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  #2541  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 6:30 PM
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I don't think anybody is suggesting that if you drop somebody in Ottawa or Edmonton they are going to think they are in New York... And obviously population isn't everything. There are many factors that can account for the character of a place. Halifax, for example 'feels' bigger than most other cities I have been to of a similar size. Part of the reason looking at population can be so interesting is that sometimes it doesn't line up with how a city feels. I think it is nearly impossible to take two places like Winnipeg and Edmonton and try to quantify the difference that few hundred thousand makes. But if you started in canadian cities of around 300,000-400,000, and kept going to bigger cities until you were in those around a million, I think there are trends. Certainly not finite thresholds of what population levels produce certain things. It isn't a hard set rule, but it can sure be a helpful place to start. I do think a big problem with population is just the way we think about numbers. To most 1 million just sounds way bigger than 900,000 whereas 1.2 million and 1 million sounds about the same.

In terms of the Trans-Canada thing, I could definately also see the geographical location playing a part. The portion where the Yellowhead highway splits off is also pretty far north in relation to the where the vast majority of the Canadian population is....
     
     
  #2542  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 7:24 PM
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  #2543  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 7:26 PM
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Great picture that shows Altitude's full impact from this angle. Sadly, none of the Griffintown, Nun's island, Bell centre projects or even the Marriott or even the Altoria will be visible from this angle. The CHUM however, will have a great visual impact.
     
     
  #2544  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 8:16 PM
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Actually, Altoria will be very much visible beside the Banque Nationale building...
     
     
  #2545  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 10:43 PM
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I have to agree with someone123. I've lived in a few mid sized cities and there is not a huge qualitative difference between places like Ottawa, Halifax or London, ON. You don't usually get the big city critical mass until you're up past a couple million people. Is Edmonton really a "bigger" city than Winnipeg?
Its not really, no but the difference between Halifax and Edmonton is more pronounced than "not really any difference" I feel.

That said, the same could be said between larger cities - to some people Toronto might feel larger than London even though London is in fact the (much) larger and more "world class" city, simply because of certain features like the skyline in Toronto is more grand (imo) than London's any day.

Perhaps skyline plays a big role? Calgary feels 3x larger than it really is at times, largely if not borderline exclusively due to the skyline factor. There are tons and tons of tall office towers all over the place downtown, in such a greater number than other mid sized Canadian cities that it "seems" to put Calgary in a league of its own... in fact to me Calgary feels larger than Ottawa, which also feels about the same size as Winnipeg, even though technically Ottawa has a larger CMA than either two cities.

I don't know what I meant to say, but its more along the lines of sometimes one additional landmark in a smaller city can change the entire perception of that city and make it feel larger than or more in league with another city of similar size, whereas with larger cities...I mean look at all the skyscrapers being built in Toronto...doesn't really change Toronto the way it would change a smaller city

However, there certainly is truth to there being a more discernible difference between Toronto and Halifax, than there is with Edmonton and Halifax, that I agree with

But I meant comparatively within larger or smaller cities, respectively, I feel its tougher to feel and see the difference with Toronto vs Chicago than with Edmonton vs Halifax (and Chicago's metro is more populous than Toronto's after all, much more so than the difference between Edmonton and Halifax)

Though this may just be me

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Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte View Post
I don't think anybody is suggesting that if you drop somebody in Ottawa or Edmonton they are going to think they are in New York... And obviously population isn't everything. There are many factors that can account for the character of a place. Halifax, for example 'feels' bigger than most other cities I have been to of a similar size. Part of the reason looking at population can be so interesting is that sometimes it doesn't line up with how a city feels. I think it is nearly impossible to take two places like Winnipeg and Edmonton and try to quantify the difference that few hundred thousand makes. But if you started in canadian cities of around 300,000-400,000, and kept going to bigger cities until you were in those around a million, I think there are trends. Certainly not finite thresholds of what population levels produce certain things. It isn't a hard set rule, but it can sure be a helpful place to start. I do think a big problem with population is just the way we think about numbers. To most 1 million just sounds way bigger than 900,000 whereas 1.2 million and 1 million sounds about the same.

In terms of the Trans-Canada thing, I could definately also see the geographical location playing a part. The portion where the Yellowhead highway splits off is also pretty far north in relation to the where the vast majority of the Canadian population is....
This is a good point. There are "mental barriers" people do possess for sure

There is always going to be a certain population all over the place that over estimates or under estimates



That picture of QC is very nice btw
     
     
  #2546  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 11:24 PM
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  #2547  
Old Posted Sep 28, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
Its not really, no but the difference between Halifax and Edmonton is more pronounced than "not really any difference" I feel.

That said, the same could be said between larger cities - to some people Toronto might feel larger than London even though London is in fact the (much) larger and more "world class" city, simply because of certain features like the skyline in Toronto is more grand (imo) than London's any day.

Perhaps skyline plays a big role? Calgary feels 3x larger than it really is at times, largely if not borderline exclusively due to the skyline factor. There are tons and tons of tall office towers all over the place downtown, in such a greater number than other mid sized Canadian cities that it "seems" to put Calgary in a league of its own... in fact to me Calgary feels larger than Ottawa, which also feels about the same size as Winnipeg, even though technically Ottawa has a larger CMA than either two cities.

I don't know what I meant to say, but its more along the lines of sometimes one additional landmark in a smaller city can change the entire perception of that city and make it feel larger than or more in league with another city of similar size, whereas with larger cities...I mean look at all the skyscrapers being built in Toronto...doesn't really change Toronto the way it would change a smaller city

However, there certainly is truth to there being a more discernible difference between Toronto and Halifax, than there is with Edmonton and Halifax, that I agree with

But I meant comparatively within larger or smaller cities, respectively, I feel its tougher to feel and see the difference with Toronto vs Chicago than with Edmonton vs Halifax (and Chicago's metro is more populous than Toronto's after all, much more so than the difference between Edmonton and Halifax)

Though this may just be me



This is a good point. There are "mental barriers" people do possess for sure

There is always going to be a certain population all over the place that over estimates or under estimates



That picture of QC is very nice btw
There was a thread somewhere here a few weeks ago where we attempted to quantitatively define what makes a city feel "big". There was quite a variety of answers, so it's pretty difficult to pin it down for sure.

I definitely agree: At least to me, the skyline makes a really big difference. Even though I know Edmonton is within 100k people of Calgary's population, when I take the train to work in the morning and take in the view of Calgary's skyline from SAIT, I always look up, and it just makes the city feel gigantic every single time. That's a sensation I've never gotten in Edmonton (not to knock their skyline... it also punches way above its weight).

But, in Calgary, that "big city feel" manages to disappear entirely in certain areas outside of the core. When all you can see is suburbs and strip malls, it really doesn't feel very different from Grand Prairie or something. Though, that affliction is hardly exclusive to Calgary.

And, of course, there are loads of other factors. I was in Berlin about a month ago, and while it doesn't have much of a skyline, it most definitely still feels like a gigantic city. The Haubtbahnhof, the transit system in general, the consistently high density, the general "bustle", the architecture... all of it contributes. But, no two people will perceive things exactly the same.
     
     
  #2548  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 1:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floobie View Post
There was a thread somewhere here a few weeks ago where we attempted to quantitatively define what makes a city feel "big". There was quite a variety of answers, so it's pretty difficult to pin it down for sure.

I definitely agree: At least to me, the skyline makes a really big difference. Even though I know Edmonton is within 100k people of Calgary's population, when I take the train to work in the morning and take in the view of Calgary's skyline from SAIT, I always look up, and it just makes the city feel gigantic every single time. That's a sensation I've never gotten in Edmonton (not to knock their skyline... it also punches way above its weight).

But, in Calgary, that "big city feel" manages to disappear entirely in certain areas outside of the core. When all you can see is suburbs and strip malls, it really doesn't feel very different from Grand Prairie or something. Though, that affliction is hardly exclusive to Calgary.

And, of course, there are loads of other factors. I was in Berlin about a month ago, and while it doesn't have much of a skyline, it most definitely still feels like a gigantic city. The Haubtbahnhof, the transit system in general, the consistently high density, the general "bustle", the architecture... all of it contributes. But, no two people will perceive things exactly the same.
Precisely, your description of Berlin sounds very similar to how London or Paris feels to me.

The skyline impact is a large factor, and if we look at Birmingham (second largest city in the UK) it is about 3x more populated than Calgary but feels smaller than Calgary downtown (or "inner city" as is said in the UK) for sure.

And I agree with the impact a skyline can have - coming back from Cochrane down Crowchild gives that same "whoa" feeling, or coming down Deerfoot or Memorial and seeing the towering Bow...

even driving into Regina, seeing the towers from a distance gives a stronger impact than the lack of that driving into Winnipeg in the other direction, and that impact no doubt plays into perceptions

I also agree with living outside, in the suburbs of Calgary for instance or even driving around the city; as spread out as it is, it doesn't take much longer to traverse than Edmonton or Ottawa or even Winnipeg, and they all look the same in that respect. So where one visits in a city and how they visit can also affect that "impact" so to speak
     
     
  #2549  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 2:05 AM
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  #2550  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 2:08 AM
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This one is my fave, but i can't seem to post the image on here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68725998@N02/8033007414/lightbox/
     
     
  #2551  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 4:46 AM
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This one is my fave, but i can't seem to post the image on here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/68725998@N02/8033007414/lightbox/
spectacular!
     
     
  #2552  
Old Posted Sep 29, 2012, 3:36 PM
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I just posted these shots from my place on Instagram:





     
     
  #2553  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2012, 1:44 AM
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Nice pictures vanman, the Shangri la is stunning! (its even better when seen in person).

Montreal skyline, not downtown.

by pegase1972 on flickr
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5268/5673841642_06982abd47_b.jpg
     
     
  #2554  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2012, 4:06 AM
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Wow, not normally a big Calgary skyline fan (unusual I know), but can't deny the beauty of Spring2008's shots! Quebec and Vancouver looking amazing as always.
     
     
  #2555  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 5:49 PM
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  #2556  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 5:55 PM
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That last pic gave me a weird little illusion as I was scrolling down that the smaller Suncor building was actually the bigger one and every tower around was just massive.

Maybe one day.
     
     
  #2557  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 6:47 PM
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Originally Posted by roccerfeller View Post
to some people Toronto might feel larger than London

nobody who has been to both cities would ever think this. not in a million years.
     
     
  #2558  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 7:16 PM
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By far my favorite angle.
Its really flattering as it masks the height gap between the bow and suncor cluster and the 9th ave cluster but still showcases all of our tallest buildings.

Show that to an american and they will think its a city of at least 3 million people

Last edited by patm; Oct 1, 2012 at 7:29 PM.
     
     
  #2559  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 7:34 PM
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  #2560  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2012, 7:42 PM
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nobody who has been to both cities would ever think this. not in a million years.
Considering Roccerfeller is from London, I think he would know more than you sir.
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