Phoenix Development News (3)

[PHXistheBEST]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Good-ish news: it does look like one of the hotels won't be knocked over. The red brick one that says "Hotel" is still standing. I dont' recall if thats the St James or the Madison, I can never keep them straight.



Good for you Me not buying my 10 or so tickets a year doesn't make a dent, but that sort of thing will.

I know David Stern has apparently been asking Colangelo to get back into ownership as Stern dislikes the current crop of NBA owners. In my fantasy world Sarver is unable to recover financially from the recession and has to sell the team back to Jerry, who oversees it in a care-taker role until a deeper pocketed owner can be found.

Wow...well clearly these hotels are so historic that people such as yourself do not even know which is which.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

Wow...well clearly these hotels are so historic that people such as yourself do not even know which is which.

They're not labeled and I have a terrible memory. In my lifetime they've always been empty, so yah, its hard to recall which one has which name.

Terrible attempt at a valid point though.

[PHXistheBEST]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

They're not labeled and I have a terrible memory. In my lifetime they've always been empty, so yah, its hard to recall which one has which name.

Terrible attempt at a valid point though.

It is a valid point, you just don't like the reality of it which is called the truth. This property is so important to you that you don't know which is which. Much of this issue is about a mob of people who A) have nothing going on in their own lives B) want to feel they are doing something good and want attention that has become historic preservation in Phoenix. Combine overbearing people (preservationists) with elected officials who have no spine (Stanton for example) and it makes a bad combination with people who can not respect property rights and mind their own business.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

It is a valid point, you just don't like the reality of it which is called the truth. This property is so important to that you don't know which is which.

So because I have a poor memory, these buildings aren't interesting. Ok....

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

Much of this issue is about a mob of people who A) have nothing going on in their own lives

Congrats on an ad hominem attack. This is a logically invalid point, sorry.

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

B) want to feel they are doing something good and want attention that has become historic preservation in Phoenix.

Oh yah historic preservation in Phoenix is so glamorous. Nothing like spending your time and money to try to make the City a great, interesting place and often coming up on the short end of the stick.

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

Combine overbearing people (preservationists)

Yes its SO overbearing to say "hey maybe save these buildings and work them into a boutique hotel, you'll make more money that way Mr Sarver!"

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

with elected officials who have no spine (Stanton for example)

WTF? Stanton worked his ass off to get what little portion of the building saved thats being saved. Stanton offered the Suns all sorts of parking alternatives FOR FREE that they wouldn't take.

Originally Posted by PHXistheBEST

and it makes a bad combination with people who can not respect property rights and mind their own business.

How is this a property rights issue? The buildings weren't under any kind of protection and no one said they were. People were merely trying to show Mr Sarver that its in his own best interest to save and use the buildings.

But you're right, we should just all "mind our own business". Forget about community or building a quality City.

[PHXistheBEST]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

So because I have a poor memory, these buildings aren't interesting. Ok....

Really? Thats the best you can come up with to counter my opinion? On a personal level it saddens me to these buildings come down. But they have been vacant for what? 20 year? (please see reply below on your reply of these being made into a B&B or some boutique hotel like the Clarendon). It speaks volume when someone says these buildings are historic and iconic but can't remember which is which. "Old" is not "historic" and some in phx are making that connection.



Congrats on an ad hominem attack. This is a logically invalid point, sorry.

No its not. I am reminded of old men in their retirement who walk around and turn people in to their local HOA. You want to focus on something? Get Stanton and the council to focus on bringing companies and jobs to the city! A parking lot is not something I am thrilled to have either. Get more companies to move into downtown and it will have a larger impact then any razing of buildings. (BTW this does not mean trying to get companies located in other parts of the city to move downtown, having a negative impact on those neighborhoods).



Oh yah historic preservation in Phoenix is so glamorous. Nothing like spending your time and money to try to make the City a great, interesting place and often coming up on the short end of the stick.

Who's opinion of "great"? Yours? Your group?


Yes its SO overbearing to say "hey maybe save these buildings and work them into a boutique hotel, you'll make more money that way Mr Sarver!"

Did your research the costs of making these buildings into what you want? They do not even have attached bathrooms to the rooms as they had multiple rooms sharing one bathroom. Do you understand the costs of bringing these building back to something like that?


WTF? Stanton worked his ass off to get what little portion of the building saved thats being saved. Stanton offered the Suns all sorts of parking alternatives FOR FREE that they wouldn't take.

I am not thrilled about a parking spot in downtown either just as I am not thrilled about homeowners who put little nomes in their front yards. Freedom is not something that works for just you and your way of thinking.



How is this a property rights issue? The buildings weren't under any kind of protection and no one said they were. People were merely trying to show Mr Sarver that its in his own best interest to save and use the buildings.

Are you really saying preservationists did not try and get the city to become involved to stop this? I heard different (maybe I am wrong).

But you're right, we should just all "mind our own business". Forget about community or building a quality City.

Let me ask a question. What did you want to get done here? Let the buildings sit and fall further into disrepair? Tear down the buildings and get another high-rise put up (which is what I would personally like)? You wanted to see these structures put back to use. Would you have been wiling to come up with the millions to make it happen?

[HooverDam]

1. I have a horrible, horrible memory, so me, 1 person mixing up the names of the hotels is a pretty weak thing to build your argument on.

2. It was an ad hominem attack, you can say its not if you like, but that doesn't make it right.

3. Don't you think Stanton is trying to lure other companies downtown? I know for a fact he's met with dozens of companies about coming to downtown Phx. Its a process, it won't happen over night.

4. Yes, my opinion of great. I think I do know what's best for Phx because I think about it constantly, Im well studied on the City, its history and what makes cities great in general. Great cities respect and preserve their history.

5. Some research had been done on rehabbing the building by smarter people than me, I.e. Michael Levine. Sadly there wasn't time to do do much because Server was moving quick to teardown.

6. You heard wrong. Stanton and the city tried to work out an amicable situation but didnt threaten legal action, nor could they. People just wanted Server to put off demo for a season or so, give time to look into other options while the city let them park on Madison.

The tear down was very short sighted. Server could've built a modern boutique hotel on the surface lot adjacent to the buildings and had something unique with a competitive edge over other downtown hotels. Now he has a parking lot and if he ever wants to develop a hotel it'll likely be a bland soulless blah like the Sheraton or Hyatt.

[nickw252]

Why do people respond to PHXistheBEST? He was acting like a troll when we were expressing concern for the Frank Lloyd Wright House and now he's making the same private property rights argument with these buildings. His arguments would be better taken on a tea party or Goldwater forum.

[Arquitect]

Originally Posted by nickw252

Why do people respond to PHXistheBEST? He was acting like a troll when we were expressing concern for the Frank Lloyd Wright House and now he's making the same private property rights argument with these buildings. His arguments would be better taken on a tea party or Goldwater forum.

It is true. Although, this stupid argument about property rights is what has led our city to many of its problems. Developers only care about their own profit, rather then how it integrates with the city.

[Vicelord John]

he is as entitled to his opinions as the rest of us are.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

he is as entitled to his opinions as the rest of us are.

Own opinions? Sure. Own facts? No.

This isn't a property rights case. No one is saying the Suns weren't legally allowed to knock the buildings over.

What is being said is that they're assholes for doing it. Especially considering:

1. They have been blatantly violating the City ordinances about valet parking for years, which both the Suns and the City are aware of. But the City looks the other way because they want to be supportive of businesses bringing people downtown.

2. The City offered the Suns multiple FREE other places to park. They also offered to close down Madison St at increased expense to the City!

So to try to frame this discussion as some issue of 'rights' is nonsense. Its an issue of: is Robert Sarver an asshole? Clearly yes. Is Robert Sarver short sighted? Clearly yes.

[Vicelord John]

He doesn't agree that they were being assholes. He thinks they were just doing what they have the rights to do.

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by Vicelord John

He doesn't agree that they were being assholes. He thinks they were just doing what they have the rights to do.

So he is a moron.

[pbenjamin]

From today's New York Times:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/us/...-a-city-that-values-the-new.xml?f=21&p=3

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by pbenjamin

From today's New York Times:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/us/...-a-city-that-values-the-new.xml?f=21&p=3

The question that ought to be asked, Mr. McPherson said, is, "How do you continue to tell a city's story if the remnants of its past have all come down?"

It's sad but true.

On a related note, I went to LoLo's Chicken last night for dinner. It's in an old building at Central and Buckeye that they rehabbed. It looks great inside and out. The best part was that I went with a family friend who happens to know the owners. She said that they originally wanted to tear down the building and build a new one but the city wouldn't let them. She then commented on how nice the building was and how glad she was that they rehabbed rather than rebuilt. It was very heartening hearing comments like that from people with no connections to the preservation community.

[Vicelord John]

My theory is that this city is full of people who feel entitled because they came from old dirty east coast cities to get away from what they feel is "old and shitty". There are many people I have encountered here who feel if everything in an area isn't brand new, it's automatically ghetto.

I'll never forget in high school I dated a girl whos parents lived at 56th and Bell in a really nice newer neighborhood. They wouldn't go anywhere west of Tatum or south of Bell because they considered those streets to be the border of the ghetto and actually the mom once said to me "Those areas are gross, nothing is new there."

This stuck in my mind ever since and it's apparent this mindset is common.

[Arquitect]

Just rode the light rail past the downtown ymca. Hope it gets built quickly. It will be a great adition to thr public square.

[nickw252]

Since this thread has degenerated into petty arguments (again) I went out and took some pictures of things actually related to Phoenix Development News.

Originally Posted by Arquitect

Just rode the light rail past the downtown ymca. Hope it gets built quickly. It will be a great adition to thr public square.

I just took pics of it from the rear:

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by Phxguy

Construction for the apartments on Mckinley and 2nd Ave has begun. Rebar is up.

Native Connections Apartments Construction.





On a related note, the McKinley Lofts right down the block look great.

[nickw252]

Condo rehab at 11th Ave and McDowell. They are slowly making progress. Now I wish the office buildings on that corner would get rehabbed. There is fresh graffiti on one of the buildings.

[nickw252]

An old apartment building located near ASU’s Downtown campus was recently renovated to target ASU graduate students and young professionals.

Mark Panattoni renovated what is now called The Filmore apartments after purchasing the property in June with the vision to create “a sophisticated environment at an affordable price.” The complex, formerly called the Town Apartments, originally had 34-single studio rooms but now contains 34 one-bedroom units that are around 500 square feet each.

“As a grad student or young executive you want to be proud of the place you live, and my vision was to come in and make this building a nice place to live again,” Panattoni said.

Panattoni said he decided the complex’s location at Third Avenue and Fillmore Street was ideal for a younger market. Rent for new rooms will range from $600 to $650.

“When I did my rent survey I found that most of the apartment complexes in the area did not have vacancies, and most of them weren’t even nice places,” Panattoni said.

Journalism sophomore, Dominick DiFurio, said he is not proud of his current living situation. DiFurio lives at The Met apartments, and he said that he should be getting a lot more for the amount of money he is paying.

“I have to say the Met has not lived up to my expectations. I realized after moving into my place I could have moved in to a much nicer place for the same price,” DiFurio said.

Vaughn Hillyard, a journalism senior, is constantly lugging camera equipment from his apartment to his classes, so he chose to live at The Met Apartments because of the short walk to campus. The Met was both affordable and close to school, he added.

“I think that the location of The Filmore and that price is a reasonable opportunity for students to live in the downtown community,” Hillyard said.

Kyle Wyloge, real estate agent and marketer for The Filmore, said he thinks the renovation could have a positive impact on the downtown community.

“There are no apartment complexes like this and I think we will see a lot more properties like this coming along in the next few years,” Wyloge said.

Designed with new quartz countertops, cabinets, appliances and free Wi-Fi, Panattoni said the complex should be finished in a few weeks.

Marcus Jones, a public service and public policy senior, considers proximity and cost to be the most important factors when searching for a place to live. Jones lived off campus last year and decided to come back to the Taylor Place Residence Hall to be closer to campus.

“What matters to me is convenience. How close is it to the grocery store? Is it in a safe neighborhood? Is it affordable? Based on the location, I could see students choosing to live at The Filmore,” Jones said.

When developing The Filmore apartments, Panattoni put emphasis on energy efficiency by installing double-paned windows and tankless water heaters in each room as well as using 50 percent recycled materials for the flooring.

“We made it one of our goals to be energy efficient when we were working on this project, and in my opinion I think we did a pretty good job,” Panattoni said.

The Filmore has a pool in the center of the complex and is equipped with storage units so that students can store larger items such as bikes or other bulky equipment.

“Everyone wants to feel good about where they live. I think with the improvements that we have made to the units, and the time and care that we have put into designing and maximizing the space, makes our building really stand out among our competitors,” Panattoni said.

Panattoni is working on creating a website that should launch in the next week so that students can apply and find more information about The Filmore online.

http://downtowndevil.com/2012/10/18/32879/student-apartments-filmore-met/