HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Calgary > Transportation & Infrastructure


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #5381  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 5:37 AM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
Hare Expert
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary, Toronto
Posts: 1,053
Of course we have buses with bike racks. Has nobody seen a bus in real life in the past few years? Most buses don't have one but you'll be hard pressed to go downtown or on a major road and not see a bus with one during summer months. I recall storage being the number one issue with them.
     
     
  #5382  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 9:20 AM
ByeByeBaby's Avatar
ByeByeBaby ByeByeBaby is offline
Crunchin' the numbers.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: T2R, YYC, 403, CA-AB.
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyLucky View Post
The link doesnt work, but I'd be interest to see it.


I'm not entirely convinced either. After this post I'll be googling bike-bus to see what the effect in other cities has been. Personally, I can't really think of a situation when I would use it, except if I was caught in a hail storm on my bike.

Bike-on-bus implies to me that the rider would be cycling both before an after the bus ride. If I was in the suburbs destined downtown Calgary, I'd either bike all the way or lock up at the bus stop and ride transit from there. It would be nice during a hailstorm though...
Let me try that link again - bike share feasibility study. It works on preview; if it doesn't, it's the first PDF hit for "Calgary Bike Share Feasibility Study" on Google.

I think that there's some possible situations where only one end of the bike-bus trip would have a ride. Like if someone lives near a route that has good service to a point that is a reasonable bike ride from their destination; like someone who lives on the 3 but works in the Rockyview hospital. Another possibility is someone who doesn't want to lock their bike at the bus stop; there usually isn't anywhere to lock it, and some people have good bike storage at work or whereever.

But these are not common situations, that's for sure.
     
     
  #5383  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 5:00 PM
RyLucky's Avatar
RyLucky RyLucky is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,498
Thanks BBB! I hadn't seen that before.

I still think bike share could work for a lot more neighbourhoods than just downtown, but it's a good place to start!
     
     
  #5384  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 5:58 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyLucky View Post
Thanks BBB! I hadn't seen that before.

I still think bike share could work for a lot more neighbourhoods than just downtown, but it's a good place to start!
The big issue with bike share is you need docking stations near your destination, not just your starting point.

Now it would be interesting to see whether it would be cheaper to do a mass roll out of bike share and some serious intersection rejigs to better accomadate bicycles versus improving service hours on neighborhood circulator buses.

I doubt bike share would be cheaper, with its labour intensive fleet maintenance and continual redistribution, but I could be wrong.

A big issue with bike share is the cost seems very high off the bat (when they are pretty small in comparison to other things), when you're not thinking of what the cost of the trips it is displacing are.
     
     
  #5385  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 9:20 PM
Wigs's Avatar
Wigs Wigs is offline
Great White North
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 16,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vascilli View Post
Of course we have buses with bike racks. Has nobody seen a bus in real life in the past few years? Most buses don't have one but you'll be hard pressed to go downtown or on a major road and not see a bus with one during summer months. I recall storage being the number one issue with them.
There's currently only one bus route, Route 20 with bike racks on buses during Calgary Transit's pilot project program. How they can gauge viability of bike racks on buses from 1 route out of 160+ doesn't make sense
__________________
"You can't have a strategy if you don't even have a policy"
     
     
  #5386  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 9:23 PM
Wigs's Avatar
Wigs Wigs is offline
Great White North
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 16,220
Check out this video which was made to plea NYC to install bike racks on buses. pretty interesting how successful it is in other cities and shows how they are an important part of urban transit.
__________________
"You can't have a strategy if you don't even have a policy"

Last edited by Wigs; Sep 1, 2012 at 11:54 PM.
     
     
  #5387  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 10:43 PM
RyLucky's Avatar
RyLucky RyLucky is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,498
Nice video. Ok, I'm starting to come around now. I give the city my permission to install bike racks on buses.
     
     
  #5388  
Old Posted Sep 1, 2012, 11:55 PM
Wigs's Avatar
Wigs Wigs is offline
Great White North
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 16,220
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyLucky View Post
Nice video. Ok, I'm starting to come around now. I give the city my permission to install bike racks on buses.
we certainly can't be left behind by the likes of Houston, Omaha, Las Vegas, Kansas City or cold weather cities like Minneapolis and Milwaukee
__________________
"You can't have a strategy if you don't even have a policy"
     
     
  #5389  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2012, 12:07 AM
RyLucky's Avatar
RyLucky RyLucky is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,498
By the way, a on Wednesday-Friday this week, a test train will run the entire distance of the WestLRT for the first time. Later this fall, Millennium Park restoration will begin.
     
     
  #5390  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2012, 4:39 AM
Vascilli Vascilli is offline
Hare Expert
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Calgary, Toronto
Posts: 1,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIGS View Post
There's currently only one bus route, Route 20 with bike racks on buses during Calgary Transit's pilot project program. How they can gauge viability of bike racks on buses from 1 route out of 160+ doesn't make sense
Hmm they used to just toss them on buses and let them run wild. Good to see they're consolidating them onto one route.
     
     
  #5391  
Old Posted Sep 2, 2012, 9:34 PM
Cage Cage is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: YYC
Posts: 2,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusili View Post
Newest TransitCamp blog post: Goals, Metrics and Doing the Right Thing.

http://transitcamp.ca/2012/08/30/goals-metrics-and-doing-the-right-thing/
Good post, but a couple of bas questions still unanswered.

1. Should Calgary Transit have realistic/smart goals or more aspirational/stretch goals?

2. What is not emphasized in the goal statement say just as much as the goal emphasis. More precisely, as Ald Carra said, should Calgary Transit look at just the commuter segment or should the focus be on all market segments. What are the market segments should be a focus for Calgary Transit?

I think Calgary Transit should be focused on smart realistic goal that defines the priority market segements. Realistic goals should be no more than 5 years out and only rely upon current capabilities plus new capabilities that are within current budget and strategic plan. Further I firmly believe that Calgary transit should focus on the following market segments:
- Downtown commuters. If Ctransit forgets about this market segment, it will stagnate.
- University Students. Partner with MRU, SAIT, Bow Valley, and UofC (plus other private campuses) to attract new riders. Includes pricing oncampus parking out of reach for most full time students.
- High School students. Again captivre market. Get em Young and Teach them right". Marketing strategy that worked for bad breakfast cerals and smoking.
     
     
  #5392  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2012, 1:34 PM
sim sim is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 863
Bike racks on Buses:

I'm not overly sure that's the best idea to pursue. The TTC spent about $200,000 on it one busy route and it was used by 20 riders. That's a pretty hefty price per rider. Imagine doing that on every route.

Although that video does seem nice, and it is interesting that the one guy mentions there is no decrease in travel time, you can pretty clearly see on almost all occasions where they show someone loading a bike, the bus is waiting (even if minimally.) It's interesting that New York, the only city where transit mode share is really significant, seems to be the one without bike racks. To my recollection, much like most European and especially Asian systems. There was a study a couple years ago that supposedly calculated that if the MTA (New York) stopped collecting cash fares and let everyone ride for free, that they would actually do better financially - due to much lower dwell times, thereby increase route speeds.

Another aspect that has to be regarded is the trip typology this would entail in the first place. Most likely both an origin and a destination that is sparsely served. If it's the origin, for sure there is no need for a rack, as is more often than not the case in a city with at least a good portion of employment in rather concentrated areas, then you can simply bike to the station and leave it there.

The intent may indeed be to make the last mile much easier, where there are no connecting routes to the eventual destination. Thus, it is relatively safe to assume that there will be few alightings (or boardings) at such a place and thus making the unloading (or loading) of the bike all the more a majority factor in the bus dwell time.

My underlying point is that bike racks on buses moreso seem to be evident in less successful transit systems, where perhaps the time (time lost) of captive riders is of less consequence and is moreso a service that overcaters to a specific niche rider, who might of otherwise taken the car - and in a city where car ownership is high, and parking in most areas is cheap (FREE,) that is often going to look like a better option.

Furthermore, the bike racks can really quickly become a victim of their own success as well as becoming increasingly more of a burden on the system as a whole. The space on the rack is obviously rather limited, and say hypothetically that there is high turnover on the racks themselves, it is undoubtable that that will have a negative effect on the dwell times - 3 or 4 people loading bikes, one after another. And there is the issue of what is pretty easy theft.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker View Post
The big issue with bike share is you need docking stations near your destination, not just your starting point.

And I do have to raise a point here, because this is not true. While most bike share systems do make use of stations, this isn't inherent to bike shares as some allow the user to literally park the bike wherever they want such as Deutschebahn's Call a Bike system. I don't recall if there exists a broader term for these types of systems. (4th Generation Bike Shares...)

I do think though, that largely for reasons already stated, that Calgary would have to employee such a Call-a-Bike system, but I'd be wary of the honesty levels of Calgarians on average, as they are definitely easier to steal. A hybrid model perhaps?

My slightly more subtle underlying point here being that a decent bike share is probably a better focus of resources than bus bike racks. They have a lower need for a built out network to be equally effective, as "stations" can be places in strategic locations to start with, act to better compliment transit as opposed to hinder it with increasing success, serve a more varied trip purpose and user group, can additionally revenue generate and although still fairly high in initial costs, likely no where near equipping most every bus with a rack, along with the points previously mentioned in other posts.

But, if resources are drawn from other even more costly modes (ie, the private car and roads) then I wouldn't necessarily say bus bike racks are a terrible thing to pursue.

Last edited by sim; Sep 6, 2012 at 2:39 PM.
     
     
  #5393  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2012, 7:45 PM
Policy Wonk's Avatar
Policy Wonk Policy Wonk is offline
Inflatable Hippo
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Suburban Las Vegas
Posts: 4,015
Didn't most if not all of U of C's bikes get stolen and hanged from trees?

There is always Amsterdam style bike sharing, where you just approach a group of cyclists and say "Hey, that’s my bike!" and several people will jump off the bike they're riding and run away.
__________________
Public Administration 101: Keep your mouth shut until obligated otherwise and don't get in public debates with housewives.
     
     
  #5394  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2012, 7:51 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 11,596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
Didn't most if not all of U of C's bikes get stolen and hanged from trees?
Yeah, I was at school during that experiment. Not very useful at all, since you could never count on a bike being where you needed it to be. Unless you can count on a reduced travel time almost all of the time, there is little real world benefit.
     
     
  #5395  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2012, 9:05 PM
andasen andasen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIGS View Post
There's currently only one bus route, Route 20 with bike racks on buses during Calgary Transit's pilot project program. How they can gauge viability of bike racks on buses from 1 route out of 160+ doesn't make sense
Route 36 and 41 were originally part of the pilot project but it was discontinued due to lack of use (which makes perfect sense, I use both busses and have ridden the entire route and when they announced that pilot I really scratched my head as I really could have used a bike rack on the SE BRT instead of the 36/41. There is no reason to need to bike to or from the 36/41 but for a good portion of Riverbend and Ogden there is probably a decent enough crowd of people that would bike to the BRT since we mostly bypassed by the busses. You may even get some bikers from Douglasdale and Mackenzie Lake as well.
     
     
  #5396  
Old Posted Sep 3, 2012, 11:06 PM
Aegis's Avatar
Aegis Aegis is offline
Analyst, Commercial Mtgs
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bankview
Posts: 1,457
I think Bike Sharing as a concept is a waste of time for Calgary. I'd much rather the money spent on superior cycling infrastructure and have people buy their own bikes.

Make it easy and convenient for people to cycle, and they will.
     
     
  #5397  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2012, 4:51 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,271
This airport trail / 96th ave public transit study was supposed to be presented to the transit committee in June and city council in July. Did that happen?

See:
http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TP/...ts/transportation-study-presentation.pdf

I had seen this document before but forgotten about it. Happy that their thinking and mine are in sync w.r.t. there being a possible connection between the NE and NC LRT lines in the future.
     
     
  #5398  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2012, 5:29 PM
mersar's Avatar
mersar mersar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 10,083
10th Street station closes Sept 15 and the new 11th Street station opens with the West LRT in December: http://www.calgarytransit.com/html/10_station_closure.html
__________________

Live or work in the Beltline? Check out the Official Beltline web site here
     
     
  #5399  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2012, 6:53 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,271
United Way thanks City for youth transit pass decision.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/Smart+move/7178345/story.html
     
     
  #5400  
Old Posted Sep 4, 2012, 10:33 PM
Radley77's Avatar
Radley77 Radley77 is offline
The City That Moves
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bridgeland, Calgary
Posts: 1,450
I think there should be more discussion on bike-transit integration, though am not sure the best way to achieve that.

There are some options including:
- cycling routes for interested, but concerned demographic connecting to and from all LRT\BRT stations
- secure cycling parking facilities at LRT\BRT stations accessible via CONNECT card & with CCTV surveillance (particularly at stations like Brentwood which are high ridership and close to university)
- bike racks at LRT\BRT stations (5% of station daily ridership); "Bike & Ride"
- bike hangers on LRT vehichles (4-8 per car for use during offpeak hours)
- extend hours bikes can be brought on LRT lines in contraflow direction
- awareness campaign of folding bikes on LRT and buses timed early in Spring
- change signage on LRT overpasses from "cyclists must dismount" to "cyclists yield to pedestrians"
- bike racks on front of buses (perhaps only appropriate near MRU)

As for bike racks on buses, most american cities (with the exception of New York) have bike racks on all buses. Calgary is really sucking right now for cycling facilities near major activity centres and this I think is till a bigger barrier than bike racks.

I think the focus should be surrounding more bike\LRT\BRT integration which includes improved cycling routes to LRT\BRT stations. Then at the stations one can deal with the problems of security and theft by having secure parking facilities as well as bike racks.

There is value in bike\transit integration as also building upon transit orientated development, less parking requirement compared to autos, reduced feeder bus stop frequency near LRT\BRT stations and optionality for active mode lifestyle.

Some of the above items don't have much capital $'s cost associated with it, but all of them require some technical manpower.
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Calgary > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:23 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.