The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[Ire Narissis]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The roundabout at Hall's Creek (Champlain Place) is referred to by the locals as a "traffic circle". It probably is not a traditional roundabout in that the entering speed is typically 70-80 km/hr and the circle is 2-3 lanes wide. If you enter the traffic circle from Veteran's Highway, the outside lane leads directly to Wheeler Blvd and you don't have to yield right of way. The inside lane however merges into the middle lane on the roundabout and yielding is mandatory. It doesn't take too long to get used to it, but I imagine the traffic flow drives the tourists crazy!

I go through there only once a year for the Crystal Palace Lego Fair in February, and I can confirm that it drives visitors crazy. I always wind up in the wrong lane and have to illegally cross a solid white to get to the exit I need. I wish there was better signage to help you choose the correct lane sooner.

[Whaler]

Just a little known fact: Our mayor at the time pissed off Irving and therefore Saint John lost the Diaper plant and the expansion of the tissue mill. This expansion would have taken the Simms brush factory over (Irving owns this now) and moved the route off the falls bridge and taken it through the old mental hospital land and made the intersection there. There would have been traffic lights and etc. and a new intersection and Simm's corner would be completly gone! So a big thank you goes out to Shirley!!

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by ErickMontreal

Saint John Port studies cruise ship industry expansion
Province paying $50,000 to study 'home port' designation

OK, time for a rant...

This is EXACTLY the kind of ass-backwards thinking and reckless spending that taxpayers complain about. Somebody who knows somebody at government is going to be paid $50,000 to create a study to see if Saint John could compete with the likes of New York, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Rome, San Diego, or Hong Kong...all relatively well-known cruise ship hubs. Really? You can't figure that one out without a study?

A year later someone will have a 200 page binder with recommendations. Everyone will do a photo-opp and smile, then up on the archive shelf it will go...to collect dust...probably a few books away from the Energy Hub plan.

Why does everything in this province involve studies to find answers to things a two-year old could figure out? Let me save you some money. Can Saint John be a major cruise ship port like Miami? The answer is NO. Why not put that $50,000 into facade and signage improvements for local businesses along Water Street? Something that has a tangible direct impact on the businesses in the area. Maybe better sidewalks? Or perhaps a gourmet food truck start-up fund. Or maybe top it up and make it a matching funds program for businesses locally to be encouraged to improve their busienss marketing??

But another study? Please.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

OK, time for a rant...

This is EXACTLY the kind of ass-backwards thinking and reckless spending that taxpayers complain about. Somebody who knows somebody at government is going to be paid $50,000 to create a study to see if Saint John could compete with the likes of New York, Miami, Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, Rome, San Diego, or Hong Kong...all relatively well-known cruise ship hubs. Really? You can't figure that one out without a study?

A year later someone will have a 200 page binder with recommendations. Everyone will do a photo-opp and smile, then up on the archive shelf it will go...to collect dust...probably a few books away from the Energy Hub plan.

Why does everything in this province involve studies to find answers to things a two-year old could figure out? Let me save you some money. Can Saint John be a major cruise ship port like Miami? The answer is NO. Why not put that $50,000 into facade and signage improvements for local businesses along Water Street? Something that has a tangible direct impact on the businesses in the area. Maybe better sidewalks? Or perhaps a gourmet food truck start-up fund. Or maybe top it up and make it a matching funds program for businesses locally to be encouraged to improve their busienss marketing??

But another study? Please.

My sentiments also. I can picture smaller boats (like the one that visited from the Great Lakes carrying about 120 people) taking cruises up the Saint John river (if they can get up falls at slack tide) but to suggest it can be a hub for big lines is crazy. Cruise line hubs have cheap airfare and air competition going into their hubs - who is going to spend $800 to $1500 to fly into Saint John served by one or maybe two airlines? Because when a person books a cruise the cruise fare is only half the equation.

It makes we wonder if this is kinda a publicity tactic?? Unless we are all confused and what they mean to say in "hub" is that cruise lines can sell itineraries to people whereas they have the option of starting their cruise in Saint John, joining existing itineraries. Otherwise IMO they are just not being realistic.

Here's an idea instead of spending $50,000 simply call up the president of Carnival cruise lines with the idea and you'll be sure to get an honest answer - after price of call you save $49,997

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

My sentiments also. I can picture smaller boats (like the one that visited from the Great Lakes carrying about 120 people) taking cruises up the Saint John river (if they can get up falls at slack tide)

There's no docking suitable for cruise ships anywhere on the river. It's a wonderful river to cruise but completely inadequate for use by larger vessels.

There's also no docking immediately adjacent to Reversing Falls for vessels waiting for slack tide, both small and large vessels. Market Slip isn't exactly the nicest place to tie-up a million dollar boat. It'd be nice if a floating dock was installed along Harbour Passage on Chesley Drive but, alas, pipe dreams.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

My sentiments also. I can picture smaller boats (like the one that visited from the Great Lakes carrying about 120 people) taking cruises up the Saint John river (if they can get up falls at slack tide) but to suggest it can be a hub for big lines is crazy. Cruise line hubs have cheap airfare and air competition going into their hubs - who is going to spend $800 to $1500 to fly into Saint John served by one or maybe two airlines? Because when a person books a cruise the cruise fare is only half the equation.

It makes we wonder if this is kinda a publicity tactic?? Unless we are all confused and what they mean to say in "hub" is that cruise lines can sell itineraries to people whereas they have the option of starting their cruise in Saint John, joining existing itineraries. Otherwise IMO they are just not being realistic.

Here's an idea instead of spending $50,000 simply call up the president of Carnival cruise lines with the idea and you'll be sure to get an honest answer - after price of call you save $49,997

Every couple of years Aquila Tours sells packages that allow Saint John pax to travel on the Queen Mary 2, and start their trip FROM Saint John. Everytime this service has been offered, the outcome has been positive.

The "Home Port" designation, is simply going to allow people from Eastern Canada to get on/off the vessel from Saint John on a regular basis.

And come on guys, ease the bitching over $50k. It's 50K !! It's not like we are talking millions here.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

And come on guys, ease the bitching over $50k. It's 50K !! It's not like we are talking millions here.

Not to jump on your back, but 50K can go a long way in a place like Saint John.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by GregHickman

Not to jump on your back, but 50K can go a long way in a place like Saint John.

The provincial government will be investing $50,000 into a feasibility study to see if our port could be a home port for cruise ships.

Where in that excerpt does it say that it's coming from the city budget for any Saint John repairs? It doesn't.

If the PROVINCIAL GOVERNMENT want's to throw some money at the possibility of this new venture, let them.

But instead, do you propose we just continue to bitch about them investigating the possibility of the new venture, have them bail on the idea, and let them give the money for a study in Moncton instead?

Of course not. Because that would just be ridiculous.

So yeah... people need to calm down and stop the bitching and complaining about every little thing.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

But instead, do you propose we just continue to bitch about them investigating the possibility of the new venture, have them bail on the idea, and let them give the money for a study in Moncton instead?

I can assure you that Moncton has no aspirations on becoming a hub for the cruise ship industry.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I can assure you that Moncton has no aspirations on becoming a hub for the cruise ship industry.

I meant for any type of study.

[hebertovich]

I drive it every day, and I truly, TRULY, feel sorry for people who aren't from here who have to drive through that hell... I swear some people just close their eyes and hope for the best.

Your supposed to keep your eyes open ?

[mylesmalley]

The great thing about the Halls Creek traffic circle is also the worst drawback. If you're in the inside lane on Wheeler and headed toward Shediac, you never have to merge with anyone. If you're in the Westbound lanes on the 15 headed toward Wheeler, you never have to merge with anyone. This makes the circle basically a non-issue if you know you plan on staying in the same lane.

The problem is if you happen to want to switch to a different highway. It can be a real hassle to actually get into a different lane because you frequently have to cross over these 'through' lanes. In that sense, it isn't a true roundabout like the one at the causeway. In a traditional circle, if you were coming from the airport and wanted to turn southbound onto Paul, you'd merge once into the circle and exit normally once you've looped around the circle. Once you get in, you have the right of way. As it stands right now, you have to merge once to get into the circle, then merge again because the road narrows to 1 lane, then merge into a through-lane of vehicles that have never needed to slow down at all (so they're frequently going 80km/h). Then you have something like 100 meters to change into the far right lane (which is a through-lane from a different highway altogether) to catch the exit.

So yeah. Three merges and a tight lane-change. And if you miss that exit, it's a 10km detour to Dieppe Blvd before you can turn around. Oh, and that gets you right back to where you started from.

I happen to really like the traffic circle for most situations. If you're going in the right directions, it's very quick and efficient. But if you happen to need to go to a few specific ramps it can be a real nightmare even for a local. I can only imagine why visitors find it so difficult.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

So yeah... people need to calm down and stop the bitching and complaining about every little thing.

People need to calm down? Dude...lol. Relax.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

OK, time for a rant...

Why does everything in every province/city/etc involve studies to find answers to things a two-year old could figure out? Let me save you some money. Can Saint John be a major cruise ship port like Miami? The answer is NO. Why not put that $50,000 into facade and signage improvements for local businesses along Water Street? Something that has a tangible direct impact on the businesses in the area. Maybe better sidewalks? Or perhaps a gourmet food truck start-up fund. Or maybe top it up and make it a matching funds program for businesses locally to be encouraged to improve their busienss marketing??

But another study? Please.

Fixed that for you, unfortunately. It's like when cities pay some consultant half a million dollars to come up with a slogan that doesn't even get used due it being so bad.

[kwajo]

I hope you weren't referring to this...

[Gnarly]

mmmm...I have to jump in here....some of the recent comments re: the cruise ship home port...make my blood boil....(please note, nobody said 'Hub'). I am amazed at the number of negative comments, about an idea, that could provide jobs for the port, jobs for the airport, jobs for the hotels, and on and on. What is the matter with you people...god.....why are so many people against progress.....here's an idea...how about thinking positive and making Saint John better, instead of putting road blocks in the way of every opportunity. I recently saw a comment on here, where the person said...'I don't give a dam about the cruise passagers'....my god...what an idiot...something that creates a lot of jobs, and some nut is against it!...go figure....no wonder Saint John has not grown, but there is still time to turn it around, before you know it they will be digging a canal and building a port in 'blowhard central', and we all know where that is!

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by Gnarly

mmmm...I have to jump in here....some of the recent comments re: the cruise ship home port...make my blood boil....(please note, nobody said 'Hub'). I am amazed at the number of negative comments, about an idea, that could provide jobs for the port, jobs for the airport, jobs for the hotels, and on and on. What is the matter with you people...god.....why are so many people against progress.....here's an idea...how about thinking positive and making Saint John better, instead of putting road blocks in the way of every opportunity. I recently saw a comment on here, where the person said...'I don't give a dam about the cruise passagers'....my god...what an idiot...something that creates a lot of jobs, and some nut is against it!...go figure....no wonder Saint John has not grown, but there is still time to turn it around, before you know it they will be digging a canal and building a port in 'blowhard central', and we all know where that is!

Well said!

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by Gnarly

mmmm...I have to jump in here....some of the recent comments re: the cruise ship home port...make my blood boil....(please note, nobody said 'Hub'). I am amazed at the number of negative comments, about an idea, that could provide jobs for the port, jobs for the airport, jobs for the hotels, and on and on. What is the matter with you people...god.....why are so many people against progress.....

Gnarly: My comments are not AGAINST progress. My comments are that given the government's track record of spending money on studies and not implementing any recommendations, this is a waste of money. If it is simply the option of adding the ability to add ticketed customers from the port on a circuited route, that is one thing. I could see the money spent for such a study but again, given the track record of past studies I don't see this leading to any "progressive" implementations.

Now, to address the other comment regarding $50K not being very much money. It starts to add up when you have 50K here, 100K there, and 90K over somewhere else for multiple "studies" within a year. In business, a feasibility study (like this) is normally comissioned once a strong interest in a project and realistic expectations have been informally developed. It is more of a final round to make sure it would proceed and the steps that would be needed to implement. The problem in NB is that so many of these studies are comissioned each year from blank ideas that money is spent and then nothing is actually developed. They look good as sound bites but and the findings may be valuable - BUT...if nothing results from the study then it is a waste of money.

Given the scope of what they are trying to "study" here, my argument was that funds (in a province where every penny needs to be tightened and accounted for) would be better allocated towards items with an immediate impact on local business and the economy. ...and NOT creating a binder of ideas that require more money to implement the province simply does not have the resources to take on.

Not against progress...just advocating more sensible results-driven progress.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by kwajo

I hope you weren't referring to this...

No I wasn't, I wasn't actually sure what NB's slogan was. What do people think of it? Also look on the bright side, your city flag isn't this:

source: wikipedia

[cdnguys]

In regards to these $50K studies - sure its not a lot of money. I feel negative about it because I know of a woman that her career was "seeking" out government grants just like this and she "consulted" and I use that term lightly - she even bragged about it and joked about easy money. So yes it leaves a bad taste in my mouth even if it may not be in the same category.