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  #7641  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 5:59 PM
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Just saw on its real estate agent's twitter feed that the Gothic Arches (the old Centenary Queen Square Church) has been sold to a developer who intends to convert it into some kind of residential. I'm assuming it will be divided into condos or apartments, but no doubt we'll get more details as time goes on.
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  #7642  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 6:05 PM
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The developer is from Toronto and, apparently, young and ambitious.

Really glad to see that property sold. It's been for sale for as long as I can remember.
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  #7643  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 6:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHickman View Post
It's in a great location, this can't be argued.


New facility or not the vast majority of children in the neighbourhood can't afford to play hockey to begin with. This is a non-starter. The new YMCA on Chuchill Boulevard will do much more to alleviate societal and financial problems than adding a few ice pads to the LBR.


With the amount of time taken up at Harbour Station with the Sea Dogs/Millrats/Concerts/Trade shows there's not a lot of ice time available at Harbour Station, particularly for larger tournaments. I only know of a few that have a handful of ice times there to begin with. The Howard Johnson and the Fort Howe hotel adjacent to the LBR are handy, but hotels uptown, west, and east are also available.


Nobody walks to hockey games to play. You have to carry gear. Like I said, children in the adjacent community can't really afford to play to begin with, and they'd be the ones walking. How much more would underground or multi-level parking necessitate in terms of funds rather than the costs of maintaining a larger open parking lot? I've never seen a hockey facility used on the municipal level with a parking garage, or underground parking. The costs associated don't make sense. Along with this, parking and carrying hockey gear isn't the same as just opening your car when you're at a mall parking lot. You need lots of room, particularly for those driving more than one hockey player. We're talking big trucks, vans, even buses. Neither Underground nor parking garages provide that much room and ease of movement.

Doing a real quick google maps check for the size of a lot needed you'll need 200x100 metres for four ice surfaces within a single complex and another 200x100 metres for surface parking (roughly the size of the facility in Moncton). The LBR property barely has enough space for the facility itself, let alone the parking.

Again, just looking real quick, the former Lantic Sugar Refinery site would be large enough to build a fourplex with all parking available. I'm sure the city and the port have better ideas of things to build there, however. The site where the current Gorman arena is currently located may be large enough, although there's lot clearing going on through much of the currently empty land, so I doubt the space will remain. My preference would be the Sugar Refinery Site as it's on the Uptown Peninsula, easy to reach, can be accessible by transit, has adequate space, and is an appealing location for those travelling from outside the city. That, and there's no sprawl involved.

There aren't a lot of locations where it could be built to be quite honest given size and nature. However, wherever it is built, it will provide economic spinoff. As long as you're bringing people into the city from away you're going to have an economic impact. They have to stay in hotels, they have to buy things to eat, and they have to drive around the city. These things usually occur on their own without direct planning involved (IE you don't have to build the fourplex in a heavily developed area and then surround it with stores. The horse(s) in this case can find water, and drink it too, without your guidance). If people are driving from anywhere more than an hour and a half away they aren't going to mind having to drive 5-10 minutes to their hotel/restaurant/mall/whatever. There are teams that pull one hour drives one-way weekly, a short drive to their hotel is the least of their worries.

When I was younger my Bantam B level provincials were held in Minto and all of the teams (8) had to stay in hotels in Fredericton and make the drive, and that's not a short drive. So, the hotels in Fredericton benefitted, the gas station(s) in Minto benefited, and the small family restaurant in Minto definitely benefited. Having to drive to and from was a pain but the local economy still gained even though we weren't actually staying in Minto. People have to make the drive from their hotel(s) to the rink(s) whether they like to or not. A five/ten minute drive within a city is nothing.



I completely agree with your sentiment, I just don't see the LBR as a viable option. The fourplex should be built somewhere within the central area of the city, and accessible by transit, and etc. etc. I'd fight just as hard against a fourplex being built out in the woods on Loch Lomond/Latimer Lake/Golden Grove Road as I am against you re: expansion of LBR. The LBR is a fine arena as it stands and shouldn't be messed with.
I think we're on the same page, I'm just far more optimistic about using an existing site I guess. The sugar refinery site is unfortunately not large enough. If you count the whole paved area down in the South End, then yes it would be, but 80% of that is actually the Lower Cove terminal, which the city does not own and the Port will not easily give up. Love the location though.

Same goes for the Millidgeville land. There is a large lot that the Gorman is already on, and it extends back to about double the currently built area, but all-told it's a small area that the city owns. The province would also have issues with building back there given that they looked at the site recently for wetland compensation (the city signed off on it being a restoration site with the additional of a possible outdoor skating surface).

Maybe it's time we put all that site-prep work on Long Wharf to good use
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  #7644  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 6:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregHickman View Post
The developer is from Toronto and, apparently, young and ambitious.

Really glad to see that property sold. It's been for sale for as long as I can remember.
Haha, frankly based on past experience in SJ, all 3 of those attributes scare me. You could basically translate it as, "the project will run out of money and he'll go back to Toronto in 18 months"

But I'm still hopeful nonetheless.
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  #7645  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 6:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
Haha, frankly based on past experience in SJ, all 3 of those attributes scare me. You could basically translate it as, "the project will run out of money and he'll go back to Toronto in 18 months"

But I'm still hopeful nonetheless.
I'm trying to remain optimistic here.
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  #7646  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 7:08 PM
nwalbert nwalbert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
Haha, frankly based on past experience in SJ, all 3 of those attributes scare me. You could basically translate it as, "the project will run out of money and he'll go back to Toronto in 18 months"

But I'm still hopeful nonetheless.
I cant say that I remember any projects running out of many and not being completed lately? Maybe your memory is longer than mine however.
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  #7647  
Old Posted Nov 5, 2012, 7:12 PM
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Originally Posted by GregHickman View Post
I'm trying to remain optimistic here.

As we should be... Lots of great things happening uptown.
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  #7648  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 3:28 PM
Ire Narissis Ire Narissis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
I think we're on the same page, I'm just far more optimistic about using an existing site I guess. The sugar refinery site is unfortunately not large enough. If you count the whole paved area down in the South End, then yes it would be, but 80% of that is actually the Lower Cove terminal, which the city does not own and the Port will not easily give up. Love the location though.

Same goes for the Millidgeville land. There is a large lot that the Gorman is already on, and it extends back to about double the currently built area, but all-told it's a small area that the city owns. The province would also have issues with building back there given that they looked at the site recently for wetland compensation (the city signed off on it being a restoration site with the additional of a possible outdoor skating surface).

Maybe it's time we put all that site-prep work on Long Wharf to good use
A fourplex on Long Wharf? An interesting thought. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they decide down the road to put a third cruise terminal building there.

Maybe they could combine them. Get off a cruise ship, walk through a hallway overlooking the ice surfaces. "Welcome to Saint John! Look, hockey!"
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  #7649  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 3:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ire Narissis View Post
A fourplex on Long Wharf? An interesting thought. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they decide down the road to put a third cruise terminal building there.

Maybe they could combine them. Get off a cruise ship, walk through a hallway overlooking the ice surfaces. "Welcome to Saint John! Look, hockey!"
Haha, I like it! Kind of like the windows that overlook the Aquatic Centre pool from the pedway system, only a lot less creepy.

I was only joking, but Long Wharf would be a pretty cool development with a multiplex, with some retail locations attached, a seasonal cruise ship facility and maybe some time down the road a ~100 unit residential development. Maybe we build a four-plex and one of the ice surfaces becomes a cruise ship vendor market space in the Summer when there is less demand for ice time. Just ideas.
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  #7650  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 5:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
Haha, I like it! Kind of like the windows that overlook the Aquatic Centre pool from the pedway system, only a lot less creepy.

I was only joking, but Long Wharf would be a pretty cool development with a multiplex, with some retail locations attached, a seasonal cruise ship facility and maybe some time down the road a ~100 unit residential development. Maybe we build a four-plex and one of the ice surfaces becomes a cruise ship vendor market space in the Summer when there is less demand for ice time. Just ideas.
If designed properly there would be enough room on Long Wharf. One concern would be the amount of traffic through weekends/evenings if there's four rinks and a fully operating cruise terminal next to each other. Hockey season and Cruise season don't overlap too much so that wouldn't be a large-large concern.

As Ire said, i'm afraid the city will probably like to keep that property cruise ship passenger friendly. We clearly don't do enough for them as is.
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  #7651  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 9:17 PM
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The Agenda for Council's meeting on the 13th has been published. Perhaps most interesting is the Exhibition Field House proposal:

http://www.saintjohn.ca/site/media/SaintJohn/Common%20Council%20Agenda%20Packet%202012-11-13.pdf

"Their recommendation was a 107,000 sq. ft. building which would contain a 66,000 sq., ft. full size indoor turf field and a walking track.
Cost: $14 Million.
Upgrades to existing buildings and landscape: $6 Million.
Association places estimate at $21 Million including land. The Association has committed to contributing the land plus $3 Million. They ask for the City of Saint John and surrounding communities to contribute $3 Million over three years as well as $7 Million each from the Province and Federal government over a three year period.

The Exhibition Association is also committed to funding any operating deficits for the facility." [Pages 10-11 of Council 2012-11-13 Agenda]

There are surveys attached asking residents whether they would support construction or not. Attached is a full information booklet from the Exhibition Association with a location map and more details on the financials. It would take roughly two and a half years to build.

Their argument is for sports tourism as well as giving soccer, rugby, lacrosse, and any other field sports players an opportunity to play indoors from October-May rather than having to travel to Fredericton/Moncton/Halifax to do so. For those curious, there are more registered soccer players in New Brunswick than hockey players.

- - - - -
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  #7652  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2012, 9:22 PM
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There is also a proposal for a continuous bike lane corridor stretching from Harbour Passage to UNBSJ/Regional Hospital.

This bike route would begin at the entrance to the Saint John Regional Hospital driveway on University Avenue, continue to Millidge Avenue, to Somerset Street, to Churchill Boulevard, to Valour Court, to Turnbull Place, to Harrington Street, to Adelaide Street, to Metcalf Street, to Simonds Street and end at the entrance to Harbour Passage on Hilyard Street. The route would include 2.7 KM of dedicated bike lanes and 1.8 KM of lanes to be shared by vehicles and bikes.

Any other details can be found in the agenda from my previous post.

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  #7653  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 12:10 AM
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Looks like some new residential development on Loch Lomond Rd, just past Ganong Rd when heading towards the airport.

...

hmm.. Flickr changed..

Last edited by DreDay; Nov 7, 2012 at 12:25 AM. Reason: pic issues
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  #7654  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 3:29 PM
Ire Narissis Ire Narissis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwajo View Post
Maybe we build a four-plex and one of the ice surfaces becomes a cruise ship vendor market space in the Summer when there is less demand for ice time. Just ideas.
Y'know, when you put it like that it actually starts to sound less crazy and more like a good idea. XD
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  #7655  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 6:40 PM
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It appears Aberdeen Subaru is finally moving out of their woefully inadequate facility at the end of Rothesay avenue - the "for lease" signs on the old Saint John Volkswagen are gone and there are two new Subarus with Aberdeen dealer plates sitting in the showroom.

Long overdue - their current facility is pathetic. Interesting timing though, as the other portion of their business, Suzuki, announced yesterday they were filing for bankruptcy and pulling out of North America.

As for what will happen with their current lot, I can easily see Fundy Honda expanding into that property.
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  #7656  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 6:56 PM
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Interesting timing though, as the other portion of their business, Suzuki, announced yesterday they were filing for bankruptcy and pulling out of North America.
USA. Not North America. See below;

The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, Nov. 7, 2012 12:08PM EST

RICHMOND HILL, Ont. -- It remains "business as usual" for Suzuki in Canada despite a decision by its counterpart in the United States to discontinue auto sales and seek court protection from its creditors while it focuses on other products.

"Suzuki Canada has no current plans to discontinue automobile sales in Canada nor are we contemplating any form of court-supervised restructuring as they have done in the United States," Suzuki Canada spokesman Bill Porter said in an interview Tuesday.

Porter said Suzuki Canada is emphasizing the fact that the two companies are not connected and that the news in the United States is not expected to have any impact on Suzuki's Canadian operations.
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  #7657  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 7:09 PM
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Originally Posted by michael_d40 View Post
USA. Not North America. See below;

The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, Nov. 7, 2012 12:08PM EST

RICHMOND HILL, Ont. -- It remains "business as usual" for Suzuki in Canada despite a decision by its counterpart in the United States to discontinue auto sales and seek court protection from its creditors while it focuses on other products.

"Suzuki Canada has no current plans to discontinue automobile sales in Canada nor are we contemplating any form of court-supervised restructuring as they have done in the United States," Suzuki Canada spokesman Bill Porter said in an interview Tuesday.

Porter said Suzuki Canada is emphasizing the fact that the two companies are not connected and that the news in the United States is not expected to have any impact on Suzuki's Canadian operations.
Oops, my bad.

Regardless, Suzuki isn't doing well. At all.

Although I doubt Aberdeen would take much of a hit if they lost them - it seems like their lot's ratio of Subaru to Suzukis is about 15:1
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  #7658  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 7:55 PM
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Long overdue - their current facility is pathetic.

I was thinking the same thing for both Aberdeen and Saint John VW. It's nice to see them both upgrade. Looks like SJVW moved into the old KIA building.. or was it Hyundai? I was also hoping that Aberdeen would be a Subaru/Volvo like in Freddy, but that might be asking too much..
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  #7659  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 8:30 PM
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N.B.L.C.C. North End,
I heard from reliable sources that the north end liquor store will be moveing into the old Zellers building,along with a Giant Tiger type store!

The old liquor store will be turned into a medicial clinic.
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  #7660  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2012, 8:54 PM
michael_d40 michael_d40 is offline
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Originally Posted by DreDay View Post
I was thinking the same thing for both Aberdeen and Saint John VW. It's nice to see them both upgrade. Looks like SJVW moved into the old KIA building.. or was it Hyundai? I was also hoping that Aberdeen would be a Subaru/Volvo like in Freddy, but that might be asking too much..

SJVW went to the old Hyundai space, as Hyundai moved to Westmorland Road.
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