[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[halifaxboyns]

I have to agree, that's a very good analysis. I also have to agree, get the garage doors off Agricola. I'd be quite happy with it being on Market street. While I hate to sacrific any particular street, given that Grafton will be the pedestrian prominade and Argyle is where we should focus retail (to help get people down into the bar district) - I'd say Market is your only choice.

[someone123]

Market Street is kind of a write off already. In an area with no alleys, the loading bays still have to go somewhere and Market is the best option.

I think P3 gets a lot of misplaced criticism. At the end of the day it can be good or bad depending on the bargaining skills of the parties involved and how they structure their deal. Bad P3 deals of the past weren't bad because they were P3, they were bad because negotiation or planning was poor or corrupt. I would say that the Nova Centre is a pretty good candidate for P3 because a deal like that allows the government to capture some of the added value in industries they do not participate in directly (hotel and office towers).

[Dr SweetLove]

How many different renderings have been produced for the trade center

I know the first ones that kinda looked like the eaton center in t.o....1980ish

And the most recent ones...has there been any I between the two

Also can anyone tell me which pages have the most recent renderings on them so I can view them in a larger size than what is on the header of this thread

Please!! And thank u!!

[halifaxboyns]

Don't forget tonight is the first public consultation meeting for Nova Centre. Details on the Nova Centre website. It will be live streamed too.

[halifaxboyns]

Live streaming from this website:
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/buildyourcentre

[someone123]

Hopefully they will release some more details about the project and some new renderings.

[halifaxboyns]

I suspect that would be engagement later on down the road. This is more about what people think and some thoughts. I would think they would debut changes once this phase is done.

So far the conversation seems to be good - I think those against the project didn't bother to come out because they saw it as a waste of time. *knock on wood*

[CorbeauNoir]

I was very happily surprised to see how many positive remarks there were - perhaps the average Coast readership has left me cynical. I particularly enjoyed Dawn and FRED's comments

[Waye Mason]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

I was very happily surprised to see how many positive remarks there were - perhaps the average Coast readership has left me cynical. I particularly enjoyed Dawn and FRED's comments

Went down... 60-65 people in the room, only 20-25 were civilians, the rest were politicians (edit: and aspirants heh), developers, handlers, media people, public relations people, and various and sundry stakeholders and special interest groups. It was kind of funny.

A lot of impatience... it is being built, so let's get to talking about how the building works with the city around it... 2 hour temperature check was a bit of a waste of time.

[halifaxboyns]

I think people's impatience is more frustration with process. They feel that they should've been involved more in the decision making, but I don't agree with that. Economic Development isn't about public engagement, if that was the case we probably wouldn't have a WTCC now.

As shocking as this may sound - I do agree with Bev Miller (or it may have been Mr. Ruffman). If people are putting their opinions up on post it notes and those opinions don't come back to the next meeting; that is a problem. Even if the meeting is on a different topic, it should be something that people can see and read to help them think of ideas.

I've done a lot of engagement using the world cafe method, but I always bring back to the next sessions the comments from the previous. They help people with understanding what other people are thinking, avoid repetition and can help people think about other things.

I missed Fred's comments, but I did see Dawn's. I rather enjoyed her parting remark about do we want a giant hole in the middle of downtown for another 20 years.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

They feel that they should've been involved more in the decision making, but I don't agree with that. Economic Development isn't about public engagement, if that was the case we probably wouldn't have a WTCC now.

Everybody is caught up in their own small world, whatever it is. You can see it in the Save the View material -- everything is about preservation, to the extent that they think the economics will just fall into place if we follow their advice on building heights. That's not how it works. If the economic concerns were so simple to sort out then every city would have a vibrant, wonderful downtown. The vast majority in North America do not.

I'm sure that there are a thousand constraints and considerations that most people don't even think about when it comes to something like building a convention centre, and it may not even be realistic to enumerate all of them during public consultation.

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I missed Fred's comments, but I did see Dawn's. I rather enjoyed her parting remark about do we want a giant hole in the middle of downtown for another 20 years.

As an aside, isn't Dawn Sloane running for the North End in October? I guess she might have always run as the "Gottingen" councillor had it not been a part of the downtown.

[Keith P.]

I really fail to see the point of this consultation. Why go to places like Sydney and Wolfville to talk about a convention center in DT Halifax? That makes no sense. Then you have the usual types bitching because it doesn't deal with youth program funding cuts, transition houses, affordable housing, whatever the issue du jour of the left is on any given day. They fail to realize that govt funds programs from tax revenues, which comes about as a result of people working for groups other than the govt. So why give these types a platform to denounce growing the economy, something they clearly do not understand? It all strikes me as a large wasted effort.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I really fail to see the point of this consultation. Why go to places like Sydney and Wolfville to talk about a convention center in DT Halifax? That makes no sense.

The point of this is that they will be able to say that they did public consultation (even in the hinterland).

I will consider the process a success if they do not add any sheet metal lighthouses to the project.

[Copes]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I really fail to see the point of this consultation. Why go to places like Sydney and Wolfville to talk about a convention center in DT Halifax? That makes no sense. Then you have the usual types bitching because it doesn't deal with youth program funding cuts, transition houses, affordable housing, whatever the issue du jour of the left is on any given day. They fail to realize that govt funds programs from tax revenues, which comes about as a result of people working for groups other than the govt. So why give these types a platform to denounce growing the economy, something they clearly do not understand? It all strikes me as a large wasted effort.

I can't speak for Sydney, but having grown up in Wolfville, I know a large number of residents who commute to Halifax on a regular basis. My father is in Halifax at least a day or two a week, and my best friend's father carpools every day.

However I see your point. Also worth spreading out provincially because a large portion of funding is coming from the provincial government.

[Northend Nerd]

The next event is tomorrow night at the Seaport Market.

http://www.facebook.com/events/380425428677670/

[beyeas]

Originally Posted by Copes

I can't speak for Sydney, but having grown up in Wolfville, I know a large number of residents who commute to Halifax on a regular basis. My father is in Halifax at least a day or two a week, and my best friend's father carpools every day.

However I see your point. Also worth spreading out provincially because a large portion of funding is coming from the provincial government.

And yet when Pictou got a new rec centre, funded purely with public dollars, they didn't do consultation here in Halifax to get my input. Halifax is treated differently because it is the big bad bogeyman that people love to hate.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by beyeas

And yet when Pictou got a new rec centre, funded purely with public dollars, they didn't do consultation here in Halifax to get my input. Halifax is treated differently because it is the big bad bogeyman that people love to hate.

There's a lot more bitterness in NS than I notice here in BC toward Vancouver. I have also yet to hear the provincial government or anybody in Vancouver apologize for any major investments in the city -- and the province of BC invests far more in Vancouver, even in relative terms. Since I moved here for example the province spent $500M on a stadium overhaul and they have paid for a third or more of two rapid transit lines. Halifax doesn't even have a stadium, and the new bus depot in Dartmouth was considered a huge undertaking. Oh yes, and Vancouver's new convention centre was $883M, of which BC paid $541M. The City of Vancouver paid zip for its convention centre. As far as I know that project did not involve consulting people in Prince George.

We see the same thing on a smaller scale when it comes to downtown Halifax, which supposedly "gets everything" despite being dead last in a study of public investment in Canadian downtowns.

I hope the city and province can move past all this in the coming years. We'll soon be at the point where most people in NS will live in Halifax. The Halifax economy is already about 50% of the NS economy -- it's where a huge share of provincial taxes are collected, and it's the part of NS that relies least on transfers like welfare and EI. If it weren't for Halifax, NS would be screwed.

[q12]

Originally Posted by someone123

There's a lot more bitterness in NS than I notice here in BC toward Vancouver. I have also yet to hear the provincial government or anybody in Vancouver apologize for any major investments in the city -- and the province of BC seems to invest far more in Vancouver, even in relative terms. Since I moved here for example the province spent $500M on a stadium overhaul and they have paid for a third or more of two rapid transit lines. Halifax doesn't even have a stadium, and the new bus depot in Dartmouth was considered a huge ordeal. Oh yes, and Vancouver's new convention centre was $883M, of which BC paid $541M. The City of Vancouver paid zip for its convention centre. As far as I know that project did not involve consulting people in Prince George.

I hope the city and province can move past all this in the coming years. We'll soon be at the point where most people in NS will live in Halifax. The Halifax economy is already about 50% of the NS economy -- it's where a huge share of provincial taxes are collected, and it's the part of NS that relies least on transfers like welfare and EI. If it weren't for Halifax, NS would be screwed.

I agree completely, I think with Halifax's growth, Nova Scotia is becoming more like a Manitoba.

Halifax's population now is roughly 50% of Nova Scotia and Halifax's ecomomic region is probably more like 66% of the population.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by q12

I agree completely, I think with Halifax's growth, Nova Scotia is becoming more like a Manitoba.

It's sad. Halifax is an island of prosperity in a province that is in decline in every way imaginable. One of the things I like about Nova Scotia is that you can't drive more than 20 minutes without hitting a community, town, etc.

At the rate things are going in 50 years the tiny communities under 1,000 people that dot the province will turn into ghost towns. Is the Michelin plant still in operation?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's sad. Halifax is an island of prosperity in a province that is in decline in every way imaginable. One of the things I like about Nova Scotia is that you can't drive more than 20 minutes without hitting a community, town, etc.

I agree.

I'm a strong supporter of the Nova Centre and I appreciate growth and development in HRM, but it's a shame that the whole province (especially Cape Breton) can't share in the prosperity.

In some ways, a Nova Scotia with 75% of the population living in metro Halifax would be a much poorer, less varied and less interesting place......