PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II - Page 100

Private Dick · #**1981** Posted **Oct 15, 2012, 3:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock

Interesting! Any idea if and when this expansion will actually take place?

Aaron (Glowrock)

Well... they've been talking about a major expansion for well over a decade now. And they were aggressive about it in the early 2000s -- with a design competition won by Jean Nouvel -- but his design was going to be way over budget, so the Board of Directors dropped him. Which 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 because it would be cool to have something in Pittsburgh designed by a contemporary "starchitect", but unfortunately limited budgets for big projects like these has been par for the course in Pittsburgh in recent times. That set a bad example, because the Board should have never chosen such a dramatic design if they knew they weren't going to be able to actually do it. Now, notable architects know to avoid it. I think there was some fallout after that and the director (who was largely responsible for turning the struggling museum around) quit. Since then, it's been moderately successful, but kind of treading water.

That original expansion was supposed to be completed in 2008. I think the date they're talking about for the above expansion is not until 2018.

Here are some links:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/region/science-center-unveils-expansion-plan-409647/

http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/cp/assets/carnegie_science_center/08_csc_master_dev_plan.pdf

BrianMM111 · #**1982** Posted **Oct 15, 2012, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by glowrock

Interesting! Any idea if and when this expansion will actually take place?

Aaron (Glowrock)

It appears to be part of a 10 year "master plan" that started back in 2008. The building in the renderings, I believe, is the 4th and final phase, which should take place between 2013-2018.

Quote:

Science Center unveils expansion plan
September 10, 2008 12:00 am
By Mark Belko / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Carnegie Science Center plans to expand by 80,000 square feet, build a new home for its popular SportsWorks exhibition and create an outdoor "eco park" under an ambitious 10-year master plan.......

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...ils-expansion-plan-409647/#ixzz29Nh0RQ86

glowrock · #**1983** Posted **Oct 15, 2012, 4:23 PM**

I think it would be a fantastic addition to the North Shore. The Science Center is a really cool museum, but definitely needs an expansion to add some new large-scale exhibits. Hopefully this actually happens over the next few years!

Aaron (Glowrock)

AaronPGH · #**1984** Posted **Oct 15, 2012, 4:31 PM**

I'm not opposed to Nouvel's design coming back. I just want to see a bigger/better rendering. I can't really make out what it looks like, exactly.

markson33 · #**1985** Posted **Oct 15, 2012, 6:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

I'm not opposed to Nouvel's design coming back. I just want to see a bigger/better rendering. I can't really make out what it looks like, exactly.

I read an article that said the science center actually sued Nouvel because they felt he mislead them on the budget. I don't have any idea what ever becameof that.

Jonboy1983 · #**1986** Posted **Oct 15, 2012, 8:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmust71

I live in Mt. Lebanon and haven't heard of that until now... there is a 7 story Marriot under construction right next to the T station though.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Marriott. The decking part with the intention of building something significant on top of it kinda has me drooling tho...

Oh, and so does this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Anyone looking for a house on Mt Washington? I recommend this one, on the market now: 207 Bailey Ave. 4 bedrooms, 8 bathrooms. 4.2 mil. Check out the pics.

Aw, come on, Austin! Reminding me of another piece of land I will never own...

In all seriousness tho, if it weren't for the Pittsburgh skyline off in the distance, you'd never know this is in the Burgh. You'd expect places like that to be built in an otherwise warm if not tropical location...

Anyway, about the science center expansion. I do like it. Do I think it could be better? Of course. That design does blend in with the existing science center, but it's not really anything new or cutting edge. At the same time tho, any expansion would be welcomed. Anyone ever been to the Franklin Institute? I think about ten Carnegie Science Centers can fit in there!

Found5dollar · #**1987** Posted **Oct 17, 2012, 4:24 AM**

So i walk buy this building under construction all the time on Ellsworth basically at the intersection with Summerlea. It is three stories tall, made of some sort of poured concrete, and looks like it has between two and three store fronts on the first floor. anyone know anything about it?

Found5dollar · #**1988** Posted **Oct 17, 2012, 5:25 AM**

Also, there is a cool new sim for making your own BRT system in Pittsburgh at get there pgh.

http://gettherepgh.org/sim/

alot of fun for us transit nuts, but alto of variables and ideas left out. even basic ones like choosing which side of the street the station is on (or maybe on an island in the middle).

Austinlee · #**1989** Posted **Oct 17, 2012, 6:51 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonboy1983

Yeah, I'm familiar with the Marriott. The decking part with the intention of building something significant on top of it kinda has me drooling tho...

Oh, and so does this:

Aw, come on, Austin! Reminding me of another piece of land I will never own...

In all seriousness tho, if it weren't for the Pittsburgh skyline off in the distance, you'd never know this is in the Burgh. You'd expect places like that to be built in an otherwise warm if not tropical location...

Anyway, about the science center expansion. I do like it. Do I think it could be better? Of course. That design does blend in with the existing science center, but it's not really anything new or cutting edge. At the same time tho, any expansion would be welcomed. Anyone ever been to the Franklin Institute? I think about ten Carnegie Science Centers can fit in there!

Ahh come on Johnnyboy! A big-city urban planner like yourself can't scrape together 4 million for a weekend party pad on Mt Washington? Aren't you the guy who master planned Rittenhouse Square? Get your act together son!

kosi3 · #**1990** Posted **Oct 17, 2012, 6:45 PM**

Another article about the Saks redevelopment...no renderings/height specs yet

http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/saks...ress%7d&utm_campaign=Connecting+our+city

Mugatu · #**1991** Posted **Oct 17, 2012, 11:16 PM**

I'm sure somebody more knowledgeable than myself might be able to speculate given some of the article's figures and the footprint of the area.

Jonboy1983 · #**1992** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 1:00 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Ahh come on Johnnyboy! A big-city urban planner like yourself can't scrape together 4 million for a weekend party pad on Mt Washington? Aren't you the guy who master planned Rittenhouse Square? Get your act together son!

LOL!

I wish I was the bloak who master planned Rittenhouse Square!!

But, for now I'll keep working on Allegheny Center.

Austinlee · #**1993** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 3:38 PM**

Pittsburgh Design Winners 2012
http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/designawardswinners101712.aspx

PNC Legacy Porject (Lantern Bldg)

Pitt Chevron Tower Annex

Southside Slopes Pylon Sculpture

Pittsburgh Tribute to Children

Gateway Center Station

Croghan's Edge Townhouses - Lawrenceville

(IMO: ugly colors, but great land usage)

South Hills High School - Renovated to be retirement home

(I'd retire in that; It looks awesome)

Source photos and more info: http://aiapgh.org/feature-articles/design-pittsburgh-2012/

Austinlee · #**1994** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 4:33 PM**

Just randomly found this photo. Killer shot!

Credit to qxster1 on Flikr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28904058@N05/3357565631/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Private Dick · #**1995** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 4:45 PM**

Downtown Pittsburgh residents may get a place to buy their groceries

October 18, 2012 12:29 am
By Mark Belko / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/loca...uy-their-groceries-658050/#ixzz29fa2mtRq

A grocery or market has long been near the top of the wish list for the growing number of Downtown residents. Now two Downtown property owners are working to make those wishes come true.

Small groceries or markets are being considered for vacant space in Piatt Place and at PPG Place, perhaps as a replacement for the existing food court there.

If either proposal is successful, it would mark the first grocery Downtown since Rosebud Fine Food Market and Deli on Seventh Street at the Encore apartment complex closed in March 2010.

Lucas Piatt, chief operating officer of Millcraft Industries, the Piatt Place owner and developer, said a market is among the uses under consideration for an empty 15,000-square-foot space on the Fifth Avenue side of the former Lazarus-Macy's building.

Mr. Piatt said he has talked to several operators about opening a market in the space. He would not identify them.

"It's definitely a use we would love to see in Downtown," he said. "I think we've reached that point of critical mass to support it. It's just a matter of finding the right operator."

Austinlee · #**1996** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 5:05 PM**

^ I really don't think it will stick this time either. Here's why: You can't FORCE a grocery store. The name of the game nowadays in supermarkets is variety. If you don't have enough variety people won't come. Nationwide there are 8,800 residents per grocery store. Since the northside and southside already have dirty birds, the downtown population will have to be at least this much for success. I ALSO believe that a lot of empty nester couples in condos and POOR college students at Point Park University and the Art Institute aren't going to be supporting well stocked kitchens. Empty nesters like to go out to eat a lot and A.I. students do drugs, not food. Plus there are virtually no children or large families to my knowledge so I think it will take even more residents than the national average of 8,800. Even if downtown/strip district is around 6,000 people strong now, my personal belief is a grocer won't be financially viable for awhile. Maybe in another decade of condo towers and apartment conversions.
Sorry, but ignoring this doesn't get us any further ahead.

glowrock · #**1997** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 6:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

^ I really don't think it will stick this time either. Here's why: You can't FORCE a grocery store. The name of the game nowadays in supermarkets is variety. If you don't have enough variety people won't come. Nationwide there are 8,800 residents per grocery store. Since the northside and southside already have dirty birds, the downtown population will have to be at least this much for success. I ALSO believe that a lot of empty nester couples in condos and POOR college students at Point Park University and the Art Institute aren't going to be supporting well stocked kitchens. Empty nesters like to go out to eat a lot and A.I. students do drugs, not food. Plus there are virtually no children or large families to my knowledge so I think it will take even more residents than the national average of 8,800. Even if downtown/strip district is around 6,000 people strong now, my personal belief is a grocer won't be financially viable for awhile. Maybe in another decade of condo towers and apartment conversions.
Sorry, but ignoring this doesn't get us any further ahead.

Difference is this isn't a supermarket, but something 1/4 to 1/3 the size of a standard Giant Eagle, Austin... I agree that downtown can't support a full supermarket, but I can definitely see a 10-15k sf market with a good prepared foods section, meat/fish counter, decent non-perishables, etc., doing quite well. Marty's Market is all well and good, but it's super high-end fuppie-style, everything organic, everything expensive kind of place. Something more down to earth would be much better.

Aaron (Glowrock)

AaronPGH · #**1998** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 6:30 PM**

If the food market they put in has a robust prepared foods section and a good-sized seating area, they will CRUSH it at lunch.

themaguffin · #**1999** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 7:37 PM**

This would be a small market. I highly doubt it would be as big as an old school A&P etc.

And I'm thinking it would have - if they're smart - a nice hot food bar (and cold too) and fresh foods to take advantage of the work population.

Something done right - basics/essentials, plus a little more than that and fresh food could hit the right mark...

Jonboy1983 · #**2000** Posted **Oct 18, 2012, 8:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaguffin

This would be a small market. I highly doubt it would be as big as an old school A&P etc.

And I'm thinking it would have - if they're smart - a nice hot food bar (and cold too) and fresh foods to take advantage of the work population.

Something done right - basics/essentials, plus a little more than that and fresh food could hit the right mark...

Agreed with this and previous remarks. I don't really see anything high-end going in Downtown anytime soon. To take these points here, yeah, they definitely need a nice mix of fresh prepared hot/cold food and a selection of essentials. We're pretty much talking about a 150-foot-by-100-foot space or something of similar dimensions. I think this could be plenty big enough for several isles of essentials (toiletries, hygene products, breads, cereals, etc) and an adjacent sit-down cafe type area along with a fish/meats and produce section...

Over in Exton, PA, we have something called Produce Junction. I believe they sell locally grown produce for less than dirt cheap. You can buy your produce there in bulk for as little as a few bucks. Perhaps something like this could work in Downtown or in the Strip?