Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[Cre47]

A quick Google search gives us a grand total of "ZERO" references of Ottawa being dropped out. No mention on the Wikipedia page either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_U-20_Women%27s_World_Cup.

CO, I will believe you only if a credible reference is given. CBC, CTV and others would likely talk about a lot time. For now I don't believe one second.

[concernedottawa]

Only four of six cities selected to host the Womens FIFA event in 2015 will host
the WU20.

Top four for WU20 will be 1. Vancouver, 2. Edmonton or Winnipeg, 3. Montreal with either
Moncton, or Ottawa as the fourth

FIFA needs to have inspectors visit the stadiums several months before the start
of the event so only completed stadiums will be eligible for the WU20.

Winnipeg Investors stadium has commenced so they could be ready but
would make it a second prairie province and the third western province.
Edmonton could be dropped to allow them in though.

Moncton is ready and would be the only Maritime representative city so the likely fourth for WU20.

Balance for the tournament WU20 will be two from the West and two from the East.

Frank Clair will not be ready for 2014.

See Wikipedia link

Reading the press release from the City, Mayor Watson makes no mention of
WU20, just the main event in 2015.

This makes sense. Even if you were to start today Frank Clair would not be ready by Spring 2014.
A 20 month construction timetable for the stadium is not realistic plus the entire site must be ready
so it won't happen.

Ottawa will be ready and front and center for the main event of Women's FIFA in 2015

The official release of the host cities for WU20 will take place before the year end.

http://www.fifa.com/womensworldcup/organisation/media/newsid=1625191/index.html

[JeffB]

Thank you for actually responding to the request. However, you didn't show where the city has withdrawn the bid for 2014, which was what you said. You just made a reasoned case against it. And I am not going to argue that there won't be any U20 games in Ottawa, but that doesn't necessarily mean the stadium won't be ready until 2015. And it absolutely does not mean the city is going to do some sort of competitive bid process for Lansdowne.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

60 to 90 day RFP completed by Dec 31, 2012, latest end Jan 2013.

All studies have been completed.

All site preparation soon finished.

FIFA is for June 2015 ( City has dropped hosting WU20 in 2014 ).

28 month construction schedule with substantial stadium completion within
24 months or Jan 2015.

I am totally fed up with this nonsense.

Ladies and Gentlemen, it is the tail wagging the dog, and that tail is one person. And that one person is costing this city millions (which is you and I) and costing people jobs.

[KHOOLE]

Pictures taken of the construction site at Lansdowne Park can be seen at

https://picasaweb.google.com/jcdube2001/LansdowneParkConstructionSiteStartingAugust2012#

This Picasa Web site will be updated every once in a while for the next few years or so

Another endeavour will be the moving of the Horticulture Building in the near future

Demolition of the Coliseum can be seen at:

https://picasaweb.google.com/jcdube2001/LansdowneParkColiseumDemolitionAug2012#

[concernedottawa]

Non competitive bid
$8M annually in taxpayers dollars required to finance the development
( $240M loss over 30 years )
chain stores ship profits out of local economy
limited tourist appeal - fewer jobs

60 to 90 day RFP
$4M annual surplus to taxpayers
( $120M surplus over 30 years )
locally owned business, profits kept in local economy
great tourist appeal - more jobs


Site prep almost completed.

RFP becomes easier and faster.

[Kitchissippi]

You know that if you keep this up you can get banned from this forum. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

[migo]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

You know that if you keep this up you can get banned from this forum. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

Well...he has no other avenue to 'voice' his obsession(s). All legal avenues have been exhausted, construction has begun, all is well in democratic Ottawa. In short: the people of Ottawa have voted for their city counsel, the city counselors have voted on Lansdowne. Thanks for the pics KHOOLE!

[JeffB]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

You know that if you keep this up you can get banned from this forum. I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve here.

That would make it what, 4th time?

[ThaLoveDocta]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Non competitive bid
$8M annually in taxpayers dollars required to finance the development
( $240M loss over 30 years )
chain stores ship profits out of local economy
limited tourist appeal - fewer jobs

60 to 90 day RFP
$4M annual surplus to taxpayers
( $120M surplus over 30 years )
locally owned business, profits kept in local economy
great tourist appeal - more jobs


Site prep almost completed.

RFP becomes easier and faster.

Without delving too far into the rest of the unfounded, unsourced 'content' summed in this little blurb of yours here....

It should be noted that sports teams ARE A TOURIST ATTRACTION.

How many here have traveled to see pro teams play?

I've been to Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Boston and Tampa for exactly this reason in the last couple years alone. (And yes, each time i have made local purchases from overpriced 'local' vendors near the stadiums)

Also, speaking from some experience with the process, it seems to be rare (read: never) that public institutions are able to maintain RFP/Q timelines. So don't bank on that as the cornerstone of your schedule.

Some Federal Examples For Reference: http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/04/0...didate-vehicles-have-issues-say-sources/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Canadas-CH-148-Cyclones-Better-Late-Than-Never-05223/

[concernedottawa]

Reply to ThaLove Doctor post 1970
(Number reference can be found here )

Sports teams are of course a tourist attraction.

That is for a limited number of days and hours of the year.

The site needs to be attractive to tourists and locals year round.

This is achieved by being unique, affordable. and by being accessible.

Uniqueness
A multi tower office/residential/shopping centre complex with large format commercial will
not attract tourism and is not unique. Having only 660 paid public parking spots for 850,000 sq ft
will not make life any easier.

Having a Granville Island model with 170,000 to 200,000 sq ft ( about one fifth )
of unique local small business will. This will evolve naturally over time. Providing between
1,200 to 1,400 free surface parking spots will make it more attractive to attend.

Sensible Approach
Billings Bridge is 488,000 sq ft of GLA, or about half the OSEG proposal, but Billings Bridge
has double the public parking, does not charge for the parking, is on rapid transit, is next to
two major arteries and has no stadium. It works.

You can have a stadium at Lansdowne, but not with two Billings Bridge shopping centres,
a quarter the parking, charging for the parking and no rapid transit or major arteries.

A stadium at Lansdowne will work but only with around 200,000 sq ft of density and
with between 1,200 to 1,400 free public parking spots ( except major events ).

An open bid will confirm that.

RFP the best and fastest process
If one is to rely upon real experience than the best case study would be
with the City of Ottawa. The last RFP the City had was in the spring of 2010
for the front lawn and was completed with winner chosen in 90 days.


Benefit of Open Competitition
The real benefit for having a competitive process are the savings and benefits
to the local economy.

There is more than a half a billion dollar advantage to the City of Ottawa and
her taxpayers to having a competitive process, both in real dollars saved and
in increased tourism.

[McC]

unique local businesses can't afford the rents in brand new high-quality construction, so you're going to end up subsidizing construction or building tempo sheds (big box-style) and giving the space away. OR, you can let the market decide, and watch the established businesses and chains move into nice new spaces at Landsdowne, freeing up their old, smaller spaces for your unique local businesses over time.

[concernedottawa]

Reply to McC post 1972
Basic math proves you can provide competitive lease rates with beautiful construction

Only one new structure needs to be built to achieve the needed GLA of about
180,000 sq ft, and that is a new Market Building where roughly 100,000 sq ft
is needed.( approx 75,000 footprint with mezzanine ).

Use $250 per sq ft. to build new. Class A or $25M, with financing on a 30 yr
bond at 3.67% you need to pay back $1.38M per year.

Net lease is $28 per foot or $2.8M per year.

You are running at a $1.42M annual surplus just on that one building.

If you increase the building cost to $300 per sq ft the annual surplus
shrinks to $1.1M, still very comfortable.

Of course those are static numbers, the mortgage amount is fixed
but the rents are increasing slightly per year ( and in greater amount
than expenses ) so the amortized advantage is higher still.

[McC]

basic experience indicates otherwise. Can you give one example where brand new beautiful construction is filled with "unique local independent" businesses? Not Granville Island, it's almost entirely old (and relatively small) re-purposed buildings. Look at the Market, there are exceptions, but generally, where are the chains? mostly in the Rideau Centre and newer buildings like 90 George, where are the smaller, unique and local businesses? mostly in older, smaller buildings off of the main drags, on Byward, on Dalhousie, etc.

[concernedottawa]

Reply to McC post 1974
See comment two above showing affordability of quality lease space.

Balance of space:
Horticulture Building 25,000 sq ft
Lower level North Stands 30,000 sq ft
Main level North Stands 5,000 to 7,500 sq ft
Aberdeen Pavillion 36,000 sq ft
New pavilion for lawn area 10,000 sq ft
New Market Building 100,000 sq ft

There is more than enough to start with.

Let it evolve.

As Granville Island proves don't over design. Let the space evolve and
add new buildings or renovate existing as needed.

Use a public governance board, keep rents low, attract unique local
business, and as they have proven, run the space with an annual surplus
and no taxpayer cost.

The benefit just in Granville Island is 2,500 jobs and an annual economic impact
of $130M ( See http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/about/about_001.cfm)
The site attracts between 10M to 12M
visitors per year. Apply the tourism multiplier and you have created a huge economic model.

The key is keeping the space public and accountable
But the key to that type of success is keeping the space public.
And you do that by getting a report from the Project from Public Spaces and having a 60 to 90 day RFP.
Working with the City but not a City structure.
You make it a City building project that includes business, community, tourism, all levels of government
arts/culture, rural and of course sports and recreation.


Lansdowne can expect one fifth to one quarter of the Granville Island numbers using their model.

[lrt's friend]

How many hundreds of times has the same information been presented here? It is tiresome and I don't read it.

[citizen j]

Originally Posted by concernedottawa

Reply to McC post 1974
See comment two above showing affordability of quality lease space.

Balance of space:
Horticulture Building 25,000 sq ft
Lower level North Stands 30,000 sq ft
Main level North Stands 5,000 to 7,500 sq ft
Aberdeen Pavillion 36,000 sq ft
New pavilion for lawn area 10,000 sq ft
New Market Building 100,000 sq ft

There is more than enough to start with.

Let it evolve.

As Granville Island proves don't over design. Let the space evolve and
add new buildings or renovate existing as needed.

Use a public governance board, keep rents low, attract unique local
business, and as they have proven, run the space with an annual surplus
and no taxpayer cost.

The benefit just in Granville Island is 2,500 jobs and an annual economic impact
of $130M ( See http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/corp/about/about_001.cfm)
The site attracts between 10M to 12M
visitors per year. Apply the tourism multiplier and you have created a huge economic model.

The key is keeping the space public and accountable
But the key to that type of success is keeping the space public.
And you do that by getting a report from the Project from Public Spaces and having a 60 to 90 day RFP.
Working with the City but not a City structure.
You make it a City building project that includes business, community, tourism, all levels of government
arts/culture, rural and of course sports and recreation.


Lansdowne can expect one fifth to one quarter of the Granville Island numbers using their model.

Señor, Sancho Panza called for you and left a message. He says Canadian Tire has finished re-shoeing Rocinante and that you can pick him up when you’re ready.

[J.OT13]

Concernedottawa, I would like to reply to a few of your comments;

“A multi tower office/residential/shopping centre complex with large format commercial will not attract tourism”
Ever been to the Eaton Centre?

“Having a Granville Island model with 170,000 to 200,000 sq ft ( about one fifth )Providing between 1,200 to 1,400 free surface parking spots will make it more attractive to attend.”
We all want to visit a couple of sheds in a big ass parking lot as opposed to an urban shopping district surrounded by an urban park.

“Billings Bridge is 488,000 sq ft of GLA, or about half the OSEG proposal, but Billings Bridge has double the public parking”

Billings Bridge, huge tourist attraction located in such a walkable area. It’s a mid-century suburban mall serving the affluent neighbourhoods of Alta Vista; only teenagers and a few people with no car use the bus to Billings Bridge.

Lansdowne is mainly targeted for the thousands of people who live in the inner area who can easily walk (Glebe) or bus (Centertown residents with no car by choice). And I suspect that people from outside of the inner area could easily park elsewhere (Billings Bridge or Downtown) and bus or walk to Lansdowne.

As for tourists; they usually don’t drive, they walk or take public transit. I realize that public transit lacks on Bank Street and I will concede that there is a bit lack of parking at Lansdowne, but I don’t think it will bring the demise of Lansdowne.

[concernedottawa]

Reply to J.OT13
See post 1916 for sample bidder modified site plan

This is a good example of a working traffic model.
Note no blocking of traffic.

Easy controlled area bus drop offs either side.
Circular flow for traffic entering and exiting.

Providing a large central building of two stories creates the main central
area, not unlike Granville.

from the Lansdowne Park Conservancy
http://www.lpc-cpl.ca/images/market.jpg

Urban park nearby, but a site, like Granville,
in scale, more easily accessible by car, bus, pedestrian, cycle, and water taxi.

Drawing tourists straightforward with docks in the summer time as well as use
of Double Decker roofless tourist bus. Tourists will stop at a scaled site, less
inclined if buildings are same heights as downtown. Local small business is
unique and interesting. as Granville Island has proven.

This idea follows the Granville Market approach and is but one idea for a competitive process.

Other bidders will easily follow the model. It is simple, attractive, viable, and logical.

BTW, RFP is 3 months, construction is 28 months for a total of 31 months.

Park completion deadline is June 2015 for FIFA or 34 months away.

[J.OT13]

Stop calling it a bid, please!!! It's the LPC answer to a question no one asked. This proposal seems pretty dull to me and I would never go out of my way to visit. It's an urban site needing an urban experience.

Victoria Island might see a bit more of a Granville/Distillery District hybrid with no high rises due to the fact that you can't dig a big hole on a tiny island.

I respect that you have your opinion on the whole Lansdowne deal, but get over it; you guys lost, OSEG won and that’s it. You don’t see everyone still arguing about a third subway station in the CBD because we excepted defeat.