Halifax Retail

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by q12

This to me sounds like Halifax is next whether they open around 2015 or a few years later.

I think the MYBOXBUYER service is helping to justify putting an IKEA BACK in Halifax to service Atlantic Canada's 2.4 Million residents (Double Manitoba's 1.2 Million).

The massive expansion that's about to start in Bayer's Lake would seem like the ideal spot to put IKEA.

ummm I don't think people from NL will head er on in to Halifax to pick up a piece of furniture from IKEA lol

We've talked about this in our threads and in their expansion policies now they will not open in cities of less than a million, Winnipeg being an exception however it's still a far cry from Halifax... unfortunatly they have this policy ..

I'm not sure the history of the Ikea in Halifax nor do i know what happened to it but I don't think we will be seeing one in Atlantic Canada any time soon unfortunatly,

We have a 5 billion dollar development on the side of St. John's coming up, the largest in eastern canada maybe you guys can head on in to our IKEA seeing there's a population of 2.4 million in atlantic Canada that can avail of it hehehe I'm kidding of course (not about the expansion but about IKEA)

[HalifaxRetales]

Elephant's Eye is closing

HMV on SGR has their store closing signs all up now

[q12]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

ummm I don't think people from NL will head er on in to Halifax to pick up a piece of furniture from IKEA lol

They don't have to head over, half of NL already lives in Halifax.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by q12

They don't have to head over, half of NL already lives in Halifax.

Wow what an arrogant and uneducated response..

[SignalHillHiker]

I agree with Jeddy that you probably can't include Newfoundland's population in the regional, Atlantic Canadian market for an IKEA store. I'm sure some will make the trip, but not enough to make any real difference. We're pretty self-sufficient when it comes to retail, simply out of necessity. It's too far and too expensive to go anywhere else except for the wealthiest residents. So we end up with a little better than cities our size elsewhere in the country, but certainly none of the more exclusive brands such as IKEA.

So you're definitely down to a market of 1.8 million. That's still pretty good. And the Winnipeg market is famously cheap so perhaps the Maritimes' 1.8 million could be a bigger draw than the Manitoba region. Can you include any of the United States as well? Are there rural areas nearby the Maritimes that people come from to shop in Halifax already?

I imagine IKEA might be a little concerned that most of the economic activity in Atlantic Canada is based in the province from which shoppers would have the most difficult time getting to Halifax. It certainly doesn't make sense according to their policies to open a store in St. John's (they need to maintain exclusivity, it's part of the brand. Though I imagine a furniture retailer like IKEA could do exceptionally well in any Canadian capital) - but, since we're the foundation of the regional boom right now, it may not make sense to open a store in Halifax either. Who knows. I'd love to sit in on these meetings when they discuss these things.

And as for half of N.L. in Halifax... untrue and irrelevant. Although, half my father's family lives there, ha! And I have many cousins who were born and raised there - a couple of them I'd even consider Nova Scotian.

[icetea93]

Winnipeg and Halifax are actually very similar in retail offering. They are both secondary markets for expansion. Size of the market isn't everything, especially when both are below 1 million. Income is a huge factor as well, amoung other things (population density of the maritimes definitely helps).

I agree that NFLD shouldn't be included in the maritime's drawing area. I think NFLDers shop here only when they happen to be here, not usually just to shop. Although I know some NFLDers that take yearly trips to Halifax to shop, so it does happen in small numbers.

I would say that Moncton has a greater retail offering than St. John's. I would also say that Regina and Saskatoon have better offerings than St. John's, so I don't think St. John's has good retail for its size... (Major national and international retailers)

[statbass]

There's actually an Ikea in Reykjavik, Iceland which has a population close to that of St. John's - they definitely don't have population-base to draw on. May be it's a Scandinavian thing??

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by statbass

There's actually an Ikea in Reykjavik, Iceland which has a population close to that of St. John's - they definitely don't have population-base to draw on. May be it's a Scandinavian thing??

I think it might be, and the population base thing is the internation (probably outside familiar scandinavian) countries policy.. companies do this sometimes.

Like I've said in the St. John's conversation about IKEA, Ive been in IKEAs in Sweden in cities much smaller than St. John's so it's kind of a stupid policy

[q12]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

Wow what an arrogant and uneducated response..

I hate to burst your bubble but the truth is you don't have to drive very far around here without seeing a Newfoundland window sticker or bumper sticker on a vehicle with NS plates.

Don't take offence I was just making a joke.

[MonctonRad]

I think it's a stretch to consider all 1.8M Maritimers as part of Halifax's natural catchment area. I think you could include all of NS's 900k and Halifax could also include PEI's 140k as a secondary market. The 200k in southeastern NB would also be a secondary market but the rest of NB would be more likely to go to Portland, Bangor or even Quebec City than Halifax.

As such, the Halifax market would more likely be 1.3M rather than 1.8M, and even there, the PEI and southeastern NB components of the Halifax catchment should be considered as a "retail tourism" market rather than as part of the principle market. About 90% of the retail that exists in Halifax also exists in Moncton and this would be where most of these people would tend to shop. A destination store like IKEA would certainly be a draw for these other areas, but aside from this, Halifax would not be a primary retail destination.

[jslath]

Originally Posted by q12

I hate to burst your bubble but the truth is you don't have to drive very far around here without seeing a Newfoundland window sticker or bumper sticker on a vehicle with NS plates.

Don't take offence I was just making a joke.

I always thought it was more like 1/3 Newfoundlanders and 1/3 Cape Bretoners (being from Cape Breton, I'm allowed to make fun of Capers and Newfoundlanders).

On another note: I've been hearing rumours that Sears in the Halifax Shopping Centre may be nearing it's final days. Nordstrom is now looking at up to nine locations (up from the original four) and buying more leases from Sears.

Hudson's Bay is also making a push for more upscale stores. I've been in a few of the newly renovated stores- so much nicer than what I was expecting. Since it closed on Mumford Road, Halifax is without a Hudson's Bay. Halifax Shopping Centre has moved to the more high end shopper, Nordstorm or Hudson's Bay would fit nicely.

Also, Quebec's Simons is finally expanding beyond Quebec- Halifax would be a nice market for them.

[icetea93]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think it's a stretch to consider all 1.8M Maritimers as part of Halifax's natural catchment area. I think you could include all of NS's 900k and Halifax could also include PEI's 140k as a secondary market. The 200k in southeastern NB would also be a secondary market but the rest of NB would be more likely to go to Portland, Bangor or even Quebec City than Halifax.

As such, the Halifax market would more likely be 1.3M rather than 1.8M, and even there, the PEI and southeastern NB components of the Halifax catchment should be considered as a "retail tourism" market rather than as part of the principle market. About 90% of the retail that exists in Halifax also exists in Moncton and this would be where most of these people would tend to shop. A destination store like IKEA would certainly be a draw for these other areas, but aside from this, Halifax would not be a primary retail destination.

I agree, except that this 10% of stores are all major destination stores that people used to drive many hours just get in the states. I'm talking about Apple, Hollister, Victoria's Secret, Lululemon, soon to be Forever 21, etc. That 10% changes absolutely everything in terms of where people will rather shop. I know plenty of people who used to drive 6-8+ hours to Maine for these stores, so I don't think people will shy from driving 3-5 hours to Halifax from southern NB for them. (Not to mention the upscale stores such as Banana Republic, Club Monaco, BCBG, etc that do not have locations elsewhere in the maritimes)

There are also many big box stores (BestBuy, Pro Hockey Life, etc) that do not exist outside of Halifax in the Maritimes, restaurants as well.

It's not the stores that Halifax shares with other Maritime cities that is the draw, it's what they do not share with other cities, and most of those stores are major destination stores.

However, this may only occur once in a while and, like you said, these people shouldn't be considered in Halifax's primary drawing area.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by icetea93

I would say that Moncton has a greater retail offering than St. John's. I would also say that Regina and Saskatoon have better offerings than St. John's, so I don't think St. John's has good retail for its size... (Major national and international retailers)

I imagine if we listed it all out, there's very little Moncton has that we don't, and a relatively significant amount we have that they don't. I haven't shopped in Regina or Saskatoon, however, so I don't know about those.

Even comparing with a larger city like Winnipeg, there were lots of shops we don't have here - such as Warehouse One, Giant Tiger, Domo, Safeway, etc. - but none for which we don't have an equivalent - such as Bluenotes, Dollarama, Orange Store, Dominion, etc.

For electronics stores, they had Future Shop and Best Buy. So do we. For hardware stores, they had Rona, Home Depot, McDiarmid, and others - we have Rona, Home Depot, Kent and others. For shopping, they have two main malls (Portage Place, St. Vital). For shopping, we have two main malls (Avalon, Village). They have all the clothing stores I like... RW&Co, Old Navy, Eddie Bauer, American Eagle and Urban Planet for a cheap fix. We have all those as well.

In my day-to-day life, there's never anything I want but can't get in St. John's. The only thing I miss from the mainland is cheap, Warehouse One jeans. They fit beautifully. But I can get jeans anyway.

[icetea93]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I imagine if we listed it all out, there's very little Moncton has that we don't, and a relatively significant amount we have that they don't. I haven't shopped in Regina or Saskatoon, however, so I don't know about those.

Even comparing with a larger city like Winnipeg, there were lots of shops we don't have here - such as Warehouse One, Giant Tiger, Domo, Safeway, etc. - but none for which we don't have an equivalent - such as Bluenotes, Dollarama, Orange Store, Dominion, etc.

For electronics stores, they had Future Shop and Best Buy. So do we. For hardware stores, they had Rona, Home Depot, McDiarmid, and others - we have Rona, Home Depot, Kent and others. For shopping, they have two main malls (Portage Place, St. Vital). For shopping, we have two main malls (Avalon, Village). They have all the clothing stores I like... RW&Co, Old Navy, Eddie Bauer, American Eagle and Urban Planet for a cheap fix. We have all those as well.

In my day-to-day life, there's never anything I want but can't get in St. John's. The only thing I miss from the mainland is cheap, Warehouse One jeans. They fit beautifully. But I can get jeans anyway.

Much of Winnipeg's destination retailers are in Polo Park Shopping Centre (Hollister, Michael Kors, Forever 21, Apple, soon to be Victoria's Secret). This is very similar to Halifax with Halifax Shopping Centre having almost all of the Halifax-exclusive (in the Maritimes) retailers. Mic Mac is very much the same as Champlain Place in Moncton and other malls like Regent Mall, McAlllister Place in terms of retailers. Save for a few stores such as the new Forever 21 opening Winter 2013. Some tourists don't even realize that Mic Mac is no longer the top mall in Halifax and so they don't see the major retailers that exist here.

When I said Moncton was better in terms of shopping I just meant that they have stores like H&M, Sephora, had Bath & Body Works for a year (at least) sooner than St. John's. Also Moxie's and big box stores.

But I see that St. John's has an American Apparel and BestBuy so maybe I am wrong, I'm not to familiar with what St. John's has, just what they don't because of the news headlines when stores open in Halifax or Moncton "first in Atlantic Canada", "second in Atlantic Canada".

[SignalHillHiker]

Here's the list of stores at Avalon, our largest and most popular mall:

http://www.shopavalonmall.com/store/

I don't know which, if any, of these stores would count as destination ones in the Maritimes.

(EDIT: And, don't forget, we're very independent when it comes to retail. Just because we don't have the same chain as exists on the mainland doesn't mean that niche isn't served here. Our equivalents may even be objectively better. Downtown St. John's has very few national chain stores - most are local. We may not have Moxie's, but we have easily comparable local versions, like Celtic Hearth. And many of the local shops, like Le Boudoir and the Booby Trap - basically our equivalents of Victoria's Secret - have won national and even major international awards. For example, Le Boudoir won in New York as the Best Lingerie Shop in North America: http://www.thetelegram.com/Business/2012....-John%26rsquos-underwear-store-on-top/1).

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Here's the list of stores at Avalon, our largest and most popular mall:

http://www.shopavalonmall.com/store/

I don't know which, if any, of these stores would count as destination ones in the Maritimes.

There's also many new stores and restaurants (Banana Republic being among them) opening in the near future in the Stavanger shopping area and the other bix box areas

[icetea93]

I haven't discussed local stores because every city has their own local stores and they can't really be compared (in terms of who has what).

Avalon Mall seems to have stores that also exist in the major malls in the Maritimes such as Champlain Place (Moncton), Regent Mall (Fredericton), McAllister Place (Saint John's) and our two major malls here (Mic Mac Mall and Halifax Shopping Centre). You seem to have a few stores that Moncton doesn't (yet) and Moncton has a few stores that you don't have (yet). I've always found St. John's and Moncton be a much more fair retail comparison than Halifax and any other Maritime city. Obviously Halifax will get big stores first, and will also get the stores that only intend to open one store in the entire region (ex: Apple and maybe eventually Ikea).

Both St. John's and Halifax have bright futures ahead of them (and Moncton as well for that matter), so I can see exciting retailers coming to all cities over the next few years and beyond

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by icetea93

Both St. John's and Halifax have bright futures ahead of them (and Moncton as well for that matter), so I can see exciting retailers coming to all cities over the next few years and buying

I hope so! It's also a type of employment very suited to our aging populations.

[jeddy1989]

Originally Posted by icetea93

I haven't discussed local stores because every city has their own local stores and they can't really be compared (in terms of who has what).

Avalon Mall seems to have stores that also exist in the major malls in the Maritimes such as Champlain Place (Moncton), Regent Mall (Fredericton), McAllister Place (Saint John's) and our two major malls here (Mic Mac Mall and Halifax Shopping Centre). You seem to have a few stores that Moncton doesn't (yet) and Moncton has a few stores that you don't have (yet). I've always found St. John's and Moncton be a much more fair retail comparison than Halifax and any other Maritime city. Obviously Halifax will get big stores first, and will also get the stores that only intend to open one store in the entire region (ex: Apple and maybe eventually Ikea).

Both St. John's and Halifax have bright futures ahead of them (and Moncton as well for that matter), so I can see exciting retailers coming to all cities over the next few years and beyond

I agree, Many exciting things to come

You have to keep in mind too that NL in just a decade went from (I beleive THEE) poorest province to one of the richest. along with that there now is a quite high median houshold income (even quite higher than other centres in Atlantic Canada) so there will be a lot of catch up happening and in Halifax for your geographic significance to all of the atlantic provinces and being a bit larger this is obviously an attraction too

Good times all round

[icetea93]

Originally Posted by jeddy1989

I agree, Many exciting things to come

You have to keep in mind too that NL in just a decade went from (I beleive THEE) poorest province to one of the richest. along with that there now is a quite high median houshold income (even quite higher than other centres in Atlantic Canada) so there will be a lot of catch up happening and in Halifax for your geographic significance to all of the atlantic provinces and being a bit larger this is obviously an attraction too

Good times all round

Agreed St. John's and Halifax are actually ahead of every major Canadian city in terms of median income except for Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton (and Saskatoona, Regina and Victoria if you consider them major) and are roughly equal to Hamilton.

I think this will continue to be the case!

I also remember reading somewhere that Halifax has the second youngest population of any major Canadian city in Canada (behind only Calgary). Not sure what the case is in St. John's but that is also a good sign!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/famil107a-eng.htm