Winnipeg Construction

[CoryB]

I just saw that the Convention Centre expansion, which has been rumored to include two new hotels, will only include a single level of underground parking. Having been to the Convention Centre for some of their larger events I know the current lot easily fills up. The single level of underground parking will most likely have fewer spots than the surface lot did, yet demand is going to be increased.

While I am all for removing surface parking, we really need to stop approving development that does not properly increase the number of spots they are removing. I know some people will point to transit as a "solution" but that is a whole seperate level of hurt currently and we are likely 20+ years from that being anywhere near a real solution.

[flatlander]

I see that new windows are going in the building just north of the old Salvation Army Harbour Light Centre. I think i heard that building was a bathhouse years ago? And it was purchased recently along with the Harbour Light Centre? Nice to see something happening with that building.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Lane expansion on the east side of the MTS Centre. Odd...

I think it's part of the SHED work? Not sure exactly if it's lane expansion or what.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I just saw that the Convention Centre expansion, which has been rumored to include two new hotels, will only include a single level of underground parking. Having been to the Convention Centre for some of their larger events I know the current lot easily fills up. The single level of underground parking will most likely have fewer spots than the surface lot did, yet demand is going to be increased.

While I am all for removing surface parking, we really need to stop approving development that does not properly increase the number of spots they are removing. I know some people will point to transit as a "solution" but that is a whole seperate level of hurt currently and we are likely 20+ years from that being anywhere near a real solution.

Huh? Transit isn't a real solution to getting downtown? Better tell that to the thousands of people who use it to get to work downtwon everyday from every corner of the city.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I just saw that the Convention Centre expansion, which has been rumored to include two new hotels, will only include a single level of underground parking. Having been to the Convention Centre for some of their larger events I know the current lot easily fills up. The single level of underground parking will most likely have fewer spots than the surface lot did, yet demand is going to be increased.

From one of the proposal plans that i have seen, which included one level of underground parking, there were 185 spaces. I don't know how many spaces are in the surface lot that is now closed for the expansion, but most of the upcoming surface lot replacing projects (WCC, MPI, Centre Point) all require the developer to include a parking structure with at least as many spots as they are removing.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by flatlander

I see that new windows are going in the building just north of the old Salvation Army Harbour Light Centre. I think i heard that building was a bathhouse years ago? And it was purchased recently along with the Harbour Light Centre? Nice to see something happening with that building.

they have been working on it all year

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Lane expansion on the east side of the MTS Centre. Odd...

No, sidewalk expansion. They are expanding the sidewalks around that whole area.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I just saw that the Convention Centre expansion, which has been rumored to include two new hotels, will only include a single level of underground parking. Having been to the Convention Centre for some of their larger events I know the current lot easily fills up. The single level of underground parking will most likely have fewer spots than the surface lot did, yet demand is going to be increased.

While I am all for removing surface parking, we really need to stop approving development that does not properly increase the number of spots they are removing. I know some people will point to transit as a "solution" but that is a whole seperate level of hurt currently and we are likely 20+ years from that being anywhere near a real solution.

You mean cars aren't the key focal point in development? Well shoot me dead. What is this world coming to?

[dpenner]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

You mean cars aren't the key focal point in development? Well shoot me dead. What is this world coming to?

in fairness developments like convention centres and entertainment districts are car dependent in a city like winnipeg where there is no downtown residential population

[chrisallard5454]

On a side note, the CMHR has expanded its construction space, and the fencing has been moved to — right against the skatepark. It seems as if Landscaping has begun. They have dug out the path (the broadway path) and dug out everything right to the roots of the trees.

I have a question about the road construction at the Forks. On the South West corner of CMHR they have been doing road construction for quite a while now. They just poured the concrete, that leads to two questions.

Is there a reason for the brown tinge of the concrete? I am not saying it is a bad thing, it is just completely different than what is currently there.

Also, why is it six inches higher than the current road, on both North and South bound?

This is leading me to believe that it will be a raised pedestrian crosswalk. But I am not completely sure? Any thoughts?

Here is a pic I took yesterday while making my daily trek past the museum.

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by dpenner

in fairness developments like convention centres and entertainment districts are car dependent in a city like winnipeg where there is no downtown residential population

Convention Centres are made for people outside of the city coming in. People who require transit, and Taxi's. If there is one development that doesn't need as much parking as others, this would be it wouldn't it? A large percentage of the population is not local.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

On a side note, the CMHR has expanded its construction space, and the fencing has been moved to — right against the skatepark. It seems as if Landscaping has begun. They have dug out the path (the broadway path) and dug out everything right to the roots of the trees.

I have a question about the road construction at the Forks. On the South West corner of CMHR they have been doing road construction for quite a while now. They just poured the concrete, that leads to two questions.

Is there a reason for the brown tinge of the concrete? I am not saying it is a bad thing, it is just completely different than what is currently there.

Also, why is it six inches higher than the current road, on both North and South bound?

This is leading me to believe that it will be a raised pedestrian crosswalk. But I am not completely sure? Any thoughts?

Transit station? It'd explain the raised sidewalks, so low-floor bus entry will nearly be level with the curb. Plus Winnipeg Transit would need to serve the CMHR, and its hordes of tourists and workers.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by chrisallard5454

Convention Centres are made for people outside of the city coming in. People who require transit, and Taxi's. If there is one development that doesn't need as much parking as others, this would be it wouldn't it? A large percentage of the population is not local.

however, many business people do tend to rent cars as well

and there are functions where convention centres bring people from the city or by car

don't forget that parking lot used to be filled with some cars of people who paid monthly passes to work nearby

185 spaces isn't bad especially if it replaces the surface lot and brings other workers there

I'm not suggesting I wouldn't prefer a transit friendly development but parking has become a reality in this city (and others)...its best to accommodate both and I feel parkades in general, underground or not, are the best way to replace empty lots with some sort of development on top or nearby, increasing the amount of available developmental land while maintaining parking space for cars, thus not disrupting those who choose to use cars as the primary method of travel

[Jack1983]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I just saw that the Convention Centre expansion, which has been rumored to include two new hotels, will only include a single level of underground parking. Having been to the Convention Centre for some of their larger events I know the current lot easily fills up. The single level of underground parking will most likely have fewer spots than the surface lot did, yet demand is going to be increased.

While I am all for removing surface parking, we really need to stop approving development that does not properly increase the number of spots they are removing. I know some people will point to transit as a "solution" but that is a whole seperate level of hurt currently and we are likely 20+ years from that being anywhere near a real solution.

The one level of parking likely has something to do with high groundwater levels in the downtown area. The original design for Manitoba Hydro Place underground parking called for 2 levels of parking. Once construction began they found that the groundwater table was too high and could not have economically constructed and maintained the second level.

[OmarVP]

I have been in this city for only two years and it is already clear to me that this city LOVES its cars, a lot of people here criticizes this and they have a good point, but the fact that the majority of people in Winnipeg prefer cars (or even hate buses) remains. Until the city change its preference any development will have to adapt to reality not to wishful thinking, and change in this matter will not be possible by imposition but by offering better alternatives.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

however, many business people do tend to rent cars as well

and there are functions where convention centres bring people from the city or by car

don't forget that parking lot used to be filled with some cars of people who paid monthly passes to work nearby

185 spaces isn't bad especially if it replaces the surface lot and brings other workers there

I'm not suggesting I wouldn't prefer a transit friendly development but parking has become a reality in this city (and others)...its best to accommodate both and I feel parkades in general, underground or not, are the best way to replace empty lots with some sort of development on top or nearby, increasing the amount of available developmental land while maintaining parking space for cars, thus not disrupting those who choose to use cars as the primary method of travel

The reality of the transit situation is that large pockets on the city are under serviced and that will take a long time to change. Further, to really shift the balance for a car focused city to a transit focused one the rapid transit infrastructure needs to be significantly built out. Currently, I live in the city and the closest transit service is about a 30 minute walk along high speed routes with no sidewalks.

As for the Convention Center expansion, the surface lot had space for 284 vehicles, with reports the underground will have 185, a reduction of over 33% even before taking into accounts the hold backs that will be in place for both hotels.

Based on similar developments in the area, the Carlton Square (aka Delta Hotel, etc) has six or more levels of underground parking and the original Convention Center has two levels. This seems to suggest it would be possible to have done at least one extra level which would likely have ended up close to the surface lot with demand still being increased.

My concern over parking in downtown is it goes to the overall cost of living in Winnipeg. The reality is for a variety of reasons, parking in downtown is a necessity for lots of people. Increasing that from the current average of $160 to something like the over $300 a month many Canadian cities are seeing is going to hurt lots of people and drive up the number of working poor we have. Transit rates have rapidly been increasing keeping pace with being about 50% the cost of monthly parking downtown. Based on these projections, monthly transit could be $150 is about five years time with little change in wages.

Some of my information came from the Costiler Parking in the Core article in the Winnipeg Free Press.

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The reality of the transit situation is that large pockets on the city are under serviced and that will take a long time to change. Further, to really shift the balance for a car focused city to a transit focused one the rapid transit infrastructure needs to be significantly built out. Currently, I live in the city and the closest transit service is about a 30 minute walk along high speed routes with no sidewalks.

As for the Convention Center expansion, the surface lot had space for 284 vehicles, with reports the underground will have 185, a reduction of over 33% even before taking into accounts the hold backs that will be in place for both hotels.

Based on similar developments in the area, the Carlton Square (aka Delta Hotel, etc) has six or more levels of underground parking and the original Convention Center has two levels. This seems to suggest it would be possible to have done at least one extra level which would likely have ended up close to the surface lot with demand still being increased.

My concern over parking in downtown is it goes to the overall cost of living in Winnipeg. The reality is for a variety of reasons, parking in downtown is a necessity for lots of people. Increasing that from the current average of $160 to something like the over $300 a month many Canadian cities are seeing is going to hurt lots of people and drive up the number of working poor we have. Transit rates have rapidly been increasing keeping pace with being about 50% the cost of monthly parking downtown. Based on these projections, monthly transit could be $150 is about five years time with little change in wages.

Some of my information came from the Costiler Parking in the Core article in the Winnipeg Free Press.

Great points, and I don't really disagree with any of this

I am also a little concerned about the decrease in parking spaces, by 100 or so spots, but then again there are more ancillary parking spots nearby...or perhaps that lot never filled up completely? Perhaps, the WCC views they are not decreasing parking spots by 99 but rather adding 185 to their present two levels?

Who knows. They must have a reason for not maintaining the 284 spaces.


Was that lot owned by WCC originally or did they have to purchase it for the expansion?

[chrisallard5454]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The reality of the transit situation is that large pockets on the city are under serviced and that will take a long time to change. Further, to really shift the balance for a car focused city to a transit focused one the rapid transit infrastructure needs to be significantly built out. Currently, I live in the city and the closest transit service is about a 30 minute walk along high speed routes with no sidewalks.

As for the Convention Center expansion, the surface lot had space for 284 vehicles, with reports the underground will have 185, a reduction of over 33% even before taking into accounts the hold backs that will be in place for both hotels.

Based on similar developments in the area, the Carlton Square (aka Delta Hotel, etc) has six or more levels of underground parking and the original Convention Center has two levels. This seems to suggest it would be possible to have done at least one extra level which would likely have ended up close to the surface lot with demand still being increased.

My concern over parking in downtown is it goes to the overall cost of living in Winnipeg. The reality is for a variety of reasons, parking in downtown is a necessity for lots of people. Increasing that from the current average of $160 to something like the over $300 a month many Canadian cities are seeing is going to hurt lots of people and drive up the number of working poor we have. Transit rates have rapidly been increasing keeping pace with being about 50% the cost of monthly parking downtown. Based on these projections, monthly transit could be $150 is about five years time with little change in wages.

Some of my information came from the Costiler Parking in the Core article in the Winnipeg Free Press.

I don't see Winnipeg transit rising at a significant rate faster than any other city. One thing we have to remember is that Winnipeg has one of the cheapest parking rates in the Country. So we really can't complain. As well Winnipeg has the cheapest transit rate of any city that I have lived in (Even Guelph, ON a city of 100 000 charges 3.00 per ride as opposed to our 2.45), and is far cheaper than the major cities in the Country, with far better Bus service than most cities its size. Not sure where I was going with this, just wanted to make sure we were clear on those two topics.

I think people are becoming a little spoiled in this city. Maybe in this country. I will explain tomorrow. Right now I am going to bed. As can be seen by my lack of structure in my sentences I am extremely tired. Goodnight everyone!

[armorand93]

You know guys, our pool ol' Transit thread could really use a discussion. Instead of collecting dust and letting me post there repeatedly by myself, making it look like I'm crazy...

[Darren Tate]

Originally Posted by OmarVP

I have been in this city for only two years and it is already clear to me that this city LOVES its cars, a lot of people here criticizes this and they have a good point, but the fact that the majority of people in Winnipeg prefer cars (or even hate buses) remains. Until the city change its preference any development will have to adapt to reality not to wishful thinking, and change in this matter will not be possible by imposition but by offering better alternatives.

There's a reason why they love their cars so much. Winnipeg is a sprawling city with mediocre (but slowly improving) public transit. Waiting for a bus in January is no treat either—unless you're lucky enough to be in a heated shelter. Give it a few more years, you'll wish you had a car too—unless things improve faster than they have been. But Winnipeg is not the only city with public transit woes. Vancouver's, for example, is a seriously maxed-out mess—and they recently cut plans for much-needed expansion. Toronto's system sounds like a total gong show too.