Mike Savage were to attempt to find a suitable stadium location on the peninsula, as close to the downtown as possible, since growing the downtown was part of his more commonly used talking points to get elected.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by RyeJay

So Shannon Park is still seriously being considered, and has political backing.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if Mike Savage were to attempt to find a suitable stadium location on the peninsula, as close to the downtown as possible, since growing the downtown was part of his more commonly used talking points to get elected.

Although I have felt that a stadium on the peninsula would be the ideal location since it is close to the universities, it is interesting to note that the many of the Councillors who strongly support a stadium seem to be on the Dartmouth side. Mayor Mike Savage was an MP on the Dartmouth side (Cole Harbour). I don't see much support coming from Mason or Watts on the Peninsula.

[someone123]

I don't believe the line about the federal government being unwilling to fund a stadium. I don't think they will randomly pay for one, but if it is part of a larger, high-profile project then they might contribute in some way. Since they own the Shannon Park site that would be a good opportunity to get them to contribute. Hopefully a Shannon Park plan will include road upgrades, ferry upgrades, and a mixed-use development as well as the stadium. It is not the most accessible site but it's a nice location and it's a good compromise between the Peninsula and a far-flung suburban site.

It would also be nice if they got rid of the power lines next to the MacKay. I am not sure why those aren't under the bridge deck.

If there is federal support, HRM support, and some good private support (donors + corporate) then Dexter may change his mind.

It will be interesting to see how Savage and the new council follow through on their promises over the next year. One of Peter Kelly's pet projects and part of his election platform was that he wanted commuter rail and it never happened.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Although I have felt that a stadium on the peninsula would be the ideal location since it is close to the universities, it is interesting to note that the many of the Councillors who strongly support a stadium seem to be on the Dartmouth side. Mayor Mike Savage was an MP on the Dartmouth side (Cole Harbour). I don't see much support coming from Mason or Watts on the Peninsula.

Very good point you've just made, regarding the councillors from Dartmouth.

Even though the peninsular councillors are unlikely to support this enterprise, I still have hopes that Savage would aim for a site as close to the core as possible for the sake of the stadium's success, given the universities you've mentioned that would eagerly feed a stadium with business, especially if it were within walking distance, and given all of Savage's pro-downtown rhetoric.

It pleases me the Shannon Park is seeming to at least be the default choice at the moment. As someone123 has said -- it's not the best option, but it's better than other options that have previously been considered...

[Empire]

Dexter needs to do three things:

1. Recognize that a stadium in Halifax is good for all of the province just like the convention centre is.

2. Support the stadium project by committing $20 million immediately.

3. In addition to the $20 million committing, the province should create some sort of venture capital fund with a tax credit and allow private investment to occur.

If the Shannon lands were available then the stadium could be part of a much larger project. Perhaps some of the PMQ's could be converted to affordable housing or maybe BIO could expand with more research facilities another dock/ferry terminal and a real aquarium. The possibilities are endless at this site and the more Dexter balks at this opportunity the more he shows his true colours. By not supporting this he is showing he is not a forward thinker and should move aside at let some real thinkers take the reins.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by Empire

Dexter needs to do three things:

1. Recognize that a stadium in Halifax is good for all of the province just like the convention centre is.

2. Support the stadium project by committing $20 million immediately.

3. In addition to the $20 million committing, the province should create some sort of venture capital fund with a tax credit and allow private investment to occur.

If the Shannon lands were available then the stadium could be part of a much larger project. Perhaps some of the PMQ's could be converted to affordable housing or maybe BIO could expand with more research facilities another dock/ferry terminal and a real aquarium. The possibilities are endless at this site and the more Dexter balks at this opportunity the more he shows his true colours. By not supporting this he is showing he is not a forward thinker and should more aside at let some real thinkers take the reins.

I would hazard an assumption that Dexter is forward thinking, but he's also concerned about re-election.

Outside of Halifax, only a slight majority of Nova Scotians support the Nova Centre. To the townies, it's mainly seen as the 'Halifax Centre'.

The announcement of a stadium in HRM, when all but a couple of the towns in this province are in drastic decline, would potentially piss a lot of people off. What about government investments for their towns?

(...even though these towns haven't the industries and revenues to maintain themselves, even WITH provincial equalisation, which is why no one wants to fuckin' live there in the first place...)

[q12]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

Although I have felt that a stadium on the peninsula would be the ideal location since it is close to the universities, it is interesting to note that the many of the Councillors who strongly support a stadium seem to be on the Dartmouth side. Mayor Mike Savage was an MP on the Dartmouth side (Cole Harbour). I don't see much support coming from Mason or Watts on the Peninsula.

Good points fenwick, I think the path of least resistance is Dartmouth when it comes to a stadium.

Originally Posted by Empire

Dexter needs to do three things:

1. Recognize that a stadium in Halifax is good for all of the province just like the convention centre is.

2. Support the stadium project by committing $20 million immediately.

3. In addition to the $20 million committing, the province should create some sort of venture capital fund with a tax credit and allow private investment to occur.

If the Shannon lands were available then the stadium could be part of a much larger project. Perhaps some of the PMQ's could be converted to affordable housing or maybe BIO could expand with more research facilities another dock/ferry terminal and a real aquarium. The possibilities are endless at this site and the more Dexter balks at this opportunity the more he shows his true colours. By not supporting this he is showing he is not a forward thinker and should more aside at let some real thinkers take the reins.

Agree completely.

[someone123]

The province and HRM don't need to commit any money right now, but HRM needs to reach an understanding with the federal government and come up with a specific stadium plan, including cost, for the Shannon Park site if that is the desired outcome. The stadium budget and implementation depend on securing a site and determining the project scope; the lack of those details was what killed the FIFA women's cup bid, not necessarily a lack of funds. "We want a stadium" is not the point where you can go asking for money or convincingly tell a sporting organization that you will have a stadium actually ready to host their event.

Shannon Park needs a lot of work but given the proximity to the MacKay and harbour access it could actually be quite good with some improvements. It's also a good candidate for an urban village type of development similar to the Motherhouse Lands plan. A development like that would help to absorb some of the construction and land costs.

[Welkin]

I wonder why we never gave any consideration to Leighton Dillman Park? There is plenty of open land, lots of nearby parking (especially at the Sportsplex) and it is just a short trip from downtown Halifax. Any thoughts on this location?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Welkin

I wonder why we never gave any consideration to Leighton Dillman Park? There is plenty of open land, lots of nearby parking (especially at the Sportsplex) and it is just a short trip from downtown Halifax. Any thoughts on this location?

There is a good explanation of why it can't be used for a stadium on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_Commons. It would be a great location otherwise, especially with the new bus terminal there.

[halifaxboyns]

It would be interesting if the Waterfront Development Corp could get Shannon Park. It's a crown corp, so developing the waterside portion along the same line as Bishop's Landing in Halifax could be great for a harbourside board walk. Then the inner portion could be the stadium and the boardwalk could lead to the ferry terminal (assuming high speed ferries come).

I realize there is a land claim on the site, not sure from whom. If WDCC could get the lot, I would suggest a financial and building settlement. Give them some money and agree to build a native interpretive centre or something that would tell the story of the settlement that was at Shannon Park. That way, it could be part of the boardwalk/ferry terminal area.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

There is a good explanation of why it can't be used for a stadium on Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dartmouth_Commons. It would be a great location otherwise, especially with the new bus terminal there.

Thank you for pointing that out. That definitely takes it off the table.

[q12]

Moncton loses Uteck Bowl

Low attendance behind Atlantic University Sport leadership's decision to pull national football semis

Atlantic University Sport has ended its Uteck Bowl partnership with the City of Moncton after one try.

AUS executive director Phil Currie confirmed Monday that a contract to play the 2011, 2013 and 2015 national football semifinals at the 10,000-seat stadium at Universite de Moncton will be voided with two games left on the agreement.

Last year’s game between the Acadia Axemen and the McMaster Marauders in Moncton was modestly attended and did not meet the financial thresholds in the contract.

Read more here: http://thechronicleherald.ca/sports/170402-moncton-loses-uteck-bowl

Wow big news the Uteck bowl is likely coming home where it belongs!

[someone123]

I suspect that it's easy to overestimate the number of people who will consistently travel hours to go to games. All else being equal it is preferable to have a larger regional population, especially for stuff like ads and merchandise, but for tickets sales the local population is dramatically more significant. In Regina the CFL ticket sales are something like 90% local, and the local population there is dwarfed by the regional population.

I could see a person living within a short drive of a game being on average 10 times or more more likely to attend than somebody living 2 hours away. In other words, when you calculate the size of a market for ticket sales by adding in people a couple counties over you should be multiplying those numbers by 0.1 or less.

The same thing is true for all sorts of regional infrastructure. People consistently overestimate the importance of planning to serve nearby towns and counties.

It is too bad that the SMU stadium has been so neglected during all this talk of a larger municipal stadium that might or might not happen.

[RyeJay]

Originally Posted by q12

Wow big news the Uteck bowl is likely coming home where it belongs!

It'll be interesting to see how the Irving media bubble in New Brunswick will spin this over the days to come.

[W.Sobchak]

"due to unforeseen seen 'Halifax-class' circumstances, Moncton has decided to stop hosting the doomed Uteck Bowl event. The failed event was Halifax's fault, so we blame Halifax, because Moncton wouldn't do something stupid like putting our Casino in the middle of nowhere" - or something to the nature of Halifax is stupid and we are the second coming so prepare.