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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2012, 4:09 AM
m0nkyman m0nkyman is offline
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Originally Posted by MaxHeadroom View Post
plus the sewer system needs to be expanded before anything more can be built there.
Source?
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2012, 12:40 PM
rakerman rakerman is offline
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Public Consultation and feedback

Tunney's Pasture Master Plan information session Sept. 17, 2012 from 5 p.m. to 8 p.m. at the Jean-Talon building, 170 Tunney’s Pasture Drive

You can provide feedback directly to PWGSC at http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/biens-property/pdpt-tpmp/cn-bn-pp-eng.html - the deadline for feedback for this phase is OCTOBER 9, 2012.

Last edited by rakerman; Aug 21, 2012 at 12:40 PM. Reason: 2012
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2012, 1:53 PM
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Front Page of the Globe:

Federal government gets in on condo action with overhaul of Ottawa neighbourhood

BILL CURRY

OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail

Published Monday, Aug. 20 2012, 9:22 PM EDT

Last updated Monday, Aug. 20 2012, 9:26 PM EDT

After issuing months of warnings about the rapid expansion of Canada’s condominium market, the federal government now appears to want a piece of the action.

Ottawa is planning a major overhaul of a 49-hectare campus-style property it owns in the nation’s capital called Tunney’s Pasture.

Situated along the Ottawa River about four kilometres west of downtown, it is a drab complex of grey concrete government buildings. But the neighbourhood around it is currently one of the hottest spots for new condo development in the capital.
Created more than 50 years ago, Tunney’s Pasture is the very opposite of the “live-work-play” mantra of modern urban planners who favour intensification and mixed-use buildings. Instead, the buildings on site – which house Health Canada, Statistics Canada and other branches of the public service – are far apart and connected by wide boulevards. After 5 p.m., the area is largely deserted.

The federal government, however, sees an opportunity to turn the property into a place where people can live, work, shop and access the Ottawa River, all without a car. Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird, who is also the political minister for Eastern Ontario, announced Monday that the government is launching consultations on how to redevelop the site. That will produce a master plan by next year that will guide development over the next 25 years.

It is a bold attempt to revatilize a huge swath of land in the city’s urban core, although it could meet resistance from in surrounding neighbourhoods who already complain about too much traffic.

There is also the potential for the federal government to make a lot of money. That could help the government pay for new government buildings and renovations of buildings already on site.

“This is a great location,” said Roger Greenberg, CEO of Minto Group Inc., one of Ottawa’s largest residential developers. Mr. Greenberg said the amount of money Ottawa could raise would be “considerable” given the size of the property and its location.

While the federal government has been mostly expressing concern about the potentially overheated condo markets in Toronto and Vancouver, Mr. Greenberg said Ottawa’s market is far less volatile because of its base of well-paying government jobs.

“Ottawa has always been a much more stable environment,” he said, noting that he’s eager to hear more detail from Ottawa about the plans.

Many of the government buildings at the site need to be completely renovated or torn down and the federal government is testing the public’s appetite for filling in the space between government buildings with condos and commercial space. Ottawa wouldn’t build the condos, but could potentially lease or sell some of the land to developers.

“There are a number of options that are available,” said John McBain, an assistant deputy minister with the department of Public Works. “We would look for private-sector partners. But certainly we want to get away from the cold, institutional feel that the Pasture has now and develop more of a mixed use that would have eyes on the street, that would have people living in the community.”

The location includes a station on Ottawa’s bus-only Transitway that will become the western end of a new light-rail line running through the city’s urban centre by 2018, making it even more attractive to developers and potential home owners.

Katherine Hobbs, a city councillor for the area who has seen drawings of the proposed developments, said there would be about 12 new residential buildings.

“I’m very pleased. It’s a great plan,” she said.

Getting public support in the city of Ottawa, however, won’t be easy. While the city council is broadly supportive of plans to have more people living in and around the downtown to reduce the financial pressures of urban sprawl, people living in the affected neighbourhoods have been vocal in their opposition to other projects.

Plans for new condos on the east side of Parkdale Avene – across the street from Tunney’s Pasture – are currently the subject of heated debate over their height and potential impact on traffic in the area.

The federal plans could double the number of public servants working at Tunney’s Pasture from 10,000 to 20,000.

Jeff Leiper, a spokesman for an area community association, said traffic will be an issue but he welcomed the plan because it could ease the current pressure from developers to build high rises in established residential areas.

“Over all, we’re excited,” he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/poli...-of-ottawa-neighbourhood/article4490952/
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2012, 4:50 PM
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Originally Posted by citizen j View Post
I think there needs to be at least one of the following included in that list of attractions:
1. a bungalow with a car port
2. a scenic parkway with no on- or off-ramps or other access points except at either end (which would both be government buildings)
3. a series of bilingual cartoons explaining the joys of the Metric System
Could we add a monument to Participaction to that list?
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 21, 2012, 6:17 PM
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I used to 'Participact'.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 3:33 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Ottawa needs like $10 billion for transportation improvements. Somehow that money needs to be found...would city residents approve a sales tax?
It's Ottawa, ancestral home of the Cheapskate, where everyone wants everything, as long as someone else pays for it.

So: no.
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 3:35 AM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Could we add a monument to Participaction to that list?
And Binkley and Doinkle, OBVIOUSLY:

http://www.retrontario.com/most-wanted/
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 2:14 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
East end gets the shaft, as usual.

Too bad the Montreal-Rideau corridor won't see real transit any time this century.
Yep. I've been living in the East end since '04 (Vanier and now Beacon Hill). The 12 has become such a disaster in rush hour since it's never on time and often full. OC Transpo insist on using lots 40 foot buses on that route too.
I'm a strong supporter of having a subway or tram or something in that corridor.

I mostly gave up on OC Transpo last year and I rode my bicycle through the winter. It's faster to get to my job in Gatineau by bicycle 95% of the time versus public transit. Only a massive snow storm made the bus a better (ie. safer) choice.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 2:27 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Originally Posted by gjhall View Post
Front Page of the Globe:

Federal government gets in on condo action with overhaul of Ottawa neighbourhood
Woohoo! Just what we need, more one bedroom condos...

I have nothing against condos and vertical density but it seems the trend is always small units and the few larger units are not very affordable.

How about building affordable units for families? (You know, people with 2 or 3 kids.) As much as I dislike the suburbs it seems it will be the only place I can afford when I purchase my first home in the near future.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 3:14 PM
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How about building affordable units for families?
you either pay through your mortgage or pay through your taxes; we don't get anything for free.
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 3:40 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
Woohoo! Just what we need, more one bedroom condos...

I have nothing against condos and vertical density but it seems the trend is always small units and the few larger units are not very affordable.

How about building affordable units for families? (You know, people with 2 or 3 kids.) As much as I dislike the suburbs it seems it will be the only place I can afford when I purchase my first home in the near future.
There are many of those types of condos around in the city. Building after building of them was built in the 70's. They offer much better value than the flashy new developments and considerably more space. Things like parking are also included (sometimes even multiple spaces).

It just entails that you have to get over the idea that everything is shinny and new. The unit might need a coat of paint and bathroom reno, but in the end you end up with a large 2 or three bedroom unit in a complex with many amenities for much less cost than the tiny one bedroom in a flashy new complex. (even counting reno and upgrade costs)

Most new condos are priced much more to do with market demand rather than construction costs.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 4:04 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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you either pay through your mortgage or pay through your taxes; we don't get anything for free.
True, but real estate prices just keep going up and up. My salary has not increased 5%-10% a year like the house prices have. How is a first time buyer like myself supposed to afford a house in such a market?

Sorry about the thread drift.

As for small condos, are the builders banking on all the boomers downsizing into them after their retirements? That's kind of risky. The boomers in my family are moving further away from the urban area.
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 4:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
True, but real estate prices just keep going up and up. My salary has not increased 5%-10% a year like the house prices have. How is a first time buyer like myself supposed to afford a house in such a market?
it's bloody tough; savings aren't growing either so the amount you'd need for a down payment also keeps pulling away from you on that escalator. Without help from family, I don't know how anyone is supposed to afford the purchase of their first home. The payments should be easy with interest rates as low as they are, but getting that 10% (and forget about 20 to avoid the CMHC insurance) just gets harder and harder. Like c_speed said, older condos might already be good value, and they will only get (relatively) more affordable as the supply of pricey new units keeps increasing, making a tired-looking unit in a frumpy building less attractive to many other buyers.

An exercise we did before we bought was to imagine your average buyer, and think of what sort of things they would be looking for (and therefore be making scarce and prciey) and to try to look for the opposite: everyone wants granite? look for laminate! Hardwood's the best, so please show me someplace with nasty old wall-to-wall! etc. It's sort of putting the advice from those Home Staging shows on its head, where you try and make your place look as appealing as possible to the (dumb) people who would otherwise get turned off by the wrong paint colour, or a cupboard that doesn't close or (my personal favourite) ugly furniture and kitschy decorations that the homeowner would throw out or take with them (!) and a few inexpensive fixes can dramatically increase the number of potential buyers. Whereas, if you're a buyer, you want to minimize the number of competitors (other potential buyers), and I think that being a little handy and able to see past some cosmetic challenges can help with this... but this just helps at the margin, you still need a damn big (and growing) lump sum for that down payment!

UPDATE: and with impeccable timing, Darwin is talking about exactly this kind of stuff over at his place today: http://westsideaction.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/when-condos-replace-offices/
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 4:55 PM
S-Man S-Man is offline
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There are many of those types of condos around in the city. Building after building of them was built in the 70's.
I know. George and Wheezy moved into one with their son Lionel. I believe it was a deluxe model, though.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 4:58 PM
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UPDATE: and with impeccable timing, Darwin is talking about exactly this kind of stuff over at his place today: http://westsideaction.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/when-condos-replace-offices/
Alt logo on front door. Hope you don't mind, I'll post your quote on the "The Slater" thread.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 6:42 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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it's bloody tough...[/i]
The down-payment is certainly the tough part if you don't get lucky with a significant influx of cash.

When I buy my first home I don't plan on moving out any time soon afterwards. I hate moving. Since I'd be living there for at least a decade or longer I have no objections to buying a cosmetic fixer. That's what my parents did with their 3rd house. They bought a run-downed foreclosure in Alta Vista in '87 for cheap and slowly renovated it over the following 6 years. I learned a lot about construction through that process. My mom sold it in '04 after everyone else had moved out. Right now I'm renting a 950sqft townhouse with an unfinished basement. Space wise this is actually pretty good for a family of 4. Maybe throw in a 2nd bathroom and we'd be pretty happy with that. A fixer means we get to make it our own.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 22, 2012, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
Woohoo! Just what we need, more one bedroom condos...

I have nothing against condos and vertical density but it seems the trend is always small units and the few larger units are not very affordable.

How about building affordable units for families? (You know, people with 2 or 3 kids.) As much as I dislike the suburbs it seems it will be the only place I can afford when I purchase my first home in the near future.
That's all well and good, but let's look at the stats (http://www.ottawa.ca/en/city_hall/statisticsdata/statistics/census/ottawa/index.html):

Total number of private households by household size
1 person 88,075
2 persons 104,645
3 persons 51,445
4 to 5 persons 68,675
6 or more persons 8,050

Average number of persons in private households: 2.5

Of the 321,100 total dwellings in Ottawa, 27% have only 1 resident, 33% have only 2 residents. So a full 60% of all residences have 2 or less people.

So, while there's always a need to keep families in the core and provide housing choice, that choice it seems to me, ought to include options for the MAJORITY of households that are not large enough to require "family sized" homes in whatever format.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2012, 12:38 AM
kevinbottawa kevinbottawa is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
And Binkley and Doinkle, OBVIOUSLY:

http://www.retrontario.com/most-wanted/
Ahhhh! This website brings back memories. I'd never seen it before.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2012, 1:09 AM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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That's all well and good, but let's look at the stats (http://www.ottawa.ca/en/city_hall/statisticsdata/statistics/census/ottawa/index.html):

Total number of private households by household size
1 person 88,075
2 persons 104,645
3 persons 51,445
4 to 5 persons 68,675
6 or more persons 8,050

Average number of persons in private households: 2.5

Of the 321,100 total dwellings in Ottawa, 27% have only 1 resident, 33% have only 2 residents. So a full 60% of all residences have 2 or less people.

So, while there's always a need to keep families in the core and provide housing choice, that choice it seems to me, ought to include options for the MAJORITY of households that are not large enough to require "family sized" homes in whatever format.
Interesting numbers.

I'd be curious to see those numbers correlated against these:
Single-detached house 138,900
Semi-detached house 17,930
Row house 61,525
Apartment, duplex 6,260
Apartment, building that has five or more storeys 60,880
Apartment, building that has fewer than five storeys 34,100
Other single-attached house 620
Movable dwelling 800

Makes me wonder just how many singles and couples (with no kids or kids moved out) live in 3-4 bedroom houses?
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2012, 1:55 PM
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There would have to be lots.

Putting Shaun's numbers with Geoff's for some fun with maths and estimation:

- We have a total of ~200K houses (detached, semis and rows) and less 130K households of 3+ people in the city.

- Since not all of those families would live in one of the three kinds of houses, the number could easily be 100K households of 2 or fewer people living in houses, representing a good 150K people .

- Given the makeup of Ottawa's housing stock, I'd say that easily half of those people could be living in the detached houses that Shaun is curious about.

As this thread continues to drift aimlessly away from TP (sic), perhaps we could rename it "Tunney's Pasture Redevelopment and Musings on the Nature of Housing in Canadian Cities, with an emphasis on Ottawa"? ;-)

Last edited by McC; Aug 23, 2012 at 2:25 PM.
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