Ottawa Rapid Transit Network developments

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

O-Train service expansion coming soon.

Still no Gladstone station?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Still no Gladstone station?

This report says that the extra O-Train capacity will be needed to accommodate extra riders while Hurdman is closed for LRT construction, and recommends that a station at Gladstone be looked at only following the opening of the LRT.

[McC]

and no Walkley Station either, even though they want to encourage people from the south to approach downtown from the west, instead of on the SE Transitway during the conversion, and even though they have to putting a passing track and force a slow down right near there too, just like at Gladstone. So stupid and shortsighted.

[J.OT13]

I remember the developers of the new Marriott next to the would be Walkley Station offered the city money for the station back when the N/S was the talk of the day. And of course Carleton wanted to build on top, but we will have to wait for conversion to electrically powered rail.

As for Gladstone, once the O-Train re-opens, they need to look into a station fast before developers start building in the area.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

This report says that the extra O-Train capacity will be needed to accommodate extra riders while Hurdman is closed for LRT construction, and recommends that a station at Gladstone be looked at only following the opening of the LRT.

So, maybe 25 or 30 years after the O-train began, there might be one new station added?

[S-Man]

Sigh. The distance between Bayview and Carling O-Train stations isn't a walk, it's a hike. There are a lot of people who would probably like to use it but aren't going to trek to Carling or Bayview just to get on. Walkley is a missed opportunity, especially with the development going on next to the line there. I'd rather hop on the train to Bayview and transfer then take the Transitway if I were to live there.

While the improvements are good, it isn't enough. When completed, it will make the O-Train more convenient for riers, but won't attract MORE riders, except from eventual developments near existing stations. It's too bad the Gladstone and Walkley stations couldn't be added at the same time, as well as a southern extension of the line.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Sigh. The distance between Bayview and Carling O-Train stations isn't a walk, it's a hike. There are a lot of people who would probably like to use it but aren't going to trek to Carling or Bayview just to get on. Walkley is a missed opportunity, especially with the development going on next to the line there. I'd rather hop on the train to Bayview and transfer then take the Transitway if I were to live there.

While the improvements are good, it isn't enough. When completed, it will make the O-Train more convenient for riers, but won't attract MORE riders, except from eventual developments near existing stations. It's too bad the Gladstone and Walkley stations couldn't be added at the same time, as well as a southern extension of the line.

What is happening is what we voted for in 2006. This will likely be the last improvement that we will see to the O-Train from now until at least 2031. We are doing what the electorate wanted. Build east-west and that is it. With the debt that the city is taking on, it will be very difficult to even build the western extension in this time frame. We could, of course, slash bus service substantially to fund LRT. Is that what we want?

By the way, how is everybody enjoying the Baseline hole in the ground that we paid for?

[Richard Eade]

According to Councilor Harder, at the August 29, 2012 Council meeting in regard to the Ottawa Lands Development Corp 2011 report, the design for the permanent Baseline Station is in the final stages and this will lead to the opening of the tunnel for use. She was not definitive as to when the new station design would be approved, financed, and built so that the tunnel could be useful.

[S-Man]

The Baseline tunnel needs an exit, first and foremost, and is supposed to enter into a grade-separated busway south to Norice St., I believe. I'm not aware of any action on those parts, but I could be wrong.

Wasn't the station/tunnel part of the 2009/10 infrastructure action plan? I thought there were three levels of funding for that project. i remember Bob Chiarelli campaigning on site even before there was an election called.

[Richard Eade]

Yes, the tunnel was part of the infrastructure stimulus spending; that is why it was built so far in advance of when it will be needed. If we had waited to build it until we were ready for it, there might not have been the same level of funding from other government levels.

And again, Yes, the penultimate plan is to have a below grade Bus Transitway (ultimately to be converted to LRT) running south from the Baseline Station to Barrhaven. This Transitway will have a station at Tallwood for access to the Ottawa Archives (which apparently is such a popular destination that it requires a station of its own). Unfortunately, there are geotechnical issues with the Tallwood underpass (the dreaded ‘Running Sand’) which are seriously delaying that section and making it very expensive.

In the nearer-term, it is likely that the new Baseline station will be built to the south of College Avenue, as currently planned, with ramps dropping from the south transit entrance to the tunnel’s level. Basically, the ramps from grade at the south end to the future Transitway level would replace the Baseline Park & Ride lot. This will complicate the future extension of the Transitway south, but it does get the tunnel and Baseline Station in use sooner.

Getting the tunnel in use is important because then the ‘Temporary’ Baseline Station can be removed so that the land it occupies can be developed.

Once the new Baseline Station has been completed, there will be an additional pedestrian bridge from the station over College Avenue to the ACCE building. This should encourage students to walk to and from the station through the overpasses (including the recent one over Woodroffe). As it is now, there is probably still about 70% (my estimate) of the students still using the crosswalk at College Avenue to cross Woodroffe because the surface route is shorter and flatter than going to the bridge. This is unfortunate since the roadway modifications added right-turn channels to speed vehicle movements at all four corners of that intersection. Not only does it make for faster traffic, it reduced the pedestrian waiting area from the entire corner area to a small island; which does not have the capacity to hold the waiting people so they spill out onto the lanes. The intersection ‘improvements’ have made this a less safe crossing for pedestrians.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

And again, Yes, the penultimate plan is to have a below grade Bus Transitway (ultimately to be converted to LRT) running south from the Baseline Station to Barrhaven. This Transitway will have a station at Tallwood for access to the Ottawa Archives (which apparently is such a popular destination that it requires a station of its own). Unfortunately, there are geotechnical issues with the Tallwood underpass (the dreaded ‘Running Sand’) which are seriously delaying that section and making it very expensive.

As it is now, there is probably still about 70% (my estimate) of the students still using the crosswalk at College Avenue to cross Woodroffe because the surface route is shorter and flatter than going to the bridge.

Will the Tallwood station be underground? If so, that will be one dumb move. We're doing everything we can for the cheapest western rail route, but the city is ready to waste millions on a station that will see close to no ridership.

I would also point to a similar problem with the potential connection between St-Laurent station and the federal lands to the south; tunnel vs. bridge.

It seems to me that if they opt to build a bridge (over Tremblay, over the Queensway, once it gets to St-Laurent station, where does it connect? The mall? stairs down to the surface transfer station? it has to clear the buses) it would cause similar problems as the Woodrofe overpass where walking up 50+ feet to go back down 15 meters underground would discourage people from taking transit.

But if we build a tunnel (well lit with possibly some retail to make it safer), it would connect directly to the subway station's mezzanine and the St-Laurent shopping centre. And since it would be flatter, it would make for less distance to walk.

We also have the question of climate control, easier in a tunnel fully protected from the outdoor weather than a glass bridge nearly a kilometer long.

[Cre47]

The Rapibus service proposals are now available.

http://libreauquotidien.sto.ca/proposition-services.php
http://libreauquotidien.sto.ca/services-proposal.php

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Will the Tallwood station be underground? If so, that will be one dumb move. We're doing everything we can for the cheapest western rail route, but the city is ready to waste millions on a station that will see close to no ridership.

As originally envisioned, the Tallwood Station would have been below grade since the Transitway was to pass under Tallwood Drive. With the geotechnical problems, there has been some thought that the Transitway might need to go over Tallwood Drive instead. That would mean an elevated station. But going up involves geotechnical problems of its own since the ground has low bearing capacity. I think that the preferred plan is still to put the Transitway and Tallwood Station below grade by casting the trench walls before digging out the cut. Remember, this area is like a clay bowl filled with sand and water. The trick will be to not lower the ground water so that the surrounding ground subsides; since the long-term care facility beside it is sitting on a slab foundation.

It is believed that having an at-grade crossing of Tallwood Drive is not manageable due to expected traffic and bus volumes and the proximity of the Meadowlands/Tallwood/Woodroffe intersection.

I would also point to a similar problem with the potential connection between St-Laurent station and the federal lands to the south; tunnel vs. bridge.

It seems to me that if they opt to build a bridge (over Tremblay, over the Queensway, once it gets to St-Laurent station, where does it connect? The mall? stairs down to the surface transfer station? it has to clear the buses) it would cause similar problems as the Woodroffe overpass where walking up 50+ feet to go back down 15 meters underground would discourage people from taking transit.

But if we build a tunnel (well lit with possibly some retail to make it safer), it would connect directly to the subway station's mezzanine and the St-Laurent shopping centre. And since it would be flatter, it would make for less distance to walk.

We also have the question of climate control, easier in a tunnel fully protected from the outdoor weather than a glass bridge nearly a kilometer long.

I expect to see a bridge connection similar to the one from the Telesat lands to the Blair Station. I have not heard any talk of tunneling under the 417. There seems to be the belief that people, in general, prefer to be elevated as opposed to being in tunnels.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I expect to see a bridge connection similar to the one from the Telesat lands to the Blair Station. I have not heard any talk of tunneling under the 417. There seems to be the belief that people, in general, prefer to be elevated as opposed to being in tunnels.

Whether a tunnel or a pedestrian bridge, this is very expensive infrastructure. Maybe I am a sour puss but I think the developer benefitting from this infrastructure should pay for it as a condition of having his plan approved. This will encourage a plan with sufficient density to make it financially viable for both the developer and the city. I get tired of the city subsidizing TOD.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

As originally envisioned, the Tallwood Station would have been below grade since the Transitway was to pass under Tallwood Drive. With the geotechnical problems, there has been some thought that the Transitway might need to go over Tallwood Drive instead. That would mean an elevated station. But going up involves geotechnical problems of its own since the ground has low bearing capacity. I think that the preferred plan is still to put the Transitway and Tallwood Station below grade by casting the trench walls before digging out the cut. Remember, this area is like a clay bowl filled with sand and water. The trick will be to not lower the ground water so that the surrounding ground subsides; since the long-term care facility beside it is sitting on a slab foundation.

It is believed that having an at-grade crossing of Tallwood Drive is not manageable due to expected traffic and bus volumes and the proximity of the Meadowlands/Tallwood/Woodroffe intersection.



I expect to see a bridge connection similar to the one from the Telesat lands to the Blair Station. I have not heard any talk of tunneling under the 417. There seems to be the belief that people, in general, prefer to be elevated as opposed to being in tunnels.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Whether a tunnel or a pedestrian bridge, this is very expensive infrastructure. Maybe I am a sour puss but I think the developer benefitting from this infrastructure should pay for it as a condition of having his plan approved. This will encourage a plan with sufficient density to make it financially viable for both the developer and the city. I get tired of the city subsidizing TOD.

Bridges are generally cheaper to build and maintain and are considered far more passively safe from a CPTED perspective.

[rocketphish]

"Transit-oriented development" to boost construction around east-side LRT stations

By David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen October 15, 2012 5:02 PM

OTTAWA - New rail stations east of downtown are almost as close to the core as West Wellington and Westboro and should soon see monster condo and office construction to match, the city said Monday in revealing plans aimed at guiding that development.

The $2.1-billion light rail system that’s due to start construction next year is a huge transit project between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair Road, said planning committee chairman and Alta Vista Councillor Peter Hume, but "what’s most important ... is what it will cause to be built along that corridor. And I would argue that’s almost as important as the train itself."

What it’ll cause to be built is condo and office towers as tall as 30 storeys next to rail stops by the Via train station and at Cyrville Road and St. Laurent Boulevard, if councillors approve mass zoning changes to be presented to city council’s planning committee next Tuesday. The Citizen first reported on the work at the end of last year. The goal is to get as many people as possible using the train, not just at rush hours but throughout the day and into the night.

"We’re creating an environment to make it as successful as it can be," Hume said.

The plans are meant to add 10,000 people - either residents or employees - within a 10-minute walk of each station in the next 20 years, and even more after that. That’ll take population densities similar to those of the part of Centretown outside the business district, achieved by adding buildings that’ll be close to the tallest in Ottawa by the LRT stations, 20-storey buildings a little further out, and six-storey buildings beyond that.

"It’s like a pyramid effect," explained Lee Ann Snedden, the city’s manager of planning policy and urban design. She showed computer renderings of what the neighbourhoods might eventually look like, with wide sidewalks and busy patios and bike lanes on the rebuilt streets, but emphasized that the pretty pictures are "conceptual" indications of what things might look like eventually. Nobody has applied to build anything yet.

To match the zoning, the city has plans for pedestrian and biking networks to make the stations easy to reach and has examined the water and sewer pipes and other city works to make sure they can take the load. Snedden says the planners estimate the new construction will be worth $100 million to the city in development charges - fees the city levies to pay for new infrastructure - and eventually $20 million a year in new property taxes, which will more than pay for what the city itself needs to build.

The zoning changes are meant to encourage developers to charge into the neighbourhoods-in-the-making knowing that they won’t have to apply for rezonings for each individual project. They cover vacant lots, commercial strips and box stores on property the city considers underused; the relatively few residential areas close to those east-side stations were deliberately excluded from the re-examination. Hume acknowledged it’ll mean an increase in property values for the rezoned landowners, but said a lot of that would come anyway just because of the LRT service.

The rail system, which is supposed to feature trains running nearly every three minutes on the day it opens in 2018, should attract people in a way the bus-based Transitway never quite has, Hume said.

"The LRT can be much more transformative. People will want to live in close proximity. ‘I’m going to walk over and get my Starbucks, but I want to go the movies, so let’s hop on and go to the Gloucester Centre because a train will be along in three minutes’," Hume said.

The areas around Blair and Hurdman stations are to get the treatment next.

[email protected]

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Tr...tations/7393115/story.html#ixzz29PrmfWtR


Computer rendering of what Cyrville Road at Cummings Avenue might eventually look like under plans aimed at guiding development near east-side LRT stations. The plans are meant to add 10,000 people - either residents or employees - within a 10-minute walk of each station in the next 20 years, and even more after that.



Computer rendering of what St. Laurent Boulevard, facing south, might eventually look like under plans aimed at guiding development near east-side LRT stations.



Computer rendering of what Terminal Avenue, facing east, might eventually look like under plans aimed at guiding development near east-side LRT stations

[J.OT13]

I can't figure out the St-Laurent rendering. Facing south, but are we south of the Queensway?

Adding 10,000 people within 10 minutes walking time from the stations is a pretty good goal, making the areas more urban without them taking away from Downtown's importance as the cultural and economics centre of the city.

On a random note, I would like to see some sort of bylaw stating that Downtown Ottawa needs to keep a minimum of 40% of the city's office space, which would still be much lower than most other cities.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I can't figure out the St-Laurent rendering. Facing south, but are we south of the Queensway?

I think the vantage point is the intersection of St. Laurent and Coventry/Ogilvie. On the right is the Mall parking structure, sprouting a new office tower (I think that this has already been proposed), and the next set of buildings on the right side is new Federal complex just south of the Queensway.

I guess that the nondescript strip mall on the left side will eventually be redeveloped too.

[eternallyme]

Those renderings are so cool, I sure hope they become reality!

In the updated TMP, I am going to recommend LRT to the suburbs as soon as feasible and finances available, even if it is concurrent or immediately after the main line is done. Even outside the Greenbelt, there are several areas where such treatment is warranted - the first one I think would be what is now Place d'Orleans (should use a total redevelopment).

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

As originally envisioned, the Tallwood Station would have been below grade since the Transitway was to pass under Tallwood Drive. With the geotechnical problems, there has been some thought that the Transitway might need to go over Tallwood Drive instead. That would mean an elevated station. But going up involves geotechnical problems of its own since the ground has low bearing capacity. I think that the preferred plan is still to put the Transitway and Tallwood Station below grade by casting the trench walls before digging out the cut. Remember, this area is like a clay bowl filled with sand and water. The trick will be to not lower the ground water so that the surrounding ground subsides; since the long-term care facility beside it is sitting on a slab foundation.

It is believed that having an at-grade crossing of Tallwood Drive is not manageable due to expected traffic and bus volumes and the proximity of the Meadowlands/Tallwood/Woodroffe intersection.



I expect to see a bridge connection similar to the one from the Telesat lands to the Blair Station. I have not heard any talk of tunneling under the 417. There seems to be the belief that people, in general, prefer to be elevated as opposed to being in tunnels.

Another challenging area will be from Knoxdale to south of West Hunt Club. It will be expensive no matter what there. The feasible options:

1) Tunnel from just north of Knoxdale to across from the Nepean Sportsplex.

- No expropriation required
- Highest costs due to tunnel in sensitive soil
- All movements maintained as they are now

2) Surface alignment throughout

- Requires an interchange at Woodroffe/West Hunt Club, with ramps on east side
- Full expropriation of at least 15 multi-family buildings required
- Partial expropriation of Confederation Education Centre required
- Knoxdale would require special signalling, Majestic would need to be closed
- Not feasible for BRT, but may be feasible if directly to LRT
- Lowest cost for soil movement, but countered somewhat by the interchange cost

3) Trenched from Knoxdale to across from the Nepean Sportsplex

- Full expropriation of at least 15 multi-family buildings required
- Structures required at West Hunt Club, Majestic and Knoxdale
- Sensitive soil may create additional problems
- Cost lower than tunnel but higher than surface option
- Cheapest feasible BRT option