Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[xd_1771]

Found this awesome video just now! The next generation of SkyTrain, everyone!
• Video Link
There's some interior car shots and they look pretty darn awesome to me

[nname]

Originally Posted by Spork

When I was visiting Taiwan and transiting (as I do in every city that I visit), I noted that busses board through the rear doors and people exit through the front, tapping their card out of the bus to pay. I've been racking my brain ever since to figure out if there is any advantage to this system. Can any of you think of a reason that this might be the case?

In Taiwan (Taipei at least), they use a zone system that is defined by route, and the fare is NT$ 15 times the num of zones. For a 2-zones bus, people enter the bus through front door (tap) and exit through rear door (no tap) in the first zone; enter through rear door (no tap) and exit through front door (tap) in the second zone. If there is a buffer zone, everyone enter/exit through the front door and the driver will have to remember where everyone board the bus (they sometimes give out a small slip or plastic card for that). The same applies for 3 zones buses - the driver would sometimes tell you to tap twice when exit. If the bus have more zones (the most right now is 8 zones I believe) or is one of the inter-city charge-by-distance route, then the bus use front door only and both tap in and out are required. If someone forgot to tap out, the card will become "locked" and unusable, and he/she must go to the depot of the last used route to manually unlock the card (and probably pay a penalty).

[Robert in Calgary]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I conducted a research study myself and found that TTC could have saved money by building their Eglington Crosstown LRT with full grade separation but with ART techonology, and upgraded the Scarborough RT to accomodate Mk IIs. Instead the Eglington Crosstown has a far worse, partially at-grade service that makes a big travel time and reliability sacrifice while costing more to operate and providing less theoretical capacity.

I agree that Eglington as ART would be brilliant.

I'm surprised Bombardier has not put a full court press on this project.

Partner up with some of Canada's big pension funds for a design/build or design/build/operate proposal. And make it from the Airport to STC or the extra 5km or so to Malvern.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by nname

In Taiwan (Taipei at least), they use a zone system that is defined by route, and the fare is NT$ 15 times the num of zones. For a 2-zones bus, people enter the bus through front door (tap) and exit through rear door (no tap) in the first zone; enter through rear door (no tap) and exit through front door (tap) in the second zone. If there is a buffer zone, everyone enter/exit through the front door and the driver will have to remember where everyone board the bus (they sometimes give out a small slip or plastic card for that). The same applies for 3 zones buses - the driver would sometimes tell you to tap twice when exit. If the bus have more zones (the most right now is 8 zones I believe) or is one of the inter-city charge-by-distance route, then the bus use front door only and both tap in and out are required. If someone forgot to tap out, the card will become "locked" and unusable, and he/she must go to the depot of the last used route to manually unlock the card (and probably pay a penalty).

Wow! I'm glad that I was only taking it in one or two zones, that's incredibly complex. Apparently the system isn't ripe for adoption for Compass! Thanks for the detail.

[red-paladin]

TransLink audit finds $41M in savings
CBC News
Posted: Oct 16, 2012 11:42 AM PT
Last Updated: Oct 16, 2012 11:40 AM PT

A performance audit of TransLink by the provincial government has found $41 million in savings, Transportation Minister Mary Polak announced Tuesday.

The savings are in addition to the $98-million already found in efficiencies that are included in TransLink’s draft 2013 base plan, bringing the total potential savings to $139 million per year.
....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/10/16/bc-translink-audit.html

[nname]

I'm not sure if all of them are saving...

30M of the 41M are the elimination of contingencies. Since they don't just throw the money away if they are unused, I'm not sure what is actually saved...

The other items are 1.1M from cutting weekday mid-day frequency on SkyTrain, and 5.2M from cutting low-performing routes..

[Gordon]

The 30 year transportation Strategy isn't due until next August coincidentally this government will likely be out of power by then, thereby allowing it to avoid having to make any tough decisions on allowing new funding mechanism's to allow a stable funding model for Translink.

Hopefully the Mayors council will be able to to talk to the Federal Government to release the gas tax revenue at least until the long term funding problem is dealt with.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Found this awesome video just now! The next generation of SkyTrain, everyone!
• Video Link
There's some interior car shots and they look pretty darn awesome to me

We have something like this in Miami Airport for the North Concourse served by American Airlines

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

We have something like this in Miami Airport for the North Concourse served by American Airlines

If you haven't watched the video and are referring to the static image you see, that's a people mover... but the next generation of SkyTrain is not the people mover you see in that pic. Watch the whole thing.

Anyways, interesting quote from that Provincial audit on pg 19 regarding the cost of refurbishing the Mk Is vs buying "Mk III"s:

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Anyways, interesting quote from that Provincial audit on pg 19 regarding the cost of refurbishing the Mk Is vs buying "Mk III"s:

A 40 year service life for a transit vehicle that's as heavily used as these are is a pretty impressive feat and speaks well of how well these vehicles were built.

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by nname

I'm not sure if all of them are saving...

30M of the 41M are the elimination of contingencies. Since they don't just throw the money away if they are unused, I'm not sure what is actually saved...

The other items are 1.1M from cutting weekday mid-day frequency on SkyTrain, and 5.2M from cutting low-performing routes..

Good thing you read it. The news forums right now are just brutal to the point of stupidity.

First off: Why eliminate the contingencies when one is a public agency that faces constant, volatile swings in opinion and funding? Why try to cut the system to the barebones so that when actual cuts have to take place, they'll be the worst ever for all of us?

Secondly: Why the hate for trolleybuses vs the love for CNG buses? Do you not know that TransLink wishes to phase out the latter as they have been "lemons" in their long-distance role? And what's up with the thinking that the clean, electric trolley wire maintenance is more expensive than fuelling 400 diesel buses a day?

Those idiotic remarks in the report aside, other things sound more reasonable... e.g. the reform of HandyDart, restructuring the police and security services, the trimming of maintenance and administrative personnel, etc. However, I hope TransLink treads carefully here still for fear of cutting the nose to spite the face, so to speak.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

A 40 year service life for a transit vehicle that's as heavily used as these are is a pretty impressive feat and speaks well of how well these vehicles were built.

No kidding. Imagine if we had LRT instead! You'd never see those on the road 40 years afterwards, let alone 10 considering the drivers around here.

[Mac Write]

an extra 107M for a 80% Mark II/III fleet. That seems worth it. How many cars will $157M get us? at $3M/car that's only 52 cars which is half of what we have now. But the space increase of the Mark III will be huge for handling rush hour.

[Gordon]

The new Innovia cars look quite nice and with the inward facing seats that flip up have the ability to be a fairly high capacity vehicle.

The mayor's council votes on the 3 year property tax increase today. hopefully they pass it because this would allow some expansion while a sustainable long term funding model is created for Translink.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by Gordon

The new Innovia cars look quite nice and with the inward facing seats that flip up have the ability to be a fairly high capacity vehicle.

The mayor's council votes on the 3 year property tax increase today. hopefully they pass it because this would allow some expansion while a sustainable long term funding model is created for Translink.

I really doubt that they will pass it, unfortunately. Most of the mayor's council doesn't give a damn about the poor and those that rely on transit - only their own ability to get reelected, which is apparently 100% reliant on property tax levels.

Originally Posted by Mac Write

an extra 107M for a 80% Mark II/III fleet. That seems worth it. How many cars will $157M get us? at $3M/car that's only 52 cars which is half of what we have now. But the space increase of the Mark III will be huge for handling rush hour.

It'd be nice, but Translink doesn't have the money for something like that right now.

[Gordon]

Translink could use the federal gas tax money for this, but it would have to be for expansion but there is no money for expanded service.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I really doubt that they will pass it, unfortunately. Most of the mayor's council doesn't give a damn about the poor and those that rely on transit - only their own ability to get reelected, which is apparently 100% reliant on property tax levels.

The mayor's council already approved interim property taxes contingent on the Province coming to the table to discuss alternative funding sources. The Province reneged on that deal. Withholding the property taxes is the only lever the mayors have to force the Province to honor its commitment. Much as I want Translink to get the funding it needs, I support them in this.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The mayor's council already approved interim property taxes contingent on the Province coming to the table to discuss alternative funding sources. The Province reneged on that deal. Withholding the property taxes is the only lever the mayors have to force the Province to honor its commitment. Much as I want Translink to get the funding it needs, I support them in this.

Translink really needs some of that media coverage they had when Tom Prendergast was in charge. He led some pretty effective, in my opinion, campaigns which were starting to expose BC gov't. for hamstringing the transit agency.

Just when he was gaining momentum, he left for NYC. Too bad, imho.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

No kidding. Imagine if we had LRT instead! You'd never see those on the road 40 years afterwards, let alone 10 considering the drivers around here.

I wouldn't say that....some LRVs in Europe are far older than 40 years and they are still used regularly. And I'm not talking about touristy trams like you'd see in San Francisco's Market street. Longevity of LRVs is one of the selling points of such a system.

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Translink really needs some of that media coverage they had when Tom Prendergast was in charge. He led some pretty effective, in my opinion, campaigns which were starting to expose BC gov't. for hamstringing the transit agency.

Just when he was gaining momentum, he left for NYC. Too bad, imho.

Can you really blame Tom Pendergrast?

Here is a guy from NYC who ended up running what is essentially an extremely inadequate transit organization setup as a scapegoat, whose inadequacy is caused by political infighting for the most silliest of reasons.

And despite is efforts, nothing goes through with the pigheadedness of the likes of Shirley Bond and Derek Corrigan.

So he gets a job offer to move back to his home town, to manage what is essentially one of the best and most renowned transit systems in all of North America, or even the world. Would you refuse such an opportunity if you were in his shoes?

[twoNeurons]

Agreed Queetz. I don't blame the guy at all. I blame Translink and the BC government for losing him. I just wish we had someone who could make the organization strong and call the provincial government to account.

Now, we essentially have a lame duck organization that acts as the province's flaccid whipping boy.