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View Poll Results: Which of the designs would you like to see become the new Lansdowne 'Front Lawn'?
Option A: "One Park, Four Landscapes" 12 11.88%
Option B: "Win Place Show" 23 22.77%
Option C: "A Force of Nature" 14 13.86%
Option D: "All Roads Lead to Aberdeen" 16 15.84%
Option E: "The Canal Park in Ottawa" 18 17.82%
None of the above. Please keep my ashphalt. 18 17.82%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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  #2221  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
JFFournier JFFournier is offline
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The requirement for competitive bid solicitation for goods, services and construction may be waived under joint authority of the appropriate Director and Supply Management and replaced with negotiations by the Director and Supply Management under the following circum­stances:

...where there is an absence of competition for technical or other reasons and the goods, services or construction can only be supplied by a particular supplier and no alternative exists,
This is where you tell us that an alternative exists, lather, rinse, repeat. It doesn't. We all know it, and truthfully, I think this even includes you. You can not supply tenants to the stadium; at best you can claim to provide them with a place to play if they chose to, and even that is highly questionable.

No one is buying what you're selling, from general public to judge, and with construction ongoing while you pretend to be a player in this whole ting, I would think that would be clear even to you now.
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  #2222  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2012, 2:02 PM
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QUOTE=concernedottawa;5880549]Open procurement is based on best value for the taxpayer. More generalities that bely a misunderstanding of the complexities of the procurement process. Your statement would be more accurate if it said that procurement rules that provide multiple options to the procuring authority, including sole sourcing, are based on best value to the taxpayer.

The current sole source has a net loss of over $324M (Yes, provided that you completely ignore the benefits of the plan - a new urban park, a new stadium with three anchor tenants and a funding mechanism for its upkeep, new public spaces and new residences and services for the neighbourhood. If investment in amenities was a "net loss", then pretty much the whole city budget falls into that category.) , privatizes a public site (Yes, that is the talking point. I'd say that it opens a site that has been largely unusable by the public for 30 years and which has fallen into disrepair under city management, and creates a large new urban park that is in no way private.), promotes large chains over local business,(Really? The plan I've seen promotes both local business and businesses that are new to Ottawa. That one was developed through a collaborative effort with the support of the Glebe BIA, which is made up of local businsess. Your plan was developed how, exactly?) has no transport plan (this is one of many demonstrably false statements) , decreases public parking from the current 2,400 spots to 660 spots(Which represents a vast improvement in the use of the land, and is certainly better than your plan of 1200 surface spots) and adds over 850,000 sq ft of density to a landlocked pocket (Landlocked? Intensification can only take place on the waterfront? If so, does the canal count? Do you even read what you write?) and removes a popular soccer facility (I think you mean "moves" a soccer facility to a brand new,centrally-located stadium being built by the university, right on a rapid transit line. Based on other statements that you've made, I would have thought you'd favour that.).

For certain narrow reasons some see that as good value. (Forgive me for my narrow viewpoint. Not everyone can be an expert in public procurement, urban planning, commercial leasing, landscape architecture, stadium development, sports administration, public transportation and things being built across the street from your house.)

An open bid would however work for the benefit of the site and the public not narrow private interests. (Not in this case. This is another claim without evidence. As pointed out, there is no viable alternative that would pass even the most basic criteria for financing and sports management experience. Ergo, an open bid would lead to exactly the same result as we have now. But it would cost a great deal of money to get to the same point (against the public interest), it would re-start a process that has taken 5 years to complete, and there is absolutely no question that it would prevent Ottawa from hosting CFL football or soccer any time soon, or the Women's World Cup at all, as construction timelines are already pushed to the limit (again, against the public interest.)

This is a moral question, do you allow open competition? (Ah, morals. If the democratic and legal processes don't work for you, why not try to gain the moral high ground? Apparently by spamming every website you can find, for years on end, and telling them that this is a moral question, and they are morally wrong, I suppose.)

Particualry on an historic public site.

And a legal one. (How many courts have to rule against you before you accept that your legal argument is not a good one? Forgive me if I question your legal acumen, but you seem to be a heavy user of the court system to settlle your disputes, and I see no evidence of you ever having won a single court case. Perhaps it's time to get some professional legal advice and listen to what you are hearing. If you had, you would have been told to stop posting public commentary about your case on every site in Ottawa. Which would have been good advice, as you may have noticed that your public statements played a role in having your first case dismissed.)

Taken from the City of Ottawa website ( www.ottawa.ca see Procurement By-Law 50 )

SHORT TITLE

1. This By-law may be cited as the "Purchasing By-law".
PURPOSE

2. (1) The objective of this By-law respecting procurement is to obtain best value when purchasing goods, construction and services for the City while treating all suppliers equitably.
(2) The guiding procurement principle is that purchases be made using a competitive process that is open, transparent and fair to all suppliers.
(3) These objectives and principles are reflected in this By-law.[/QUOTE]

Please stop posting the same general statements over and over. If your goal is to be immensely tiresome and irritating, then you have reached your goal. But I think you are well aware that your comments are not convincing anyone that you are right, and they divert from the positive discussion that is intended on this board. As was pointed out many times, you have a thread to discuss your personal views on this - please use it.

You lecture people on morals and then continuously break the rules of this site and the most basic social conventions by continuing this campaign of irritating anyone possible. We've been through this dance a hundred times. You are welcome to participate in the discussion of the plan that was approved and is being built as we speak, but if you can't do that, I'm asking you nicely to please show some maturity and stop posting these missives.

Last edited by phil235; Oct 26, 2012 at 3:05 PM.
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  #2223  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2012, 3:54 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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This is a common mistake repeated.

The three sports tenants are no different than tenants in the past or currently be they football, or baseball, or hockey or even derby car racing and soccer.

They play at a publicly owned or "City of Ottawa" stadium.

There is no basis for sole source. This is underlined by FIFA 2015, the stadium is a municipal requirement for a multitude
of events and as such must be tendered for open bid, regardless of whether an alternative has been presented or not.

This is the heart of the matter, not to repeat but clearly clarification is required for some.

The current development is, from this writers point of view, untenable. This is a viewpoint that has been supported.

Whether it goes ahead or not is still uncertain, it will depend on whether or not the Supreme Court intervenes.
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  #2224  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2012, 4:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
This is a common mistake repeated.

The three sports tenants are no different than tenants in the past or currently be they football, or baseball, or hockey or even derby car racing and soccer.

They play at a publicly owned or "City of Ottawa" stadium.

There is no basis for sole source. This is underlined by FIFA 2015, the stadium is a municipal requirement for a multitude
of events and as such must be tendered for open bid, regardless of whether an alternative has been presented or not.

This is the heart of the matter, not to repeat but clearly clarification is required for some.

The current development is, from this writers point of view, untenable. This is a viewpoint that has been supported.

Whether it goes ahead or not is still uncertain, it will depend on whether or not the Supreme Court intervenes.
Please give the procurement issues a rest. You have no credentials to be lecturing anyone on procurement. You have made your arguments before the court and not surprisingly, they have failed repeatedly. I again ask you to take your unwanted commentary to the proper thread, and I wish you godspeed in your Supreme Court mission.
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  #2225  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2012, 5:05 PM
ThaLoveDocta ThaLoveDocta is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Please give the procurement issues a rest. You have no credentials to be lecturing anyone on procurement. You have made your arguments before the court and not surprisingly, they have failed repeatedly. I again ask you to take your unwanted commentary to the proper thread, and I wish you godspeed in your Supreme Court mission.
This ill informed commentary is especially rich, given the breadth of knowledge on this very subject from a multitude of individuals registered here whom are employed directly in the procurement, supply, and evaluation sides of these arguments.
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  #2226  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2012, 6:54 AM
bartlebooth bartlebooth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
Open procurement is based on best value for the taxpayer.

The current sole source has a net loss of over $324M, privatizes
a public site, promotes large chains over local business, has no
transport plan, decreases public parking from the current 2,400
spots to 660 spots and adds over 850,000 sq ft of density to a
landlocked pocket and removes a popular soccer facility.
Are you aware that NBBJ (the architecture firm responsible for the stadium design and costing of the LPC plan) is one of the largest architectural 'chains' on the planet with offices all over the world (excluding Canada)?
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  #2227  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2012, 4:04 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by bartlebooth View Post
Are you aware that NBBJ (the architecture firm responsible for the stadium design and costing of the LPC plan) is one of the largest architectural 'chains' on the planet with offices all over the world (excluding Canada)?
NBBJ Architecture Canada Inc is licensed for BC and in Ontario by the OAA.

They are regarded as stadium and public site experts.

No other firms could participate ( over 15 approached, including Ottawa ) due to conflict.

Last edited by concernedottawa; Oct 27, 2012 at 4:25 PM.
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  #2228  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2012, 4:12 PM
Umpaidh Umpaidh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
NBBJ Canada Inc is based out of Vancouver and licensed for Ontario by the OAA.

They are regarded as stadium and public site experts.

No other firms could participate ( over 15 approached, including Ottawa ) due to conflict.
Actually, NBBJ Canada is part of their Seattle office.
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  #2229  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2012, 4:28 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Umpaidh View Post
Actually, NBBJ Canada is part of their Seattle office.
Correction noted above.

NBBJ Architecture Canada Inc is licensed for BC and in Ontario by the OAA.

Their office is in Seattle.
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  #2230  
Old Posted Oct 27, 2012, 4:30 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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RFP for new 33,000 seat stadium for Saskatchewan Roughriders to be announced soon.

To feature fan cover and retractable roof. Located near rail yards.

Concept for RFP may be seen here:
http://www.reginarevitalization.ca/stadium-project/

News release seen here:
http://www.riderville.com/article/concept-designs-unveiled-for-new-stadium

Funding breakdown:
Provincial loan to City $100M or 36%
Provincial grant $80M or 29%
Municipal debt $73M or 26%
Roughriders team $25M or 9%

Cost breakdown seen here:
http://www.reginarevitalization.ca/stadium-project/2012/10/stadium-construction-funding/

Last edited by concernedottawa; Oct 27, 2012 at 4:47 PM.
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  #2231  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2012, 7:09 PM
JFFournier JFFournier is offline
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Is it OK if I post about the plan actually being implemented?

Quote:
Increase in activities next week at Lansdowne

In the next week, the contractor, Pomerleau, will begin several new activities at Lansdowne. These include:
  • Additional fencing to secure the site which will close public parking along Bank Street
  • Remaining trees along Bank Street and near the stadium will be removed to allow for the parking garage excavation
  • Work on the North side stands, including roof demolition and removal of the seats, will begin
  • Excavation for the South side stands will start
  • The Eddie Friel building will be demolished
  • An on-site concrete plant, which will reduce truck traffic to the site, will be set up
  • Dog park users will continue to have access to parking, but the area will be expanded to include parking space for construction employees
  • All of these activities will be contained within the site, and should not create disruptions for residents.

If you have questions about specific work, please contact the City of Ottawa at [email protected] or call 3-1-1.
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  #2232  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2012, 7:49 PM
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concernedottawa, anymore posts that don't involve discussion of the plan that is being implemented and you are suspended. Enough.
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  #2233  
Old Posted Oct 28, 2012, 11:39 PM
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Residential Plan

Not to go off topic by discussing the actual plan but..

Anybody go to the open house for the Condo launch?

I would love to see some of the more detailed plans for the condo building and townhouses.

Thanks
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  #2234  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 1:49 AM
JFFournier JFFournier is offline
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  #2235  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 2:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JFFournier View Post
I had to re-post some of these pics. Some great detail that we haven't seen yet in the renderings! I especially like the model of the whole site. It will be 1 million times better than the current state of the site. Our children will look at old pics of Lansdowne and shiver at the underuse of the land currently.

from http://mortgageinottawa.com/







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  #2236  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 7:59 PM
concernedottawa concernedottawa is offline
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If this is allowed to proceed children will look and wonder why it is called a public site and lament the loss of such a missed opportunity to simply beautify the site and keep it public, ( including a stadium ), and viable as great cities do all the time.

Replacing public interests with private ones without due process is nothing to celebrate.

Let us hope learned minds will agree that due process is important.
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  #2237  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 8:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
If this is allowed to proceed children will look and wonder why it is called a public site and lament the loss of such a missed opportunity to simply beautify the site and keep it public, ( including a stadium ), and viable as great cities do all the time.

Replacing public interests with private ones without due process is nothing to celebrate.

Let us hope learned minds will agree that due process is important.
Ah, the children. Forgot about the poor children. Just to be clear, do you mean the ones playing in the new urban park, the ones watching a movie in the new theatre or the ones attending a sporting event in the new stadium? Or maybe the ones who were children when this debate started, and are now 47 years old?

P.S. - Go have a look at the site. It is being allowed to proceed.

Last edited by phil235; Oct 29, 2012 at 8:25 PM.
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  #2238  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 8:05 PM
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^^You mean a public space with no public in it vs. a "private" space with a public park and a number of other amenities open to the public in which to gather, relax, shop, be entertained, and live? Yes, you're right -- that last option does sound terrible.
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  #2239  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 8:26 PM
JFFournier JFFournier is offline
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Originally Posted by concernedottawa View Post
Let us hope learned minds will agree that due process is important.
Yeah, not like those dumbass judges that keep blocking your way, and that of the FoL...What do THEY know...

As a kid, I wasn't too concerned about public vs private. Just where I could go and have fun.

Looking back now, it's kind of a pisser that I was kicked off the field a few times, even though no one was using it. I was no more able to use the public field then than I will now, I suspect.

Last edited by JFFournier; Oct 29, 2012 at 8:37 PM.
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  #2240  
Old Posted Oct 29, 2012, 8:36 PM
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For those of you not about to be banned from this site (again), does anyone know what the configuration of the stadium will be for soccer? Are they planning movable seating behind the nets to make the stadium more intimate, or will the ends be open?
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