New Downtown Calgary Arena - Page 45

You Need A Thneed · #**881** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 3:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbia

If it was stadium, arena and convention centre, that is easily $1.5B+ right there, plus at least an additional $500M of immediate development in the vicinity. That scale would be enough to make people think seriously about realignments and the like. Such a realignment could dovetail into an improvement for Crowchild in that vicinity also, yes?

I agree. Such a project could need a space where cleaning up contaminated ground and realigning roads could be the easiest option. $50+ million to do that might be the preferred option. If the owners wanted to a combined project like that, they would need a big parcel of land, and there aren't too many inner city options.

DizzyEdge · #**882** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 5:43 AM**

Re: football stadiums not having much use

Would it make sense than that of any stadium/arena that the football one should be designed for multiple uses? (concerts, convention, etc)

MalcolmTucker · #**883** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 3:17 PM**

Adding football to a multiuse enclosed space isn't going to bring in enough revenue to make up for the marginal cost compared to even a new modern outdoor park.

BC might be a special case - do they have a trade show area like BMO, Expo Centre, or Direct Energy? Then again, is BC Place enclosed enough now to host a car show in the middle of winter?

Innersoul1 · #**884** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wooster

The problem with West Village is the huge costs associated with any sort of development - realigning Bow Trail, cleaning up the massive contamination (creosote), etc.

This is the reason why it won't happen in the West Village. The Flames as an ownership group don't have the money to mess around with time or money. If they run into any reclamation issues in the West Village it would cost bundles of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McMurph

I actually am curious about whether there are any good precedents for how to site a football stadium in a mixed-use, pedestrian friendly neighbourhood. It seems like a lot of building to walk around when it's not in use. That's the same problem I've got with convention centres, even when they're great architecture. Siting these things on otherwise largely unusable land (like along the tracks) seems like a better option than right beside the river.

I don't think that North America has really accomplished this. The best examples are in Europe where stadia are located smack in the middle of neighbourhoods or business districts.

s211 · #**885** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 5:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I don't think that North America has really accomplished this. The best examples are in Europe where stadia are located smack in the middle of neighbourhoods or business districts.

Fenway Park, perhaps?

Calgarian · #**886** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 5:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

This is the reason why it won't happen in the West Village. The Flames as an ownership group don't have the money to mess around with time or money. If they run into any reclamation issues in the West Village it would cost bundles of money.

The same could be said for any private development there then. I think the key is funding from the city and province for the re-alignment and remediation. Seeing how messy the funding issue is getting in Edmonton, I'm not holding my breath for anything involving a new arena or stadium for a while.

You Need A Thneed · #**887** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 5:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by s211

Fenway Park, perhaps?

Wrigley Field, too.

DizzyEdge · #**888** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 7:36 PM**

Wrigley Field would be interesting to try to mimic, it would be like just clearing 2 blocks in Sunnyside and building a stadium with no parking.

MalcolmTucker · #**889** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 7:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian

The same could be said for any private development there then. I think the key is funding from the city and province for the re-alignment and remediation. Seeing how messy the funding issue is getting in Edmonton, I'm not holding my breath for anything involving a new arena or stadium for a while.

A TIF will be far riskier for the west village in my mind, can't just change the district boundaries to move a new office tower into the district to make sure you look net positive on paper. That being said, it isn't like TIFs raise new money anyways, they are just a good way to present to the public the costs, advantages, and risks of subsidy to new development.

fusili · #**890** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 8:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A TIF will be far riskier for the west village in my mind, can't just change the district boundaries to move a new office tower into the district to make sure you look net positive on paper. That being said, it isn't like TIFs raise new money anyways, they are just a good way to present to the public the costs, advantages, and risks of subsidy to new development.

Whatever do you mean? It's not like we have ever adjusted a TIF boundary artificially to include an office tower to make it look good on paper, say between 6th and 5th avenue and just east of Centre st....... wait a minute!!!

monocle · #**891** Posted **Sep 19, 2012, 10:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calgarian

...Seeing how messy the funding issue is getting in Edmonton, I'm not holding my breath for anything involving a new arena or stadium for a while.

This makes me think it (new arena/convention centre) will be at least touching the Stampede grounds if not actually on the grounds itself because of the cozy and lucrative relations the City/Flames/Stampede share. Our team's owners have been involved for 30 years, and have repoire with the City and CS. CS and the City have a mutually beneficial relationship. They probably all want the same outcome, where as Katz is a big fish in a small pond out for his bottom line first and foremost.

I'm still betting on the Bus Barns/over the tracks across from FT Calgary for both the arena and convention centre. OK just hoping, as I have it on zero authority.

Calgarian · #**892** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 1:21 AM**

I thought the Flames and Stampede weren't so close anymore, don't know where I heard that though...

Surferguy · #**893** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 2:56 PM**

how about this for an idea,

The creosote would have to be remediated via a dig and dump style excavation. If that was the case could they not bury the hockey stadium underneath the football stadium?? Dig a hole, get rid of the shitty dirt, build a hockey stadium then cap it and build a football/soccer stadium.

By stacking them, you are left with one footprint and the ability to build convention centre space??? Kind of like MSG in NYC with several event spaces stacked.

Flame away...

Innersoul1 · #**894** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 3:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surferguy

how about this for an idea,

The creosote would have to be remediated via a dig and dump style excavation. If that was the case could they not bury the hockey stadium underneath the football stadium?? Dig a hole, get rid of the shitty dirt, build a hockey stadium then cap it and build a football/soccer stadium.

By stacking them, you are left with one footprint and the ability to build convention centre space??? Kind of like MSG in NYC with several event spaces stacked.

Flame away...

Novel concept, but I think at that particular location the water table would really come into play.

kw5150 · #**895** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 3:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surferguy

how about this for an idea,

The creosote would have to be remediated via a dig and dump style excavation. If that was the case could they not bury the hockey stadium underneath the football stadium?? Dig a hole, get rid of the shitty dirt, build a hockey stadium then cap it and build a football/soccer stadium.

By stacking them, you are left with one footprint and the ability to build convention centre space??? Kind of like MSG in NYC with several event spaces stacked.

Flame away...

That could be cool if done right and the hockey stadium didnt feel like a bunker. I imagine the engineering costs would be astronomical.....the construction would be more like showing off than building something purely functional.

Surferguy · #**896** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 3:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Novel concept, but I think at that particular location the water table would really come into play.

True, thought about that but then decided I would leave that problem for more educated people.

Regarding the bunker comment above from KW, I honestly don't think it would be any different from the current stadium.

I cannot say once inside the stadium I ever remember trying to see sunlight from outside, it just does not factor in. Furthermore, games and concerts are usually at night and mostly in winter so IMO the bunker thought line would be no different from current standards. At the saddledome at least

kw5150 · #**897** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 3:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surferguy

True, thought about that but then decided I would leave that problem for more educated people.

Regarding the bunker comment above from KW, I honestly don't think it would be any different from the current stadium.

I cannot say once inside the stadium I ever remember trying to see sunlight from outside, it just does not factor in. Furthermore, games and concerts are usually at night and mostly in winter so IMO the bunker thought line would be no different from current standards. At the saddledome at least

Except, knowing that you are going deep down into a space has a psychological effect and can harbor feelings of being trapped. in the event of an emergency, the bunker effect could be really bad. They would almost need massive lightwells in the circulation areas and grand escape stairways out of the space.

MalcolmTucker · #**898** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 3:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

Novel concept, but I think at that particular location the water table would really come into play.

Well, that would give us a good nickname. The flaming bathtub!

nick.flood · #**899** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 3:50 PM**

delete

DizzyEdge · #**900** Posted **Sep 20, 2012, 4:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surferguy

how about this for an idea,

The creosote would have to be remediated via a dig and dump style excavation. If that was the case could they not bury the hockey stadium underneath the football stadium?? Dig a hole, get rid of the shitty dirt, build a hockey stadium then cap it and build a football/soccer stadium.

By stacking them, you are left with one footprint and the ability to build convention centre space??? Kind of like MSG in NYC with several event spaces stacked.

Flame away...

I seem to recall such an idea being mentioned in the past and the issue was you couldn't have the huge open center area without supports that a stadium/arena demands, and still support something on top of it.