Winnipeg Construction

[jmt18325]

Manitoba actually doesn't have a large government. Per capita spending is at the lower end, but yes, above Ontario.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by Shinook

Wow. What doom and gloom. I guess this city is done for. Last one out shut off the light!

I don't know if what is being said is all doom and gloom.

I think that if tax dollars are going to be used to rescue downtown, we could get a bigger bang for our buck by improving transit, policing, and creating tax incentives for private developers to lure them back.

Or, for the same money we could fill every empty heritage building with a government office.


Like Andy said, I don't know if the Hydro building has been a 'home run' for redevelopment.

Sure it's shiny and new, but I don't think it's having as much of a spillover effect as politicians claim. Is it better than a half dozen suburban offices? Yes.

That said, I think we could have done something else for the same money that would have done a much better job of promoting free enterprise in the surrounding area.

[ctochico]

Originally Posted by Only The Lonely..

I don't know if what is being said is all doom and gloom.

I think that if tax dollars are going to be used to rescue downtown, we could get a bigger bang for our buck by improving transit, policing, and creating tax incentives for private developers to lure them back.

Or, for the same money we could fill every empty heritage building with a government office.


Like Andy said, I don't know if the Hydro building has been a 'home run' for redevelopment.

Sure it's shiny and new, but I don't think it's having as much of a spillover effect as politicians claim. Is it better than a half dozen suburban offices? Yes.

That said, I think we could have done something else for the same money that would have done a much better job of promoting free enterprise in the surrounding area.

i've been to rudy's a few times...and everytime im there, its always packed...

not too sure what else is in there as far as retail spaces, but it brings "some" people DT

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Is anyone seeing the 2,000 hydro employees out and about at lunch, buying up a storm at local retailers, as was predicted? How is that going? We always hear these things said before the projects, but there's never any/much follow-up.

I don't get this. There are 2000 workers in that building (give or take), a good chunk of those are taking transit (if not the majority) and supporting that service, they are walking to and from the building from wherever providing eyes on the street and we question that? What kind of follow up do you want? Surveys asking where they go for lunch and how much they spend? Who cares. Hydro needed an office. Downtown was the place to go. Sure it's just an office. It is, just, an office. I just don't get why we question the impact. Sure there's an impact, and sure it's positive. If it were solely a make work project that would be another story.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by flatlander

I don't get this. There are 2000 workers in that building (give or take), a good chunk of those are taking transit (if not the majority) and supporting that service, they are walking to and from the building from wherever providing eyes on the street and we question that? What kind of follow up do you want? Surveys asking where they go for lunch and how much they spend? Who cares. Hydro needed an office. Downtown was the place to go. Sure it's just an office. It is, just, an office. I just don't get why we question the impact. Sure there's an impact, and sure it's positive. If it were solely a make work project that would be another story.

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Hydro building has made an impact of some sort, I think the statement is that when it comes "bang for your buck" the Hydro building money could have been better spent on something else.

I for one would rather see private development with incentives by government (Mainly TIFs) in our downtown than one government building being erected. It's hard to increase tax base when everything is tax exempt because it's government owned.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Manitoba actually doesn't have a large government.

Just close your eyes and repeat that to yourself over and over. There. Feels good.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Is anyone seeing the 2,000 hydro employees out and about at lunch, buying up a storm at local retailers, as was predicted? How is that going? We always hear these things said before the projects, but there's never any/much follow-up.

They usually make of at least half of the line up at Subway and fill up most of Marcello's and Rudy's at lunch.

They are required to always wear their ID in the office, so they are quite easy to spot.

[OmarVP]

Just as I write a Habitat for Humanity truck is taking stuff out of Restaurant Dubrovnik.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Just close your eyes and repeat that to yourself over and over. There. Feels good.

I will:

http://i.thestar.com/images/04/ad/5af3171743ca892f7f5f14a4ff7d.jpg

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by flatlander

What kind of follow up do you want? Surveys asking where they go for lunch and how much they spend?

Yes, absolutely. How do we figure out if compelling government offices to move downtown is worth the expense if we don't gather data about what it accomplishes for the surrounding area when we have a concrete example to look at? This isn't just some random fascination of mine; it was one of the benefits that was trumpeted for having a downtown location in the first place. I'm not saying there aren't benefits, or even major benefits -- I'm just saying that I'm not hearing about them despite the fact that they (or the prospect of them) were used to create support for the expenditure of a lot of public money. I would be interested to know, for example, how many active businesses are located within a certain radius of the Hydro Building today as opposed to the day the project was announced -- same with MTS Centre. I think there may be more in each case, but I'm not sure. I'd like to know.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Andy6

I look around downtown and wonder how a province that is half the size of the city of Toronto could require so much government.

There is sort of a baseline staff that any provincial government is going to need to get done the things provincial governments must do. With less population to spread that out, the ratio of government employees to non-government employees goes up.

In addition to that, Manitoba really only has Winnipeg as a location for those government offices. Ontario has three cities larger than Winnipeg (including the Federal capital where departments can have "synergy" with their federal counterparts, if governments even do that), and followed the national trend of taking entire departments and basing them in cities other than the capital (like the Ministry of Colleges and Universities being based in Thunder Bay, or Northern Development and Mines being based in North Bay; Revenue Canada operates primarily out of Sudbury, so all Ontarians filing taxes send their forms there, and its where government cheques come from.)

Manitoba lacks other cities to spread the government offices out to, so they're all clumped in downtown Winnipeg. Imagine how Regina's skyline would look if all of Saskatoon's government offices were located there.

[Riverman]

RRC is presently in serious financial trouble (relatively I admit) with an $11 million deficit due to the fact they have entered the questionable business of downtown revitilization.

My journalist friend refers to this as "mission creep".

[JamieDavid Exchange]

I hope there's an actual construction news release soon so we can get back on forum topic. And I hope it's not a government project! LOL. (I hope it's something other than MPI lots or Convention Centre cause both are government involved)

Isn't Heritage Landing, D Condos, Streetside, Sunstone, Stantec, and ALT ALL private investment in our downtown as of recent? So, whats wrong with throwing some government projects in there as well??

[steveosnyder]

Does anyone know what is going on on McDermot between Man and Rorie? It looks like some renewal in front of the old coyote cafe / pockets, but it almost looks like it is linked to the building.

[Bdog]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Yes, absolutely. How do we figure out if compelling government offices to move downtown is worth the expense if we don't gather data about what it accomplishes for the surrounding area when we have a concrete example to look at? This isn't just some random fascination of mine; it was one of the benefits that was trumpeted for having a downtown location in the first place. I'm not saying there aren't benefits, or even major benefits -- I'm just saying that I'm not hearing about them despite the fact that they (or the prospect of them) were used to create support for the expenditure of a lot of public money. I would be interested to know, for example, how many active businesses are located within a certain radius of the Hydro Building today as opposed to the day the project was announced -- same with MTS Centre. I think there may be more in each case, but I'm not sure. I'd like to know.

There was an article in the Free Press maybe a week or two ago. They talked to restaurant owners all around the MTS centre and most said it (and the presence of the NHL) greatly contributed to their success.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by vid

Ontario has three cities larger than Winnipeg

Toronto, Ottawa...?

Hamilton is smaller than Winnipeg now.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by Riverman

RRC is presently in serious financial trouble (relatively I admit) with an $11 million deficit due to the fact they have entered the questionable business of downtown revitilization.

My journalist friend refers to this as "mission creep".

marty gold?

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by Riverman

RRC is presently in serious financial trouble (relatively I admit) with an $11 million deficit due to the fact they have entered the questionable business of downtown revitilization.

My journalist friend refers to this as "mission creep".

On the one hand, building the original downtown campus was a GREAT movie for RRC. It's a nice campus, it looks great on brochures, and they got to revitalize that area and maybe even take advantage of some heritage tax breaks (I can't remember if they did or not)

On the other hand, the Royal Bank building took forever and was way overbudget. Was it a bad idea to try to duplicate the success of the downtown campus and expand? Not necessarily. Were they wrong to try? Not based on their previous success and perhaps ultimate goal to take over that section of the exchange district.

Hopefully it all works out Seems to be almost complete, in any case. $11 million is a lot of money, but that's what, 30 textbooks?

[1ajs]

the deficit is also related to some other projects at the notre dame campus

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Toronto, Ottawa...?

Hamilton is smaller than Winnipeg now.

Mississauga? It is larger than Winnipeg.