ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[mSeattle]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

SUMMARY: In 2010 the Assembly districts were redrawn so the majority of the seats are from the metro area. This takes power away from the traditionally dominant rural areas: Republicans. This shift to city living is what put transit on the ballot ASAP. If we say "NO" this year the pressure to do it ASAP will still be there and we'll get something much better next year. The Repubs in control wrote a regressive transit bill aimed to take power away from high-density areas and give it to low density areas. YES to density, NO to splost. Please take the time to read my coherent and logical argument before voting on Tuesday, thanks. I will explain Dashboard "grants" below.


FULL: Tsplost spent $10M on PR much of which went to spamming internet forums with pro-splost ideas, of which I concede there are many. This post is about me explaining why I, a progressive intellectual, am deciding to vote NO despite everyone else yelling YES. Here is my argument.

Dollars are fungible. One dollar you don't have to pay is "exceedingly similar to" an extra dollar that you do have. The Feds are about to indirectly give Atlanta a huge amount of money. By moving transit forward two years, that is two more years of taxes collected. That is two less years of overhead associated with the review. That is two years sooner that improvements of surrounding properties will become viable. This is a huge change in the economy of transit in Georgia. This is big money that I am talking about and is the mechanism through which bond offerings become viable. It's not simply speeding the process, it's creating two years of additional revenue.

This is the truth about TSPLOST: The metro area wants transit reform and the rest of the state doesn't. In the 2010 census the Assembly districts were redrawn and now a majority of the state legislators come from the metro area. Now transit is on the ballot. That's it, end of story. The presence of TSPLOST on the ballot is not about democrats and republicans. It is due to the redistricting of the Assembly. If we vote NO and ask for something better, we will get it because the reality of city living now dominates Georgia politics. This is new. That's why things are different now and traditional arguments are less relevant.

This is where the left/right thing comes into play: the Republicans control Georgia and they wrote a regressive republican transit bill. Yes: it is "something." It does contain many things that are great and will work. Despite the positives, I am against it because control of the T-splost funds is totally undemocratic. Whichever good-old-boy controls each county gets one vote regardless of how many people are in that county. Some counties have as much as 5x more people than others. Fulton gets two votes due its huge population; however, when Milton county is reformed (another Republican initiative pending) about a million historic Fulton residents are left with one vote. The people who know how transit should be done tend to live in Fulton county. We want our voice to count the most, not the least.

Look at how this ordeal mirrors the shift in the Assembly. The state is filling with city dwellers while the redundant rural areas see little growth and see their influence wane. Now tsplost is the Republican solution to transit. It farms power out of the dense areas and into the low density areas by removing the democratic element from the voting process. Transit is on the ballot because the regressivists in Georgia are losing power. If we vote NO, the facts that forced action this year will still be in place next year with even greater pressure.

The Republicans have offered us the worst possible deal they could get away with. We should not take the first offer we get. The Republican's hand was forced by the 2010 census, transit supporters have the power now. We need to demand an equitable solution not cheer for the scraps.

Question, would Clayton Co. be in the metro or outside of the metro? The reason I ask is that I know someone in Clayton Co. who had transportation problems trying to get to the north side of Atlanta when the bus service was cut. Towns that I saw in Clayton Co. seemed very low density. Is there fear that low density areas will go for more roads and less or no transit?

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by mSeattle

Question, would Clayton Co. be in the metro or outside of the metro? The reason I ask is that I know someone in Clayton Co. who had transportation problems trying to get to the north side of Atlanta when the bus service was cut. Towns that I saw in Clayton Co. seemed very low density. Is there fear that low density areas will go for more roads and less or no transit?

I'm a little unclear about what your post means. I'll just say that the vote, if passed, allocates $100 million to restore the Clayton County bus service. It is indeed a very important thing for many people who live there.

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by mSeattle

Question, would Clayton Co. be in the metro or outside of the metro? The reason I ask is that I know someone in Clayton Co. who had transportation problems trying to get to the north side of Atlanta when the bus service was cut. Towns that I saw in Clayton Co. seemed very low density. Is there fear that low density areas will go for more roads and less or no transit?

Clayton is the smallest of the 5 core counties of Metro Atlanta, bordering Fulton and Dekalb Counties to the south.

[joecool]

Originally Posted by ChrisInmanPark

Could it possibly be this under construction in the Cumberland area? Not too familiar with that part of town (burbs).

http://atlanta.curbed.com/archives/2012/07/25/riverwood.php

Yeah, I think that is one of them.

[sevensixtwo]

The airport is in Clayton.

[BlindFatSnake]

Go to this site and vote your conscience...

http://www.atlantaregionalrailnow.com/

[Tuckerman]

Reality re TSPLOST

The TSPLOST effort is hardly perfect - in a reasonable world I would go for a better plan, some of the plan Bs are reasonable plans - however I believe the political climate is very hostile to public transit and if the TSPLOST fails we will lose many years before another opportunity arises. I guess this may be ok for those in their teens, but for those of us 50 and older, we will have to go to some other city to ride any comprehensive system before departing on the final train.

[sevensixtwo]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I believe the political climate is very hostile to public transit and if the TSPLOST fails we will lose many years before another opportunity arises.

Why do you believe this? Let's look at the facts. We have needed transit reform for years and it has gotten ignored. Now it is on the ballot. Does that not imply the political climate is now more welcoming to transit than it ever has been before?

People who live in cities favor transit reform (generally.) Why do you think the historic transfer of power from rural Georgia to modern Atlanta (after the 2010 census redistricting) has fostered an anti-transit climate? The fact that transit reform is now starting to receive serious attention should lead one to reasonably conclude that the political climate is historically pro-transit at this time. Since 2011, most Georgia lawmakers are burdened by insufficient transit initiatives in their home districts. Can you explain why this political reality leads you to conclude there is an anti-transit climate? This anti-transit thing is rumor the Repubs are circulating to get us to agree to a shit bill before we realize that the pro-transit crowd is now holding all the cards in the Assembly.

We now stand at the brink of Georgia's future. T-Splost is not a good bill. It does good things for fundraising, but the oversight and control of this huge proposed revenue stream is totally undemocratic. Please see my argument at the top of page 257.

[sevensixtwo]

Originally Posted by BlindFatSnake

Go to this site and vote your conscience...

http://www.atlantaregionalrailnow.com/

Great! Let's wait a little longer before we start compromising with them. We are growing and they are shrinking.

LEAVE ATLANTA TIED A LITTLE LONGER

[TarHeelJ]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

Great! Let's wait a little longer before we start compromising with them. We are growing and they are shrinking.

LEAVE ATLANTA TIED A LITTLE LONGER

Hell no...I for one am tired of waiting. Let's do something about it now!

[Tuckerman]

I expect the TSPLOST will be defeated Tuesday. I sincerely hope the optimists among you who think we will turn to a plan B, or a better solution, are correct. I have serious doubts about the wisdom of waiting for another option. For one, I think many observers from outside the ATL will see this a a retrograde step and will pull back on any investment in the future of the city. Conservatives will see this as a victory for the small government, anti-tax movement. The plan B hopefuls will be relegated to the political sidelines. It will be at least a decade before another plan is developed. Let's hope I am wrong.

[sevensixtwo]

I agree that this will delay investment in transit related development. I feel like we need the best possible foundation on which to to build Atlanta's transit future. T-Splost is a poor excuse; we can do better. Capitalize on the defeat and roll out a refined transit reform plan based on the current the Dashboard grants and the new composition of the Assembly. +Beltline +Atlanta

[Frankster87]

Long time reader of the Atlanta Construction thread, first time poster. For anyone who actually believes that plan B will be better for transit; please watch the below segment from 11 Alive.

http://www.11alive.com/News/politics/247801/12/Plan-B-is-a-speculative-question-if-TSPLOST-fails

[Tuckerman]

Originally Posted by Frankster87

Long time reader of the Atlanta Construction thread, first time poster. For anyone who actually believes that plan B will be better for transit; please watch the below segment from 11 Alive.

http://www.11alive.com/News/politics/247801/12/Plan-B-is-a-speculative-question-if-TSPLOST-fails

I suggest we go for plan "D" which will occur in the Distant future when the Green party is the majority in the State Legislature.

[bigstick]

Originally Posted by TarHeelJ

Hell no...I for one am tired of waiting. Let's do something about it now!

I agree, I am getting old, can't wait any longer............

[ATLaffinity]

Originally Posted by sevensixtwo

I agree that this will delay investment in transit related development. I feel like we need the best possible foundation on which to to build Atlanta's transit future. T-Splost is a poor excuse; we can do better. Capitalize on the defeat and roll out a refined transit reform plan based on the current the Dashboard grants and the new composition of the Assembly. +Beltline +Atlanta

"In the long run, we are all dead." -Keynes

The most charitable thing I can say about your argument is that it's naive.

There's no Plan B. There never will be. Businesses will go elsewhere. College grads will go elsewhere.

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by Tuckerman

I expect the TSPLOST will be defeated Tuesday. I sincerely hope the optimists among you who think we will turn to a plan B, or a better solution, are correct. I have serious doubts about the wisdom of waiting for another option. For one, I think many observers from outside the ATL will see this a a retrograde step and will pull back on any investment in the future of the city. Conservatives will see this as a victory for the small government, anti-tax movement. The plan B hopefuls will be relegated to the political sidelines. It will be at least a decade before another plan is developed. Let's hope I am wrong.

Alas, I am of this mindset too. It's going to fail, and no other plan of any sort will come along for a long time, and Atlanta will be derided nationwide for its failure to mount any sort of plan to address our transportation problems. It will be used rightly or wrongly to Atlanta's economic disadvantage for many years to come.

[desbaratto]

Originally Posted by SteveD

Alas, I am of this mindset too. It's going to fail, and no other plan of any sort will come along for a long time, and Atlanta will be derided nationwide for its failure to mount any sort of plan to address our transportation problems. It will be used rightly or wrongly to Atlanta's economic disadvantage for many years to come.

I hope that it doesn't fail, while it's not perfect, it's better than nothing. I don't believe that there is an alternative - if there was a viable one, why is it that we only heard about it a week before the vote?

I've grown up in and around Atlanta (moved when I was 1 in 79) and I truly believe that this is one of the most important things in determining whether Atlanta wants to be a big time city or whether it's going to go to sh!t. If this fails - it's going to be a LONG time before anything else comes this way.

[sevensixtwo]

I am not a current member of the the Green Party. I support Kwabena "Cubby" Nkromo for his pioneering work with Atlanta Metro Farms and while serving in NPU-T. The Green Party will be out on election day at the polling stations in Dist 57. Please look for them and sign the ballot access petition. This is not a vote for Nkromo, it is just to put his name on the ballot. Georgia makes it outrageously arduous to get on the ballot without the support of Corporate Party middlemen. If you support open-access, look for the Greens and sign for Cubby Dist 57.

[atlantaguy]

sevensixtwo, please get a DAMN GRIP on reality. However altruistic the Green party may be in your opinion, they have less of a chance here than the KKK does. If this fails, it will be YEARS - if ever, that our absolute fucking joke of a knuckle-dragging legislature makes ANY attempt of revisiting this issue. And, if they do on their own - Lord help us all.

This is our shot - however flawed, of making or breaking our future as a viable, vibrant metro in the perception of the overwhelming opinion of corporate decision makers and the worldwide media. Are you really comfortable with taking that chance to further your extremely marginal agenda?