Atlanta Project Thread IV

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Inman Parker

We're going to have to agree to disagree. Did you really just compare lenox mall to the Eiffel tower and the white house?

Somehow I knew that's what you would get out of what I said. The answer is no, but maybe you should re-read my post. I don't feel like explaining it to you.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Inman Parker

I am well aware of the project list. I was addressing the fact that many wont vote for the list because they feel that the suburban transit needs arent being met, while in my opinion we need to build the core of the city's transit/overall infrastructure before we start building trains to bring people into the central atlanta area.

That was my point...the project list includes improvements to the city's transit. It certainly isn't just about trains bringing people into the central city. That's why I suggested that you familiarize yourself with it rather than make such statements.

[Inman Parker]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Somehow I knew that's what you would get out of what I said. The answer is no, but maybe you should re-read my post. I don't feel like explaining it to you.

What makes Lenox "iconic"? What makes it different than Tyson's corner, Aventura, King of Prussia? If you were to visit DC, Miami or Philly, would you make sure to go to those malls? Would you be more likely to visit Tyson's corner or Georgetown if you were to visit DC? I am not trying to say that lenox isnt a good mall or an asset to the city; I am just making the point that it is strange to build high rises and condos around a mall in a city the size of Atlanta.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by Inman Parker

What makes Lenox "iconic"? What makes it different than Tyson's corner, Aventura, King of Prussia? If you were to visit DC, Miami or Philly, would you make sure to go to those malls? Would you be more likely to visit Tyson's corner or Georgetown if you were to visit DC? I am not trying to say that lenox isnt a good mall or an asset to the city; I am just making the point that it is strange to build high rises and condos around a mall in a city the size of Atlanta.

It's only strange to Inman Parker...your disdain for anything outside of central Atlanta is noted.

I'm not a shopper, so I don't go to ANY malls unless it can't be avoided. But someone who loves to shop would definitely go to the landmark mall of whatever city he's visiting. Remember, just because you don't like it or you don't do it doesn't mean it's universal. Some people go to Georgetown, others prefer Tyson's Corner...personal preference.

I don't care to argue this point with you any further. I've made my point.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by Inman Parker

What makes Lenox "iconic"? What makes it different than Tyson's corner, Aventura, King of Prussia? If you were to visit DC, Miami or Philly, would you make sure to go to those malls? Would you be more likely to visit Tyson's corner or Georgetown if you were to visit DC? I am not trying to say that lenox isnt a good mall or an asset to the city; I am just making the point that it is strange to build high rises and condos around a mall in a city the size of Atlanta.

While it may not be "iconic" to you personally, one glaring difference compared to Tyson's, Aventura and KOP is that it actually WITHIN the core city of the the region it happens to serve. It is also the only one of the 3 you mention that is in the heart of a true corporate/hotel/dense residential area that also happens to be connected to two heavy rail stations. This is obviously about to change for Tyson's when it comes to rail, but Tyson's will be a suburban clusterf*ck for years to come - with or without metro service to D.C. Also, consider the many thousands of upscale hotel rooms that cluster around it - you certainly don't see that at any of the other 3, by a LONG shot.

As someone who commutes daily on the Gold line from Brookhaven to Downtown, I can't tell you how many times I've met tourists/conventioneers from around the globe on their way there. Add in the fact that the the three anchors also happen to be the regional flagships for their respective chains, there is an upscale highrise hotel, a class A office tower attached AND a waiting list for tenants.

You may not like it, but hundreds of thousands of us are personally glad it's there and not in some distant suburb like the other 3 you compare it to.

[Inman Parker]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

While it may not be "iconic" to you personally, one glaring difference compared to Tyson's, Aventura and KOP is that it actually WITHIN the core city of the the region it happens to serve. It is also the only one of the 3 you mention that is in the heart of a true corporate/hotel/dense residential area that also happens to be connected to two heavy rail stations. This is obviously about to change for Tyson's when it comes to rail, but Tyson's will be a suburban clusterf*ck for years to come - with or without metro service to D.C. Also, consider the many thousands of upscale hotel rooms that cluster around it - you certainly don't see that at any of the other 3, by a LONG shot.

As someone who commutes daily on the Gold line from Brookhaven to Downtown, I can't tell you how many times I've met tourists/conventioneers from around the globe on their way there. Add in the fact that the the three anchors also happen to be the regional flagships for their respective chains, there is an upscale highrise hotel, a class A office tower attached AND a waiting list for tenants.

You may not like it, but hundreds of thousands of us are personally glad it's there and not in some distant suburb like the other 3 you compare it to.

I dont hate Buckhead/lenox and Im glad that its not in Acworth too. I must be doing a poor job of making my point.

IMO, Tyson's and Buckhead are extremely similar and both have terrible infrastructure. Tyson's is 12 miles from central DC and Buckhead is 8 from downtown Atlanta. In my opinion that isnt that much of a difference. The biggest difference between them to me is that Tyson's is developing because of DC's density, while Buckhead is being built up for other reasons that I dont understand. That is where my questioning comes in. Why are we putting our resources to building up Buckhead? Why Buckhead? There are vacant lots all over midtown and downtown. Why did we build all those hotels you speak of in Buckhead to begin with? Is it a commute thing? A safety thing? I really just dont understand. It seems to me like Atlanta would be a lot easier place to deal with if things were more centralized, which includes things like policing, transportation, and overall quality of life.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by Inman Parker

What makes Lenox "iconic"? What makes it different than Tyson's corner, Aventura, King of Prussia? If you were to visit DC, Miami or Philly, would you make sure to go to those malls? Would you be more likely to visit Tyson's corner or Georgetown if you were to visit DC? I am not trying to say that lenox isnt a good mall or an asset to the city; I am just making the point that it is strange to build high rises and condos around a mall in a city the size of Atlanta.

The answer to your question of what makes Lenox "iconic" is the following:
1. Lenox Square has the flagship Pottery Barn store which carries every item in their catalogue. I'm not sure if any or too many other stores can make that claim. The basement of their store has items for the home like bath vanities, marble countertops that you won't see in a mall.
2. Macy's flagship store for the southeast is there, too.
3. The only Bloomingdale's in the southeast (outside of FL) is an anchor. The Perimeter store couldn't make it.
4. Crate and Barrel just built a large free standing store indicating their bullishness on that location.

I don't even live near Lenox and wish my neighborhod mall, Cumberland, had better offerings. However, I have to acknowledge that Lenox Square is the grandaddy of retail in the southeast and is a major attraction along with Phipps Plaza for out of town visitors, particularly conventioners. Let's be honest, since MACY's closed their store on Peachtree, Downtown Atlanta offfers nothing in the way of retail for those attending convetntions at the GWCCC. Even Atlantic Station with its mediocre Dillards is not a strong draw.

Also, you ask why build condos around the mall? Those living in those condos have a completely walkable city at their doorstep. Not only do they have Lenox to walk to, they can also walk to Publix, Target, Filene's Basement, Phipps Plaza as well as the many restaurants in that area. Plus many can walk to work in the many high rise office buildings or walk to the MARTA station to get to work elsewhere.

Let's face it, the Lenox Square area offers the only true city expereience in Atlanta like one would see along Chicago's Magnificent Mile, Seattle's Fifth Avenue or New York's Fifth Avenue where high end retail, office and residential are all concentrated together.

[atlantaguy]

^Bingo!

[RudyJK]

"Why did we build all those hotels you speak of in Buckhead to begin with?"

WE did not build those hotels.

The owners of The Ritz- Carlton, Marriott, W, and all the others did. And they did it to make money because that is where people want to stay. Why is that so hard to understand?

[joecool]

So... back to construction. Skyhouse is adding its crown. That junk went up FAST!!!

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by joecool

So... back to construction. Skyhouse is adding its crown. That junk went up FAST!!!

despite your comment (and i do agree about the architecural style), i notice a MARKED difference in the construction quality between the hotel that's going up on the corner of 10th and williams and the skyhouse.

skyhouse:


hotel:


the skyhouse, although not very pretty, is made out of solid materials that will last for years— the hilton, although it has a concrete core to the building, the walls and every other architectural element appears to be made out of plywood and drywall. that thing will look like crap in 20 years and will need a major renovation, while the skyhouse will be fine for a long time.

[joecool]

I meant junk as in a slang term. Not meaning I think it is actual junk. Get with it... lol

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by joecool

I meant junk as in a slang term. Not meaning I think it is actual junk. Get with it... lol

i figured so but wanted to find a reason to point it out anyway

what do you think, though? i'm just posting what i've observed from street level.

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

despite your comment (and i do agree about the architecural style), i notice a MARKED difference in the construction quality between the hotel that's going up on the corner of 10th and williams and the skyhouse.

the skyhouse, although not very pretty, is made out of solid materials that will last for years— the hilton, although it has a concrete core to the building, the walls and every other architectural element appears to be made out of plywood and drywall. that thing will look like crap in 20 years and will need a major renovation, while the skyhouse will be fine for a long time.

But good Lord that parking deck! I'd hate to see what would get built if we didn't have a DRC process.

[joecool]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

i figured so but wanted to find a reason to point it out anyway

what do you think, though? i'm just posting what i've observed from street level.

I agree. But I am really not liking the parking deck. They could have at least added some street level retail or something... sigh

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by joecool

I agree. But I am really not liking the parking deck. They could have at least added some street level retail or something... sigh

That parking deck is god awful. The only thing helping me accept it is that it on the western edge of midtown, with the couple surrounding blocks lacking large amounts of residential, and that awful westwood college building directly across from it. I appreciate that the building will have at least some retail, and with that and 77 12th it will add a large amount of people right there. Hopefully in the future some guidelines will prevent anything like that from appearing, but I'm able to accept this one considering current conditions in the immediate area. Plus I like the way the Skyhouse glass is turning out, haha.

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by smArTaLlone

But good Lord that parking deck! I'd hate to see what would get built if we didn't have a DRC process.

turn in a circle on this streetview:

http://goo.gl/maps/Bzh9

parking decks as far as the eye can see.

as for the deck— does it actually *front* spring street? for some reason i thought there was space in front of the deck for future development!

[smArTaLlone]

Originally Posted by bryantm3

turn in a circle on this streetview:

http://goo.gl/maps/Bzh9

parking decks as far as the eye can see.

as for the deck— does it actually *front* spring street? for some reason i thought there was space in front of the deck for future development!

Well thats exactly the point. We have examples of how NOT to build a city just a few blocks away. Why are we still doing this?

[smArTaLlone]

Banyan Investment Group, in partnership with DeBartolo Development LLC, in late July purchased the Days Inn at 300 Spring St. for an undisclosed amount. The team plans to pour around $25 million into the 3.1-acre property. They hope to reopen it as a 242-room Aloft in summer 2013.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print-edition/2012/07/27/downtown-getting-hip-hotel.html

[bryantm3]

oh have y'all heard about the hotel midtown being turned into a hyatt? i haven't seen any renderings yet.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...-hotel-planned-for-midtown.html?page=all