Winnipeg Construction

[lilwayne]

Originally Posted by bryanscott

I'm not saying that parts of the city. I'm just saying that in some areas od the city the suburbs have essentially won out. Polo Park is one of them. I'm not going to lose sleep if it continues to be the car-centric suburban shopping district that it is. Even great, thriving urban centers have these areas.

But you won't catch me anywhere near there on a Saturday afternoon near Christmas.

i dont even consider polo park a suburban shopping mall,, its bloody 5 minutes drive from dt..

mts center is like 400 portage and polo park is 1650 portage... by car or bus its like 5 - 10 minutes from the core.

[bryanscott]

Originally Posted by lilwayne

i dont even consider polo park a suburban shopping mall,, its bloody 5 minutes drive from dt..

mts center is like 400 portage and polo park is 1650 portage... by car or bus its like 5 - 10 minutes from the core.

It's not the suburbs, but, uh, it sure ain't urban. It's a case where the suburban mentality has won out. Now, I can live with there being suburban development, just as long as it stays where it belongs—the suburbs. And whereas I'm not going to lose sleep over big box stores and seas of parking in Polo Park (because it was never urban to begin with), I freak out when I see developments like the one that was built a few years ago at Stafford and Corydon (the one with the Tim's and the parking lot in front).

By the way, when I say Polo Park, I'm referring to the whole area—not just the mall.

[flatlander]

I'm not writing off Polo Park (the mall). I think there's a great opportunity broaden the mix with some housing. Take the entire stretch along Portage. Add some retail CRUs or something with residential above. Fill in that parking lot. All of a sudden you have something urban, with a street edge, and mixed use based around a transit hub, all five minutes from downtown ...

Not insurmountable at all. The rest of Polo Park is an industrial park in transition and it's hard to get excited about that one way or another. Most industrial districts don't evolve into Gooderham and Worts.

[Biff]

I look at the Polo Park area as a "it is what it is" type of neighborhood. I don't see why the city should invest any money at all in trying to change it into a different type of area. There are pretty strict rules regarding NEW residential in the area. I commented on this a while back when the city first put out the RFP for development. In typical city fashion i don't believe the city new what its own rules were when drafting up the RFP for mixed use including residential. You are limited in height now to 10 stories or under and I'm not even sure if new multi-family residential is even allowed in the general area - due to the airport runway overlays. I think what you see developing there is, what is allowed there.

The city does, however have to improve the traffic congestion somehow. I know that is not popular around here but again, it is what it is and we will always have cars in this city so it needs to be fixed.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by esquire

Westport to me is an example of an egregious form of development. It's the sort of thing that encourages new suburban subdivisions to spring up and gobble up more farmland instead of increasing urban density. I can guarantee you that almost everyone who ends up living within proximity to the extended transit service will not use the extended transit service - the bus in that area will be the domain of junior high kids, a few seniors and the odd person who for whatever reason cannot drive. In other words, virtually no one will ever choose to live in that area because of the transit service.

And yes, Target will inevitably go up in greenfield power centres. But the fact that they are putting a store in an urban area means that the people who live in the surrounding neighbourhoods have this amenity at their doorstep too. In other words, when it comes to Target stores, the score is Inner City 1, Suburbs 1.

I know people love to hate the mess that Polo Park has become, but it would be worse in my view if the only big retail hubs were clustered on the outer edges of the city. That would provide a huge disincentive to living in urban areas.

Originally Posted by flatlander

To me, Westport will only encourage more sprawling development outside the perimeter. Who cares if there's a park and ride location - would anybody actually take the bus from the perimeter to Portage and Main?

I live in osborne south and it already pisses me off that i have less bus service so that we can serve the University of Manitoba better. Rapid Transit is not benefitting the neighbourhoods best able to support it. Yet.

I know people crap on Polo Park traffic but really - the only thing worse than bad traffic is no traffic. With changing technologies and transportation needs that area could've been one big abandoned industrial site. Instead it's retail with hopefully more higher density residential to follow. That's not a bad transition.

Though I agree with both of you guys, I must point out a bit of irony here. I live downtown (Colony and Broadway) and take the bus to the MTS Iceplex 3 times a week. LOL!!!!

However, I am the only one on the bus by the time it hits Unicity, and I have never seen anyone else get off at St. Charles, like myself.

I am completely against the development across the perimeter for your reasons and would have no problem with having to continue to walk for ten minutes with my equipment in tow, if it is for the betterment of the city. Which preventing this development would be.

[CoryB]

I get that the location of Westport Festival is not popular with the uban density crowd but it is actually a well placed development, unlike Seasons of Tuxedo.

First, Westport Festival sites at the corner of a major east-west route and good north-south access on the Perimeter. This will help traffic quickly and efficently move away from the site. As an example look at the traffic situation when the Red River Ex is operating, the issues occur with slowing traffic down when entering the lot to collect payment, not with traffic leaving the site. as for the potential conflict with the truck traffic, a lot of that will soon relocate to the new Headingely by-pass. I know some people question when that will be built, my answer there is you don't spend millions of dollars buiding an overpass to handle a road that will be built at some undefinied future point.

Second, access to the site will be through existing traffic lights at Racetrack Rd and Camp Manitou Rd. There is no need to add additional traffic lights like there was at Seasons of Tuxedo which has three new traffic lights before it even opens.

Third, speaking of Seasons of Tuxedo, look at the amount of road infrastructue that site caused. The tripple left turn lane from north bound Kenaston to west bound Sterling Lyon seems like a receipe for disaster. Wilkes west of the site also is currently in extremely poor condition and highly used without the additional traffic from the new development. As citzens we are going to be paying to fix this for years to come.

Fourth, Westport Festival is within the City of Winnipeg boundaries. The facts are that this is on the edge of an existing and very mature neighbourhood (St. James). It is currently underserviced compared to other neighbourhoods of comparable age and of course newer neighbourhoods. A big plus is that this did not end up a little further west in Headingely, say at the site of the closed drive-in theater.

When all the facts are considered and urbanist agendas put aside, Westport Festival is a well placed development that will benefit a community non-profit organization (the Red River Ex).

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I get that the location of Westport Festival is not popular with the uban density crowd but it is actually a well placed development, unlike Seasons of Tuxedo.

First, Westport Festival sites at the corner of a major east-west route and good north-south access on the Perimeter. This will help traffic quickly and efficently move away from the site. As an example look at the traffic situation when the Red River Ex is operating, the issues occur with slowing traffic down when entering the lot to collect payment, not with traffic leaving the site. as for the potential conflict with the truck traffic, a lot of that will soon relocate to the new Headingely by-pass. I know some people question when that will be built, my answer there is you don't spend millions of dollars buiding an overpass to handle a road that will be built at some undefinied future point.

Second, access to the site will be through existing traffic lights at Racetrack Rd and Camp Manitou Rd. There is no need to add additional traffic lights like there was at Seasons of Tuxedo which has three new traffic lights before it even opens.

Third, speaking of Seasons of Tuxedo, look at the amount of road infrastructue that site caused. The tripple left turn lane from north bound Kenaston to west bound Sterling Lyon seems like a receipe for disaster. Wilkes west of the site also is currently in extremely poor condition and highly used without the additional traffic from the new development. As citzens we are going to be paying to fix this for years to come.

Fourth, Westport Festival is within the City of Winnipeg boundaries. The facts are that this is on the edge of an existing and very mature neighbourhood (St. James). It is currently underserviced compared to other neighbourhoods of comparable age and of course newer neighbourhoods. A big plus is that this did not end up a little further west in Headingely, say at the site of the closed drive-in theater.

When all the facts are considered and urbanist agendas put aside, Westport Festival is a well placed development that will benefit a community non-profit organization (the Red River Ex).

Sorry I don't bite, at all. You can try to name a few positives to what ultimately surmounts as a major negative. WestPort is bad for the city as a whole. It services a few hundred people if that.

Seasons is well within the perimeter and is already surrounded by major residential, commercial and industrial neighbourhoods. WestPort only supports the growth of neighbourhoods further West, which we really don't need.

I have been convinced on account of the Polo Park site. However I will never be convinced that WestPort is a good thing for this city. You are trying to convince the wrong group of people CoryB. Maybe you should head over to the SuburbanSprawlPage.com website if you are trying to gain favour over such a silly design. Just joking, but really it is a bad development.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Passionate Pegger

My favourite excuse for why these types of developments are suited for areas like Polo Park and why high density, mixed-use infill developments don't work is because Winnipeg is a "car city". Well of course it is and it always will be if we don't invest in public transit and continually allow auto centric developments like this to occur.

You should post more. I haven't been able to find much transit enthusiasts on here since Kinguni dissapeared from the board

Definitely agreed, the car needs to be replaced by the bus in some sections of our city, especially Kenaston.

Originally Posted by CoryB

First, Westport Festival is a hugely positive development in terms of transit service as it will see an extension of service almost a full mile further to the west. There is also a possibility that eventually the Westport Festival site will be a park and ride location for people commuting to the city from the west.

Transit service should involve peak hour service to Flying J's/Dennys and the Oak Forest development as well. Route 82 extension? We really don't need to add another 22 branch or anything to it...

I think you might've read my earlier posts about future Park and Ride/transit service, I swear! Red River Ex will be a good spot, but impossible to have during any major exhibition or event... MTS Iceplex perhaps? Or a 100-stall P&R between the Office Park and Retail? AKA, out of the way from car thieves and bored teenagers.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

Just joking, but really it is a bad development.

The city, especially downtown, is scared with tonnes of far worse developments. To name a few, Winnipeg Square where you go most of a city block in any direction with no pedistrean interfaces at all. Portage Place, which closed down the existing traffic grid and removed pedistrean friendly buildings. MTS Centre which replaced the closed department store true, but said department store has several points for pedistreans to access it when it was open. MTS Centre amounts to a dead block in the middle of downtown. The 311 Portage Ave development seems to be setup to be another long term failure with the high end condos a mere block from one of Winnipeg's toughest neighbourhoods (Central Park). There is a reason they are strugling to sell condos for $80,000 one block north of the ones planned for Hargrave and Ellice.

Also all the arguements you made on why Seasons of Tuxedo is "good" hold for Westport. St Charles Church just south of Westport Festival and on the other side of the Perimeter dates back to 1868 with houses in the near by neighbourhood dating to before 1960. The bulk of the housing north of Taylor near Kenaston Blvd dates from the early 1980s at the lastest so that is more where the urban sprawl is occuring. Another huge area of sprawl is the protion of the city east of Lag, most of which did not really start filling in until the 1990s.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The city, especially downtown, is scared with tonnes of far worse developments. To name a few, Winnipeg Square where you go most of a city block in any direction with no pedistrean interfaces at all. Portage Place, which closed down the existing traffic grid and removed pedistrean friendly buildings. MTS Centre which replaced the closed department store true, but said department store has several points for pedistreans to access it when it was open. MTS Centre amounts to a dead block in the middle of downtown. The 311 Portage Ave development seems to be setup to be another long term failure with the high end condos a mere block from one of Winnipeg's toughest neighbourhoods (Central Park). There is a reason they are strugling to sell condos for $80,000 one block north of the ones planned for Hargrave and Ellice.

Also all the arguements you made on why Seasons of Tuxedo is "good" hold for Westport. St Charles Church just south of Westport Festival and on the other side of the Perimeter dates back to 1868 with houses in the near by neighbourhood dating to before 1960. The bulk of the housing north of Taylor near Kenaston Blvd dates from the early 1980s at the lastest so that is more where the urban sprawl is occuring. Another huge area of sprawl is the protion of the city east of Lag, most of which did not really start filling in until the 1990s.

I am not saying that those neighbourhoods were established long ago. But they are established now, so Seasons is way better placed than WestPort.

downtown has issues that we are well aware of. Both City Place and MTS Centre are getting major overhauls that funnily enough focus on your points. They are making it much more accessible for pedestrians.

You will never find me saying that every downtown development is gold. I was one of the largest advocates against the WaterPark development.

Those developments that you mentioned really are apples and oranges to WestPort, which based on many factors is an all around bad development. End of story. Kenaston area was developed way before Seasons, and it will continue to develop whether or not Seasons came along. WestPort as I said is serving maybe a few hundred people. That would never be enough to warrant a development of this magnitude. So whats going to happen? Future development, that would not have occurred had this not gone through.

I have no problem with what is currently there, or with what has been there for over a hundred years. My problem is the continued growth outside of the perimeter. If I had to choose between this and Waverly, I would choose Waverly (despite my loathing for that entire area as well), because at least it is within the perimeter.

It is even worse that it is within the city boundaries. Because that means that the city could have prevented it.

Massive amounts of Parking. On the Periphery (literally right on the edge) of the city. Everyone knows I am very much against sprawl so you wouldn't finding me praising this development even if it came with a 35 floor tower.


EDIT: Scratch that, if it came with a new tallest that would be pretty cool. Which would make the entire development all the more ridiculous being where it is.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

Those developments that you mentioned really are apples and oranges to WestPort, which based on many factors is an all around bad development. End of story. Kenaston area was developed way before Seasons, and it will continue to develop whether or not Seasons came along. WestPort as I said is serving maybe a few hundred people. That would never be enough to warrant a development of this magnitude. So whats going to happen? Future development, that would not have occurred had this not gone through.

Much like Seasons is an extension of the existing retail area of Kenaston, Westport is an extension of the existing retail at Unicity. Matter of fact, Seasons is about twice the distance from the existing retail as Westport. It seems the big objection here is the misconception that Winnipeg stops at the Perimeter and always should stop at the Perimeter.

The thought that developers with a deep history would consider a large retail development for a "few hundered people" seems flawed. The housing development just across from Westport would have a few hundred people on its own without taking into consideration that Westport will draw from housing up to Stugeon Rd if not further east. The same can be said for the existing development along Roblin. That easily pushes the numbers into the thousands already. Then take into account Ridgewood, a development inside the Perimeter expanding a long established neighbourhood, which will eventually have 4,000 homes and also be feeding Westport.

The simple facts are that Winnipeg is growing outward with developments increasingly pushing towards the Perimeter in all directions. There is Waverly West, Ridgewood, RiverBend, Amber Trails and east Transconna all touching or getting close to touching the Perimeter. There have been reports that Winnipeg is running out of land for new developments inside the Perimeter with talk of annexing parts that are just outside with Roser (for the inland port), East St Paul and West St Paul topping the list.

The sort of development you fear outside the Perimeter has been happening for a long time already and will continue to happen at an increasing pace regardless if development like Westport is allowed. It is better for the City to try and contain these developments and keep the tax base within the City than to allow them to occur outside their control.

One of the things that seems to really push urban density, and especially urban living, is long commute times. As Winnipeg continues to grow in population and size it will help drive further density in the core. The other reality there is unless we start attracting more employers to the core there is going to be little demand for increased office space which will in turn limit the growth of people in the core and limit demand for residential.

[vid]

I can see potential in Thunder Bay's Intercity area to become a mixed-use, high density hub for this city. When I was in Winnipeg, I considered Polo Park to be further along in that regard.

[JamieDavid Exchange]

Well, Toronto wants to be at top when it comes to their city wanting to expand their Convention Centre.Their proposed development will be ten times the amount of ours. 3 Billion.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakin...wn-toronto-173879021.html?device=mobile#

[Reed Solomon]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

Though I agree with both of you guys, I must point out a bit of irony here. I live downtown (Colony and Broadway) and take the bus to the MTS Iceplex 3 times a week. LOL!!!!

However, I am the only one on the bus by the time it hits Unicity, and I have never seen anyone else get off at St. Charles, like myself.

there might be more bus riders if the bus actually went to the destination people wanted to go.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by Reed Solomon

there might be more bus riders if the bus actually went to the destination people wanted to go.

Examples: Routes 82-84 and 86.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by armorand93

You should post more. I haven't been able to find much transit enthusiasts on here since Kinguni dissapeared from the board

Where did he go anyway?

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by JamieDavid Exchange

Well, Toronto wants to be at top when it comes to their city wanting to expand their Convention Centre.Their proposed development will be ten times the amount of ours. 3 Billion.

True but we have to put that in perspective .
The Golden Horseshoe has at least ten times the amount of people and Toronto itself is Canada's premier destination for business among other things .
We couldn't support a convention center that size because , for one thing , it has a very heavy multi-use component . Hotel , office , and residential towers far beyond what Winnipeg could possibly absorb in terms of space . Just one of those towers built in Winnipeg would probably take a decade to fill and still leave a ton of unused space in our core . It seems that the Toronto convention center was almost a second thought in that plan .

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by flatlander

Where did he go anyway?

He isn't active on CPTDB either, hasn't been since January 2012. No idea why he isn't posting on either anymore, sadly. On the other hand though, CPTDB is a warzone lately (I'm nearly banned from it), so maybe he's avoiding the forums because of that. He's also a Winnipeg Transit bus driver, and he might've just went back towards his job. I take quite a few transit pictures around Winnipeg, so maybe one day, he'll recongnize me with my camera. Until then though, we definitely lost an awesome user

[1ajs]

110 princess finally got boarded

[JamieDavid Exchange]

I don't remember if it was a for sale sign or a for lease sign, but nonetheless, the sign has been removed from the National Typewriter Building at Portage and Sherbrook.

Any ideas?